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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 1, 2017 21:08:14 GMT
I don't recall the Doctor ever telling Polly to dust the TARDIS, but perhaps my memory is off..... I don't think he ever did, but it wouldn't have seemed out of place. The First Doctor reflected the times of the era that he was written in, and people were more chauvinistic back then. This isn't going to be the first time that the show has commented on the fact that One was a bit of a chauvinist. In The Five Doctors. He asked Tegan to make tea (or something like that). Tegan got mad at him, but Five calmed her down by telling Turlough to help her. I expect that there will be a similar moment in Twice Upon a Time, and that is all that Moffat and Bradley are talking about. But, the Doctor, played by William Hartnell, from 63 - 66 was never chauvinistic!
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Post by icecreamdf on Aug 1, 2017 23:04:06 GMT
I don't think he ever did, but it wouldn't have seemed out of place. The First Doctor reflected the times of the era that he was written in, and people were more chauvinistic back then. This isn't going to be the first time that the show has commented on the fact that One was a bit of a chauvinist. In The Five Doctors. He asked Tegan to make tea (or something like that). Tegan got mad at him, but Five calmed her down by telling Turlough to help her. I expect that there will be a similar moment in Twice Upon a Time, and that is all that Moffat and Bradley are talking about. But, the Doctor, played by William Hartnell, from 63 - 66 was never chauvinistic! He was always much more willing to put his male companions in danger than his female ones. His female companions, especially Polly, often ended up making coffee or doing other silly tasks. It just reflects the times the stories were written.
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Post by mrperson on Aug 1, 2017 23:07:31 GMT
I don't recall the Doctor ever telling Polly to dust the TARDIS, but perhaps my memory is off..... I don't think he ever did, but it wouldn't have seemed out of place. The First Doctor reflected the times of the era that he was written in, and people were more chauvinistic back then. This isn't going to be the first time that the show has commented on the fact that One was a bit of a chauvinist. In The Five Doctors. He asked Tegan to make tea (or something like that). Tegan got mad at him, but Five calmed her down by telling Turlough to help her. I expect that there will be a similar moment in Twice Upon a Time, and that is all that Moffat and Bradley are talking about. Oh, it definitely was a chauvanistic era. And certainly, later on, the female companions always inelegantly fell down hills to move the plot along with a stereotypical shriek. I know. But the show also has always been very progressive. And right at the start, you had Barbara. Even though Ian was the stereotypical manly man, she was a strong female character. She didn't take ****.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 1, 2017 23:12:37 GMT
But, the Doctor, played by William Hartnell, from 63 - 66 was never chauvinistic! He was always much more willing to put his male companions in danger than his female ones. His female companions, especially Polly, often ended up making coffee or doing other silly tasks. It just reflects the times the stories were written. When did the First Doctor ever ask Polly to make coffee?
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Post by mark687 on Aug 1, 2017 23:20:43 GMT
Well clearly at some point she's done TARDIS Dusting why not Coffee
Serious answer she offered drinks in Sir Charles house in the War Machines and the Doctor took water fair dos not Coffee
Regards
mark687
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 1, 2017 23:24:57 GMT
Well clearly at some point she's done TARDIS Dusting why not Coffee
Serious answer she offered drinks in Sir Charles house in the War Machines
Regards
mark687 Offering drinks is chauvinistic?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 23:27:55 GMT
I don't think he ever did, but it wouldn't have seemed out of place. The First Doctor reflected the times of the era that he was written in, and people were more chauvinistic back then. This isn't going to be the first time that the show has commented on the fact that One was a bit of a chauvinist. In The Five Doctors. He asked Tegan to make tea (or something like that). Tegan got mad at him, but Five calmed her down by telling Turlough to help her. I expect that there will be a similar moment in Twice Upon a Time, and that is all that Moffat and Bradley are talking about. Oh, it definitely was a chauvanistic era. And certainly, later on, the female companions always inelegantly fell down hills to move the plot along with a stereotypical shriek. I know. But the show also has always been very progressive. And right at the start, you had Barbara. Even though Ian was the stereotypical manly man, she was a strong female character. She didn't take ****. Oh, even Ian had his moments. The bravado came from his National Service, but there were situations where he was completely out of his depth like Edge of Destruction or, hell, even An Unearthly Child. There were great pains made at the beginning to ensure that both Ian and Barbara were portrayed as genuine human beings. It's telling that Barbara and the Doctor gravitated towards one another due to their mutual cunning in The Daleks, while Ian and Susan gravitated together because of their more idealistic moralities. Barbara was the one who pulled a knife on Tlotoxl, shot Sandy when she thought Vicki was in danger and drove straight through a Dalek ambush with a truck. She was as much an action hero as Ian was. If not more so. There's a reason why she's my favourite companion on television.
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Post by mark687 on Aug 1, 2017 23:29:48 GMT
Well clearly at some point she's done TARDIS Dusting why not Coffee
Serious answer she offered drinks in Sir Charles house in the War Machines
Regards
mark687 Offering drinks is chauvinistic? No but Sir Charles could've offered the point is putting women in the domestic/ service role could be considered chauvinistic.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 23:32:20 GMT
Offering drinks is chauvinistic? No but Sir Charles could've offered the point is putting women in the domestic/ service role could be considered chauvinistic.
Regards
mark687
True, but I think genuine chauvanism is stating that they are only good for domestic service. The Moonbase has Polly make the tea, but she also develops the spray that kills the Cybermen. I think it depends greatly on the story. Jo's reactions in The Claws of Axos can be seen as the stereotypical screamer role and in some ways it is, but honestly... The Mind of Evil was something she could handle, I think Ms Grant was well and truly out of her depth with the Axons. I'd be screaming just like her if a hideous tentacled monstrosity materialised out of the wall or a man crumpled before my eyes into a mound of wailing flesh.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 2, 2017 0:08:46 GMT
Offering drinks is chauvinistic? No but Sir Charles could've offered the point is putting women in the domestic/ service role could be considered chauvinistic.
Regards
mark687
But, the First Doctor wasn't!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 6:03:45 GMT
He was always much more willing to put his male companions in danger than his female ones. His female companions, especially Polly, often ended up making coffee or doing other silly tasks. It just reflects the times the stories were written. When did the First Doctor ever ask Polly to make coffee? Well the second doctor did just a few stories later in the Moonbase, and they are all the same person.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 8:34:00 GMT
I don't recall The First Doctor being sexist, having thought about it, although characters around him certainly were. I imagine the 'casual sexism' mentioned won't mean that Bradley's Doctor will come crashing into the scene brandishing a massive spoon, barking "What are these women doing here? Shouldn't they be in the kitchen cooking or something? Mmmm?" - but something rather more subtle. I can't see any sexism being the main thrust of the Christmas special, just a detail.
I could be wrong of course. None of us will know until we've seen it. I do hope, though, that any prejudiced comments from The First Doctor aren't just there so we can then be expected to breath a sigh of relief when Jodie appears at the end and we can all wave a glad goodbye to all those nasty blokes.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 2, 2017 8:58:01 GMT
When did the First Doctor ever ask Polly to make coffee? Well the second doctor did just a few stories later in the Moonbase, and they are all the same person. But, it's the First Doctor in the Christmas Special, not the Second!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 9:07:01 GMT
Well the second doctor did just a few stories later in the Moonbase, and they are all the same person. But, it's the First Doctor in the Christmas Special, not the Second! It's the same person, only a few months age difference.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 2, 2017 9:13:26 GMT
But, it's the First Doctor in the Christmas Special, not the Second! It's the same person, only a few months age difference. You clearly aren't listening, and Moffat is starting a arguement over something that didn't happen!
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Post by mark687 on Aug 2, 2017 9:34:09 GMT
It's the same person, only a few months age difference. You clearly aren't listening, and Moffat is starting a arguement over something that didn't happen! He's only started an argument because your offended by the trait he's chosen to maybe create/ certainly emphasize ask the BBC why they've done it, its probably a 2 minute exchange that's going to be resolved in that instant.
( I Agree there are almost certainly better PR hints and impressions of the EP that could be out in public then this one)
Regards
mark687
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 2, 2017 9:50:07 GMT
You clearly aren't listening, and Moffat is starting a arguement over something that didn't happen! He's only started an argument because your offended by the trait he's chosen to maybe create/ certainly emphasize ask the BBC why they've done it, its probably a 2 minute exchange that's going to be resolved in that instant.
( I Agree there are almost certainly better PR hints and impressions of the EP that could be out in public then this one)
Regards
mark687
So it's the BBC, not Moffat! I've been wrong all those years! Moffat is an innocent as a new born baby!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 10:00:39 GMT
He's only started an argument because your offended by the trait he's chosen to maybe create/ certainly emphasize ask the BBC why they've done it, its probably a 2 minute exchange that's going to be resolved in that instant.
( I Agree there are almost certainly better PR hints and impressions of the EP that could be out in public then this one)
Regards
mark687
So it's the BBC, not Moffat! I've been wrong all those years! Moffat is an innocent as a new born baby! Oh, even babes of the deep forest have ambitions...
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Post by mark687 on Aug 2, 2017 10:03:47 GMT
He's only started an argument because your offended by the trait he's chosen to maybe create/ certainly emphasize ask the BBC why they've done it, its probably a 2 minute exchange that's going to be resolved in that instant.
( I Agree there are almost certainly better PR hints and impressions of the EP that could be out in public then this one)
Regards
mark687
So it's the BBC, not Moffat! I've been wrong all those years! Moffat is an innocent as a new born baby! In this instance yes there's a cultural shift lately where equality issues must be addressed by Drama it seems.
I very much doubt Moffatt on his own has said "well the obvious difference between them is I can make 1st Doctor a chauvinist" without someone else saying "difference in gender views is a hot button topic right now"
Regards
mark687
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 2, 2017 10:23:30 GMT
So it's the BBC, not Moffat! I've been wrong all those years! Moffat is an innocent as a new born baby! In this instance yes there's a cultural shift lately where equality issues must be addressed by Drama it seems.
I very much doubt Moffatt on his own has said "well the obvious difference between them is I can make 1st Doctor a chauvinist" without someone else saying "difference in gender views is a hot button topic right now"
Regards
mark6873
Are you saying Moffat was forced to add that line in the Xmas Special?
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