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Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 9, 2018 1:25:38 GMT
Find the cod accents and historical... 'alterations' amusing, or is it just a bit too much to swallow at the Last Chance Saloon?
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Post by glutamodo on Sept 9, 2018 1:29:59 GMT
As an American living somewhere in the "West" I had to look up this serial a few years ago.
I did not hate it. That damn song playing over and over again, okay that was rather un-good. But the story was still decent. and I don't mind taking the time to find the story and watch it.
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Post by Ela on Sept 9, 2018 2:57:58 GMT
I thought it was fairly silly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 6:48:30 GMT
No the gunfighters is really, really funny and great and idc if you think otherwise its in my top 20 at least #Lastchancesaloon4evar
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Post by subconiandreamer on Sept 9, 2018 8:24:12 GMT
It's a fun little bit of historical fluff that is a victim of "received wisdom" from the period where most people couldn't watch these older stories and the idea that it was bad was just kind of taken as fact.
The repetition of the song is a bit much if you're watching episodes back to back, but it was made on the assumption that you'd only be watching one a week so it's hardly the show's fault for that.
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Post by sherlock on Sept 9, 2018 9:24:55 GMT
Saw it on Twitch during the recent airing, I don't see what the problem is. The Ballad is a quite effective narrative device, the characters are reasonably well portrayed and gunfight decently choreographed.
It's not the best Who story ever made, but it's far from the worst.
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Post by omega on Sept 9, 2018 9:31:32 GMT
It's a fun one, and a lighter story than the ones before it. I love the Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon and the novelisation is a brilliant read. Any novelisation written by Donald Cotton is worth reading.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 9, 2018 10:16:58 GMT
I watched it many years ago and wasn't looking forward to it because of the aforementioned "received wisdom" about how terrible it was supposed to be but I was very least toy surprised. I love the framing device of the song and how it's used to mark the passage of time and events, as well as the overall story. Steven and Dodo are a delight, especially when they get roped into entertaining the gang on the piano. It's a different type of story and style of storytelling - slightly - and quite light in tone, until the shootout, obviously, but it doesn't wear out its welcome.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 10:18:28 GMT
It's very fluffy and if you like fluffy, I think you'll get a kick of it. Occupies an hour-and-a-half and doesn't linger. Doc Holliday's the real focus, so the regulars err more towards being bit players in the unfolding events, but they've a nice sense of comedic timing (particularly Peter Purves). My favourite part in the whole story (and the bit I remember the most strongly) has to be the Doctor's bluff in the saloon after his six-shooter goes off and catches a guy in the hand. Something to the tune of -- "I totally meant to do that!" The ending really blindsides you though. Much like The Myth Makers before it, everything veers into the serious for the final ten or fifteen minutes as history takes its established course. I wouldn't say it's a bad story (written or produced), but it hasn't made much of an impression on me. Taps into a particular kind of zeitgeist that never really appealed. That said, if you can find the audiobook, it's something worth listening to for a gruff Shane Rimmer recounting the story as Holliday in first-person.
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Post by omega on Sept 9, 2018 10:27:17 GMT
I watched it many years ago and wasn't looking forward to it because of the aforementioned "received wisdom" about how terrible it was supposed to be but I was very least toy surprised. I love the framing device of the song and how it's used to mark the passage of time and events, as well as the overall story. Steven and Dodo are a delight, especially when they get roped into entertaining the gang on the piano. It's a different type of story and style of storytelling - slightly - and quite light in tone, until the shootout, obviously, but it doesn't wear out its welcome. Don't forget Mr Werp! Of course a dentist who advertises with a giant tooth might not be entirely legit. Identity shenanigans may occur.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 10:46:06 GMT
I wouldn't say The Gunfighters was bad. Sure, it won't go down as a classic Doctor Who story, but I thought it was a bit of light-hearted fun. Of course, some people don't like things that are too different, but it was ok to watch and it certainly made me laugh a few times. (I wouldn't be in a rush to watch it again anytime soon though.)
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Post by constonks on Sept 9, 2018 11:07:24 GMT
It's probably in the bottom five Hartnell serials IMO. But there are some good moments here and there. I like the bit with the TARDIS crew being forced to sing as well as the absurdity of the Doctor - a well-travelled man who can go anywhere and do anything - choosing the wild west for dentistry.
As for the two things that everyone talks about in this story: The American accents are charmingly terrible but, yeah, the song is annoying and comes on a few too many times. Granted I'm sure I watched it all at once so that's a lot of Last Chance Saloon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 11:34:33 GMT
I love The Gunfighters.
We are approaching the story retrospectively, and our views are shaped by the reputation it had for being 'not very good'. This seems to have stemmed from inaccurate reports that it received the lowest ever ratings for the show for many years. If its reputation was stellar, would we have a thread entitled ' The Gunfighters - really that good?'
For me, it expertly shifts from lightness of tone to a definite darkness, and the performances reflect that. William Hartnell demonstrates some great comic timing, and although this Doctor is a long way from the dangerous curmudgeon from his early stories, he is still brilliant (my favourite Doctor, don't you know). The only problem I have with this really, is the plethora of bad American accents from some - not all - of the cast. As a Brit, I can look beyond that and enjoy the story for what it is.
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Post by number13 on Sept 9, 2018 15:50:13 GMT
Howdy pardners! I know this old yarn of the Doctor has a bad reputation you wouldn’t give to a mangy prairie dawg, but it ain’t justified. ('I don't want you falling prey to every cliché about the Wild West!' Quite right, Doctor, I'll stop now! )
I love 'The Gunfighters' right from the opening shot of 'Tombstone' as 'The Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon' starts up for the first time (of what will be about 5000 reprises, but I still like it and it ties the story together well.)
It shifts from a first episode that's near-comedy to a brutal climax; the infamous gunfight is filmed very well, but it's as a comedy that I always remember this story. William Hartnell sparkles at the comedy as he always did, Peter Purves makes a brilliant 'tenderfoot dude' in Steven's 'glam cowboy' outfit and Jackie Lane has a good story as Dodo is written with some character and wits about her. And the guest cast do a great job of making a budget Western in typically good BBC sets.
(I'm also mighty fond of the audiobook of Mister Donald Cotton's novelisation, performed by Mister Shane Rimmer (who, as you good folks all surely know, played hired gun Seth ‘Snake-Eyes’ Harper back in the old days.) Here he's Ned Buntline, gen-u- ine journalist of the 1880s in the Old Wild West, with a story to tell about the time he interviewed 'Doc' Holliday. And it was from him that he got the true story of the O.K. Corral and the other doctor, with the aid of a few bottles of whiskey in the cause of recollection. Mister Rimmer's reading is a fine performance indeed, though I seen some few as don’t share that opinion. Fair enough, this ain’t Tombstone in the old days, so I won’t be issuing no invites to a meeting at High Noon for them as don’t agree. )
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Post by barnabaslives on Sept 9, 2018 16:35:59 GMT
The American accents are charmingly terrible I don't know if I'd go quite that far, maybe just terrible? I rather enjoy it otherwise (and I'm very glad we can even watch any of it). Might have been more interesting if, say, Doc Holliday had been replaced by a Dalek, but it ain't half bad.
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Post by mrperson on Sept 9, 2018 17:05:31 GMT
I hate that song. Ugh.
It was a bit silly, as people said. Meh.
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Post by Ela on Sept 9, 2018 17:54:14 GMT
Yeah, I still think it was silly.
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Post by number13 on Sept 9, 2018 18:45:49 GMT
Yeah, I still think it was silly.
Fast forward 50 years and I also loved 'Robot of Sherwood' for the same reason (and I know, I'm in a minority with both stories ) I'm all for creepy Gothic Who and space adventure Who and serious historical Who but just sometimes I like silly Who very much!
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Post by Ela on Sept 9, 2018 23:18:28 GMT
Yeah, I still think it was silly. Fast forward 50 years and I also loved 'Robot of Sherwood' for the same reason (and I know, I'm in a minority with both stories ) I'm all for creepy Gothic Who and space adventure Who and serious historical Who but just sometimes I like silly Who very much!
I loved Robot of Sherwood. And I don't equate that with The Gunfighters at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 0:11:48 GMT
I've been scratching around trying to see where the reputation initially came from and I think it's from criticism at the time it was initially broadcast. I have to wonder if audiences watching The Gunfighters in the 1960s after the boom of Westerns in the previous decade -- Gunsmoke, Maverick, The Rifleman, Trackdown, Have Gun - Will Travel, Tombstone Territory, The Life and Legend of Wyatt Erp, etc. -- were just feeling a bit tired of the genre in general. Particularly given how much the Erps seemed to always make an appearance in one show or another. I know I felt the same way after the nth zombie film/television series in the late 00s/early 10s(?), but looking back on the craze, they're not bad stories. Just that the idea became a bit oversaturated at the time. The War Machines has a similar reputation for trying to mimic the success of the Daleks, but it tends to get out better as it unintentionally prototypes (proto-prototypes?) a lot of the stuff we'd see later from the UNIT stories. Yeah, I still think it was silly. Fast forward 50 years and I also loved 'Robot of Sherwood' for the same reason (and I know, I'm in a minority with both stories ) I'm all for creepy Gothic Who and space adventure Who and serious historical Who but just sometimes I like silly Who very much!
Oh, I'm always on board for a bit of Erol Flynn-style swashbuckling.
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