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Post by tuigirl on Oct 8, 2018 15:41:06 GMT
Because this thought just came to me while writing in another thread.
I do not know if you have noticed this as strongly as I have when looking around my social media feed, the general internet and as well as this very forum here.
I am amazed how Jodi Whittaker's first episode has gained such a momentum that people who swore they would not want anything to do with it, now want to give it a chance.
It is like a positive wave, washing over my social media feed and I honestly and truly had not expected this. Even some youtube ranters have slightly changed their tune.
I find this surprising to say the least and cannot really explain this phenomenon.
Yes, the first episode was very good, but it was not perfect by a long shot.
It certainly was not the best episode of the New Series nor the best first episode for an actor.
What has happened? Is it the current political climate? Morbid curiosity? Another Russian Facebook campaign? Alien mind control? (some of these are tongue in cheek in case you were wondering)
Whatever the show's creators are doing (on purpose or otherwise), something went HORRIBLY RIGHT I guess.
Will this continue? Or will the mood change or even reverse? We will see I guess...
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 8, 2018 15:52:14 GMT
This isn't that uncommon when in geek spheres.
Everyone freaked when they made Mrs Beakley buff in the new Ducktales. Now, it's the internet's favourite new cartoon.
Everyone freaked when they redesigned the ponies in the new MLP. It became a phenomena.
Everyone thought Orville would suck because it's cool to hate on Seth Macfarlane. Now, people say it the best 'Star Trek' thing in years, and better than the official Trek movies and shows of late.
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Post by stcoop on Oct 8, 2018 15:52:26 GMT
Most people aren't completely closeminded and I always suspected that whatever thoughts they might have got in their heads about what the change would mean, most people would just need to see that it's still the same series it ever was and then they'd get over it.
There'll always be those who won't but in a lot of those cases their issues go well beyond female Doctor's.
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Post by fingersmash on Oct 8, 2018 16:09:26 GMT
All of the above, but I'd also like to say one more thing:
The show said it didn't need to prove the female Doctor and followed up on that statement by not saying she was the Female Doctor, but just the Doctor. All of that wrapped up in a lovely, positive, warm family dynamic forming between The Doctor, a grumpy but kind granddad, and two rambunctious teens.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 8, 2018 16:36:50 GMT
Yes, I agree to all of that- but I got the impression this whole change in attitute was massive (we are talking about millions here) and it nearly took a close to a 180 degree turn from a VERY toxic landscape to something now barely breathable.
Is this just people being feeble minded? Or easily swayed? I do not believe so, not after spending some time on the internet in the current climate of "us or them".
And yes, I agree about the Orville- being a Trekkie, I followed this quite closely and I actually LOVED it (but I was also willing to give McFarlane a chance since my previous flatmates won me over to his type of humour in his NSFW cartoon shows). We even had heated discussions in our local geek group (we meet once a month for a meal and beer).
But to be honest, the Orville situation appeared to me to never be on the same scale to what has happened last night with Doctor Who.
Or am I just looking into the wrong corners? Or am I just not seeing what I do not want to see because of my emotional attachment?
I am not sure, not when looking at those viewing figures.
For me, this came completely out of left field.
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Post by jasonward on Oct 8, 2018 17:35:15 GMT
It certainly was not the best episode of the New Series nor the best first episode for an actor.
What has happened? I can answer your question by pointing at the point I singled out. I disagree, for me that was the best episode of the New Series and by far the best first episode for any Doctor. Am I right? Are you right? Both of us, neither of us. It's all a matter of opinion, and clearly for many this episode was better than they expected. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 18:09:05 GMT
This was a case of could this work with a female Doctor?They have proved it can.
And unless the writers come up with a totally plausible explanation for the sex change regeneration I will still have doubts at back of my mind about it and am entitled to have those doubts.Even if it’s the LOOM theory but I want explanations.Even the Master was shocked that he had become a woman it isn’t normal Time Lord regeneration process otherwise ,he John Simm wouldn’t have been so shocked .I don’t mind if it’s 10 years down the line as long as a story/theory is put forth.
but I did love Jodie in the role is it the best story ever was it the most dramatic acting by new Doctor ,no it wasn’t .It all hinges on Could the role work with a woman.
and doubters are willing to go and check for themselves and increase the viewing figures in the process.
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 8, 2018 18:55:02 GMT
I think maybe people increasingly like to use the Internet to share their opinions, even if it's something that we haven't experienced yet? About all one has to make an opinion out of is their worries, or their hopes. I think a lot people have probably changed their opinion now that they've actually seen the episode. This was a case of could this work with a female Doctor?They have proved it can. I think for me it was a question of whether they would let it work with a female Doctor - you know, cast a woman and just script her as The Doctor - or whether the change was going to give rise to lots and lot of "girlie" jokes. At least for the first episode, Chibnall avoided making a lot of overly obvious jokes that I'm not as sure Moffat would have avoided. I think that's really just because as someone (mark687 or nucleusofswarm, I think it was) pointed out the other day, Moffat's background is more in sit-coms. It's probably sort of natural that I think of him as fairly willing to go for a cheap giggle, that was still going on at least a bit last season, right up to the First Doctor talking about spankings. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 19:08:46 GMT
I think maybe people increasingly like to use the Internet to share their opinions, even if it's something that we haven't experienced yet? About all one has to make an opinion out of is their worries, or their hopes. I think a lot people have probably changed their opinion now that they've actually seen the episode. This was a case of could this work with a female Doctor?They have proved it can. I think for me it was a question of whether they would let it work with a female Doctor - you know, cast a woman and just script her as The Doctor - or whether the change was going to give rise to lots and lot of "girlie" jokes. At least for the first episode, Chibnall avoided making a lot of overly obvious jokes that I'm not as sure Moffat would have avoided. I think that's really just because as someone (mark687 or nucleusofswarm, I think it was) pointed out the other day, Moffat's background is more in sit-coms. It's probably sort of natural that I think of him as fairly willing to go for a cheap giggle, that was still going on at least a bit last season, right up to the First Doctor talking about spankings. Yes they very much played it straight.My sisters big Who fans were anxious to see what i thought as they knew i had reservations. I just dont like the attitude oh the Doctor is now female and we leave it at that.I want background is this a thing that happens when you get granted further regeneration?I feel though they really will avoid(cop out) on this aspect hence when asked about family Jodie said oh they are all Dead...nope thats a cop out ,so she wont ever meet Susan and see her reaction.If you get my drift? Explain TimeLOrd/Lady biology as i said even if it’s 13 women playing the role down a line.Dont run from it explain how a society can work .No doubt the TV show wont address it but am sure the clever guys at BF can |
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 8, 2018 19:24:44 GMT
It certainly was not the best episode of the New Series nor the best first episode for an actor.
What has happened? I can answer your question by pointing at the point I singled out. I disagree, for me that was the best episode of the New Series and by far the best first episode for any Doctor. Am I right? Are you right? Both of us, neither of us. It's all a matter of opinion, and clearly for many this episode was better than they expected.I definitely can agree to that! We have a saying in Germany: "Über Geschmack lässt sich streiten." "Taste is a matter for debate" and that is very true. And I admit I have been brought up to think critically and question things instead of just accepting them, and I am a scientist after all. This has advantages, but also comes with the disadvantage that I never completely join into the bliss of everybody else.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 8, 2018 19:27:46 GMT
I think maybe people increasingly like to use the Internet to share their opinions, even if it's something that we haven't experienced yet? About all one has to make an opinion out of is their worries, or their hopes. I think a lot people have probably changed their opinion now that they've actually seen the episode. This was a case of could this work with a female Doctor?They have proved it can. I think for me it was a question of whether they would let it work with a female Doctor - you know, cast a woman and just script her as The Doctor - or whether the change was going to give rise to lots and lot of "girlie" jokes. At least for the first episode, Chibnall avoided making a lot of overly obvious jokes that I'm not as sure Moffat would have avoided. I think that's really just because as someone (mark687 or nucleusofswarm, I think it was) pointed out the other day, Moffat's background is more in sit-coms. It's probably sort of natural that I think of him as fairly willing to go for a cheap giggle, that was still going on at least a bit last season, right up to the First Doctor talking about spankings. Hmm. Thanks for explaining this about Moffat (although I LOVE many of his stories!). This explains a lot actually. And the spanking bit did make me cringe. Happy we (hopefully) got rid of that.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 8, 2018 19:38:23 GMT
Yes they very much played it straight.My sisters big Who fans were anxious to see what i thought as they knew i had reservations. I just dont like the attitude oh the Doctor is now female and we leave it at that.I want background is this a thing that happens when you get granted further regeneration?I feel though they really will avoid(cop out) on this aspect hence when asked about family Jodie said oh they are all Dead...nope thats a cop out ,so she wont ever meet Susan and see her reaction.If you get my drift? Explain TimeLOrd/Lady biology as i said even if it’s 13 women playing the role down a line.Dont run from it explain how a society can work .No doubt the TV show wont address it but am sure the clever guys at BF can I thought it was great they played it straight. Deep down I feared it would become a cringe fest or what we call "Fremdschämen" in German (has not literal translation but approx. meaning you feel ashamed for the mistakes of others because they are just too embarrassing).
Hmm... I disagree on the timelord biology bit. I admit I always found Gallifrey stories very tedious and they take away much of the mystery and legend. Let the Doctor just have run away because he is a freak and a mutation and has a completely different way of thinking! I think the only time the timelords really worked was in "Wargames", after that they became kind of a joke. I am also not a fan of the books going into this and all this "looming" business. As a biologist, some of the made up "science" behind it makes my hair stand on end.
Leave the timelords as mysterious unfathomable figures in the background, if only because I think they would not be able to pull off something believable. Or they might produce something like the deadly assassin which was kind of a joke in my oppinon (e.g. old fashioned types of newscasts on Gallifrey? Really?) I think the only Gallifrey story from recent years I enjoyed was "Time in Office" and that was more created as a comedy anyways.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 19:46:07 GMT
Yes they very much played it straight.My sisters big Who fans were anxious to see what i thought as they knew i had reservations. I just dont like the attitude oh the Doctor is now female and we leave it at that.I want background is this a thing that happens when you get granted further regeneration?I feel though they really will avoid(cop out) on this aspect hence when asked about family Jodie said oh they are all Dead...nope thats a cop out ,so she wont ever meet Susan and see her reaction.If you get my drift? Explain TimeLOrd/Lady biology as i said even if it’s 13 women playing the role down a line.Dont run from it explain how a society can work .No doubt the TV show wont address it but am sure the clever guys at BF can I thought it was great they played it straight. Deep down I feared it would become a cringe fest or what we call "Fremdschämen" in German (has not literal translation but approx. meaning you feel ashamed for the mistakes of others because they are just too embarrassing).
Hmm... I disagree on the timelord biology bit. I admit I always found Gallifrey stories very tedious and they take away much of the mystery and legend. Let the Doctor just have run away because he is a freak and a mutation and has a completely different way of thinking! I think the only time the timelords really worked was in "Wargames", after that they became kind of a joke. I am also not a fan of the books going into this and all this "looming" business. As a biologist, some of the made up "science" behind it makes my hair stand on end.
Leave the timelords as mysterious unfathomable figures in the background, if only because I think they would not be able to pull off something believable. Or they might produce something like the deadly assassin which was kind of a joke in my oppinon (e.g. old fashioned types of newscasts on Gallifrey? Really?) I think the only Gallifrey story from recent years I enjoyed was "Time in Office" and that was more created as a comedy anyways.
For me nope I still need a reason I get where you are coming from but am the kind of guy that requires answers for certain things and this is one of them. I have now accepted it happens but it doesn’t make logical sense in any shape or form and to just brush it off as accept it doesn’t wash.If the Doctor had died after Smiths regeneration we wouldn’t have this situation the can of worms has been opened but we have conveniently rid the Doctor of Family?Will River still be in love with the Doctor 😂 My background is surgery so I would like answers lol🤪and a Timelord to dissect 🤪 am calling in Missy |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 19:57:06 GMT
Anyways off to bed time to stop overthinking a fictional TV program 🤪go to sleep go to sleep.................
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Post by fingersmash on Oct 8, 2018 20:48:59 GMT
I think maybe people increasingly like to use the Internet to share their opinions, even if it's something that we haven't experienced yet? About all one has to make an opinion out of is their worries, or their hopes. I think a lot people have probably changed their opinion now that they've actually seen the episode. I think for me it was a question of whether they would let it work with a female Doctor - you know, cast a woman and just script her as The Doctor - or whether the change was going to give rise to lots and lot of "girlie" jokes. At least for the first episode, Chibnall avoided making a lot of overly obvious jokes that I'm not as sure Moffat would have avoided. I think that's really just because as someone (mark687 or nucleusofswarm, I think it was) pointed out the other day, Moffat's background is more in sit-coms. It's probably sort of natural that I think of him as fairly willing to go for a cheap giggle, that was still going on at least a bit last season, right up to the First Doctor talking about spankings. Yes they very much played it straight.My sisters big Who fans were anxious to see what i thought as they knew i had reservations. I just dont like the attitude oh the Doctor is now female and we leave it at that.I want background is this a thing that happens when you get granted further regeneration?I feel though they really will avoid(cop out) on this aspect hence when asked about family Jodie said oh they are all Dead...nope thats a cop out ,so she wont ever meet Susan and see her reaction.If you get my drift? Explain TimeLOrd/Lady biology as i said even if it’s 13 women playing the role down a line.Dont run from it explain how a society can work .No doubt the TV show wont address it but am sure the clever guys at BF can We've seen a sex change regeneration. It's very blasé in universe if I remember correctly. |
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 8, 2018 21:00:49 GMT
Yes they very much played it straight.My sisters big Who fans were anxious to see what i thought as they knew i had reservations. I just dont like the attitude oh the Doctor is now female and we leave it at that.I want background is this a thing that happens when you get granted further regeneration?I feel though they really will avoid(cop out) on this aspect hence when asked about family Jodie said oh they are all Dead...nope thats a cop out ,so she wont ever meet Susan and see her reaction.If you get my drift? Explain TimeLOrd/Lady biology as i said even if it’s 13 women playing the role down a line.Dont run from it explain how a society can work .No doubt the TV show wont address it but am sure the clever guys at BF can We've seen a sex change regeneration. It's very blasé in universe if I remember correctly. Was that the one in Hell Bent? I think the less said about that episode, the better....  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 22:05:43 GMT
Yes they very much played it straight.My sisters big Who fans were anxious to see what i thought as they knew i had reservations. I just dont like the attitude oh the Doctor is now female and we leave it at that.I want background is this a thing that happens when you get granted further regeneration?I feel though they really will avoid(cop out) on this aspect hence when asked about family Jodie said oh they are all Dead...nope thats a cop out ,so she wont ever meet Susan and see her reaction.If you get my drift? Explain TimeLOrd/Lady biology as i said even if it’s 13 women playing the role down a line.Dont run from it explain how a society can work .No doubt the TV show wont address it but am sure the clever guys at BF can We've seen a sex change regeneration. It's very blasé in universe if I remember correctly. Exactly. There's no reason to explain it. Why & when would they do it? In the middle of an adventure the Doctor gives a breakdown of how a society in which the bipedal lifeform can regenerate & change gender works? Who would that info dump serve? Certainly not the story, just certain fans who feel the need for an explanation. In fact all if would do is draw attention to the gender change. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2018 6:46:13 GMT
There is a reason.My nephew has already asked that question of how it is possible to suddenly become a woman when you were a man.To opt out without providing a satisfactory explanation is copping out and only serves to justify we just did it and thats it.They didn’t have Bill Potts in the show because they needed a show where no one would ask the question, they wiped out the Doctors family(conveniently(and and also No previous monsters from the past as they might certainly ask that question.
Like many fans will always ask that question.The Blasé way in Hell bent irritated me i must admit.Will the show conveniently bump off everyone that might go wait a minute how does this work?
Anyways that will always be my question and i will always be in doubt about it all.Missy i accepted as the Master would go to absolutely any lengths to stay alive gender change etc.The Doctor?
And before it goes further(ie in futile thread arguing) thats my last word on it lol.
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Post by randomjc on Oct 9, 2018 14:13:36 GMT
There is a reason.My nephew has already asked that question of how it is possible to suddenly become a woman when you were a man.To opt out without providing a satisfactory explanation is copping out and only serves to justify we just did it and thats it.They didn’t have Bill Potts in the show because they needed a show where no one would ask the question, they wiped out the Doctors family(conveniently(and and also No previous monsters from the past as they might certainly ask that question. Like many fans will always ask that question.The Blasé way in Hell bent irritated me i must admit.Will the show conveniently bump off everyone that might go wait a minute how does this work? Anyways that will always be my question and i will always be in doubt about it all.Missy i accepted as the Master would go to absolutely any lengths to stay alive gender change etc.The Doctor? And before it goes further(ie in futile thread arguing) thats my last word on it lol. Hasn't the new show always kind of said the Doctor's family is "gone" for a while now. Or am I just misremembering things. As far as an explanation, I'm satisfied with they're a species that completely reorganizes themselves at a genetic level Everytime they "die". But I understand I'm easy to please. Kind of go with flow kind of person when it comes to this kind of thing, as long as I like it, im not bothered by it. |
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Post by sherlock on Oct 9, 2018 15:40:06 GMT
There is a reason.My nephew has already asked that question of how it is possible to suddenly become a woman when you were a man.To opt out without providing a satisfactory explanation is copping out and only serves to justify we just did it and thats it.They didn’t have Bill Potts in the show because they needed a show where no one would ask the question, they wiped out the Doctors family(conveniently(and and also No previous monsters from the past as they might certainly ask that question. Like many fans will always ask that question.The Blasé way in Hell bent irritated me i must admit.Will the show conveniently bump off everyone that might go wait a minute how does this work? Anyways that will always be my question and i will always be in doubt about it all.Missy i accepted as the Master would go to absolutely any lengths to stay alive gender change etc.The Doctor? And before it goes further(ie in futile thread arguing) thats my last word on it lol. The Doctor's family has always been wiped out, what she said about them in The Woman Who Fell To Earth was essentially a variation on the second Doctor's claim they 'sleep in my mind' in The Tomb of the Cybermen. The only explicit exception has been Susan, and last she was heard of she was involved in the Time War so it's unlikely she's out there. I think ultimately regeneration, and Gallifrey in general, works better when it isn't put under a microscope and everything explained (especially as the explanation usually amounts to 'Rassilon did it'). It's never been explained why regeneration looks different each time or why it's somehow become capable of being a weapon of mass destruction. There'll probably be some kind of explanation at some point in the expanded media though, there usually is. |
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