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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 27, 2018 23:59:29 GMT
Admittedly, this is a low bar, but which was the more engaging mix of S24's own brand of weird.
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Post by Ela on Jul 28, 2018 0:00:20 GMT
You first.
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 28, 2018 0:06:01 GMT
Well, I probably don't need to post here for people to know my opinion on this one But I may as well while I'm here Paradise Towers is easily the better of the two, if only because there are more than only one or two things that are actually good about it. Come to think of it, I actually genuinely enjoyed most of it (but it obviously has its own problems). Delta... just has so many different problems in the plot, character motivation, etc. that make it a really difficult watch - three episodes feels almost like six. Some people lump derision on The Dominators, but they'd be much better off redirecting it here
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 0:52:01 GMT
Paradise Towers is probably the story I remember most fondly from that season. All the components are there, it's just the tone that feels off. Like trying to do The Wire with Clangers. Both are fine, but together, they don't quite work. Here, it feels as though it should look like an Iron Maiden album cover. All punk rock and grunge. Something that Graeme Harper could have made grim and electric. It's got a lot of really nice ideas. I love the idea of the Seventh Doctor inadvertently becoming the head of a street gang and the conlang of the Kangs ("Ice hot.") is kind of endearing. It's a bit like Shakespeare, how it's said can be more important than what's said. The Caretakers as these 1940s film characters dropped right into an 80s dystopia could've been really good, again, with a different tone. You hear about their regulations, you laugh and then you see how seriously they take them and it becomes a bit frightening in how neurotic they are. Guys wound so tight that a sneeze could set them off. And the thing in the basement, which the Chief Caretaker is feeding people to, that could've been a classic Bob Holmes grotesque. It's so close. I think I've mentioned this before, but given a season, it could've easily ended up feeling like The Greatest Show in the Galaxy. In contrast, I can't tell you a word about Delta and the Bannermen. Nothing quite sticks in the head. Kind of ironic really given that it's one of the more serious entries of the season.
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Post by relativetime on Jul 28, 2018 1:06:48 GMT
Paradise Towers for me as well. While I personally believe it's nowhere near as great as most of what we'd get in Seasons 25 and 26, it's actually a decent enough story on its own if you ignore Mel's screaming. Delta and the Bannermen on the other hand borders on being so bad it's good, but ultimately ends up being just sort of forgettable to me, except for a few memorable scenes and moments.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 28, 2018 1:37:59 GMT
I think DATB probably had a bit more merit than all that, but got me there that I'd have to watch it again to tell you why. :-) (And I do seem to dimly recall composing at least one "why Paradise Towers isn't that bad" post before in recent years...)
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Post by newt5996 on Jul 28, 2018 1:42:40 GMT
Easily Paradise Towers as Delta and the Bannermen has barely any story to keep it going. It also just doesn't make logical sense and tries to be taken seriously where Paradise Towers is obviously meant to be satirical.
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 28, 2018 2:45:00 GMT
Well, I probably don't need to post here for people to know my opinion on this one But I may as well while I'm here Paradise Towers is easily the better of the two, if only because there are more than only one or two things that are actually good about it. Come to think of it, I actually genuinely enjoyed most of it (but it obviously has its own problems). Delta... just has so many different problems in the plot, character motivation, etc. that make it a really difficult watch - three episodes feels almost like six. Some people lump derision on The Dominators, but they'd be much better off redirecting it here Oh, and one other thing - there's a scene in The Resurrection of Mars (which I've just come from a re-listen to, and might I add it's BRILLIANT while I'm here) that mirrors one from Delta and the Bannermen. Anyone who's heard/seen these should hopefully know which scene I'm referring to, and Resurrection shows how that sort of thing should be done right, while Delta... just sort of lets it happen without a second thought. If that scene alone had played out differently I reckon Delta... may have given Paradise Towers a run for its money, but it didn't so it doesn't
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Post by Timelord007 on Jul 28, 2018 5:09:12 GMT
Arrrrgggghhh season 24....the pain....mind probe....mind probe, both aren't great, both badly acted, weakly scripted stories it's a toss of a coin Paradise just edges it, had potential to be a interesting intense 4 parter but Richard Briers atrocious over the top acting as the chief caretaker along with the rest of the casts pantomime acting make this story nonsensical bafflegab.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 8:12:53 GMT
Its all very well to try and re-appraise something in retrospect, but consider what it was like at the time of first broadcast.
The show had narrowly avoided cancellation and been forced to jettison its lead actor. They had just 4 stories to relaunch the programme with a new actor, and yet we ended up with the worst run of episodes in the series history. This really was the best they could do. It was embarrassing to watch then and i don't feel they are redeemed 31 years on.
The show got a bit better with the likes of Remembrance, Ghost Light & Fenric, but lets not forget that we owe the wilderness years to this period of the show. For a show going out at 7.30 at night, the likes of Greatest Show in the Galaxy and Happiness Patrol were still more tonally suited to 4.00 in the afternoon kids drama. As fans we tend to be generous and defend the show, but to a big proportion of casual viewers of the show, this period of its history was atrocious.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 9:43:03 GMT
I think series 24 is great fun. There, now we all know where we stand.
Strangely, Paradise Towers and Delta and the Bannermen dovetail each other in a way. The former is a dark story with an over-the-top central performance (Chief Caretaker), the latter a lighter-weight story with a grounded, menacing central performance (Gavrok). But I love them both - entertaining, with some frightening concepts (often smothered in family-friendly production values c/o the insistence of Michael Grade); a dangerous and unpredictable new Doctor, and above all a real sense of carefree fun that had been missing from the show for some time.
Which is best? None of them. Both of them. If pushed, I'd say I prefer Paradise Towers because of its brilliant sense of misplaced, decaying community and setting - but also because it is based on a story by JG Ballard, a writer whose stories I love.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jul 28, 2018 11:46:11 GMT
Still haven't actually seen anything of Season 24 lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 13:20:39 GMT
Can you add a poll to this?
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 28, 2018 13:22:24 GMT
Can you add a poll to this? I could, but in the spirit of S24, I'm not going to do the obvious.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 28, 2018 13:29:57 GMT
"Delta" is more fun, but the comedy secret agents are a week spot and the plot's not strong enough. "Paradise" has a better sense of unity but is a bit too bizarre for my taste (I don't think that Richard Briers is *excessively* over-acting; if Clive Merrison hadn't been *under*acting they might have stood a better comparitor to each other).
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 28, 2018 13:50:55 GMT
Haven't seen Paradise Towers since its original transmission. I actually bought Delta, which is awful.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jul 28, 2018 14:05:08 GMT
Still haven't actually seen anything of Season 24 lol How i envy you.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Jul 28, 2018 17:32:34 GMT
Both are fun. I prefer them to Dragonfire. And prefer all three to Time and the Rani.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 28, 2018 18:06:24 GMT
I found Delta and the Bannermen the more entertaining of the two tbh. Neither was terrible really, but I won't be rushing to watch them again any time soon.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 28, 2018 19:16:02 GMT
Paradise Towers
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