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Post by tuigirl on Nov 10, 2018 11:02:49 GMT
This is not directed at you daver, or anyone on this forum, but this is something I 've been wanting to say that your post inadvertantly touches on:
I legitimately feel great when I've seen all these pictures of kids dressing up as Thirteen, or drawing the characters or even rewatching older episodes because of seeing the new stuff. Had a massive grin from that little 'un's Rosa Parks drawing. I've shared that stuff on here because 1) I think it's really sweet, 2) people here like it and 3) it shows, beyond our own subjective opinions and tastes, this iteration of the show is speaking to someone, is providing comfort to someone, and they're not 'stupid' or 'fake' or 'a threat to us'.
Please people, tell me, am I 'not a real fan' because, even though I full respect people who have negative (or at least, harsher than mine) opinions and encourage them to be honest about it and share, I dare to be happy that 13 and her stories have resonated with people beyond myself? Because sometimes in online fandom, it feels like that.
No, you are doing exactly the right thing and I am pretty much doing the same as you. The whole message of the series is one of tolerance, loyalty, friendship and discovery.
I am really surprised that some people call themselves "fans" but have not taken any of this aboard.
But I believe that there are just certain people out there who only join a club/ fandom/ or go on a holiday so they are able to complain about something. It takes all animals to make a zoo.
I also find it sad that people even on this forum somehow feel guilty and try to justify that the new series is not to their tastes as if they need absolution or something.
It is just a TV show, and if it is not your taste, it is not your taste. No justification needed. No guilt needed.
Just be happy that there are people who enjoy it and look forward to an amazing 2019 with Big Finish.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 10, 2018 11:09:42 GMT
Better villains, this has been the weakest aspect of Series 11, weres the risk & boldness Chibnall promised. I wholeheartely agree with you. I am of the firm belief that a good story rises or falls with a good/ bad villain.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 11:21:49 GMT
Better villains, this has been the weakest aspect of Series 11, weres the risk & boldness Chibnall promised. I wholeheartely agree with you. I am of the firm belief that a good story rises or falls with a good/ bad villain. Not just a good villain but a formidable opponent to the villain.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 12:21:18 GMT
This is not directed at you daver, or anyone on this forum, but this is something I 've been wanting to say that your post inadvertantly touches on:
I legitimately feel great when I've seen all these pictures of kids dressing up as Thirteen, or drawing the characters or even rewatching older episodes because of seeing the new stuff. Had a massive grin from that little 'un's Rosa Parks drawing. I've shared that stuff on here because 1) I think it's really sweet, 2) people here like it and 3) it shows, beyond our own subjective opinions and tastes, this iteration of the show is speaking to someone, is providing comfort to someone, and they're not 'stupid' or 'fake' or 'a threat to us'.
Please people, tell me, am I 'not a real fan' because, even though I full respect people who have negative (or at least, harsher than mine) opinions and encourage them to be honest about it and share, I dare to be happy that 13 and her stories have resonated with people beyond myself? Because sometimes in online fandom, it feels like that.
No, you are doing exactly the right thing and I am pretty much doing the same as you. The whole message of the series is one of tolerance, loyalty, friendship and discovery.
I am really surprised that some people call themselves "fans" but have not taken any of this aboard.
But I believe that there are just certain people out there who only join a club/ fandom/ or go on a holiday so they are able to complain about something. It takes all animals to make a zoo.
I also find it sad that people even on this forum somehow feel guilty and try to justify that the new series is not to their tastes as if they need absolution or something.
It is just a TV show, and if it is not your taste, it is not your taste. No justification needed. No guilt needed.
Just be happy that there are people who enjoy it and look forward to an amazing 2019 with Big Finish. Love this post. Just to touch on people justifying not loving any aspect of Doctor Who. I think, mercifully, that tolerance and respect is more prevalent on this board than elsewhere. Just looking at comments on YouTube Doctor Who clips can produce some real vitriol and malice. Even here it happens very occasionally. There is little worse than posting something like, "I really like Doomsday," to have it greeted with "You're easily pleased," or some other form of demeaning put-down. So I think, people appear to justify their dislike of something so they don't come across as needlessly antagonistic, which is something I applaud to be honest.
Also, people's relationship with Doctor Who can be different than with other television shows. Certainly, I've found this recent series slightly lacklustre compared to past stories, but I'd still rather watch mediocre Doctor Who than anything else on television. Equally, the fact that Doctor Who has existed longer than many peoples' lifetimes - even mine! - secures memories of it in the comforting bubble of nostalgia that goes way beyond the odd dodgy piece of CSO or rubber monster. And wonderfully, Big Finish has become an extension of that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 12:28:34 GMT
This is not directed at you daver, or anyone on this forum, but this is something I 've been wanting to say that your post inadvertantly touches on: I legitimately feel great when I've seen all these pictures of kids dressing up as Thirteen, or drawing the characters or even rewatching older episodes because of seeing the new stuff. Had a massive grin from that little 'un's Rosa Parks drawing. I've shared that stuff on here because 1) I think it's really sweet, 2) people here like it and 3) it shows, beyond our own subjective opinions and tastes, this iteration of the show is speaking to someone, is providing comfort to someone, and they're not 'stupid' or 'fake' or 'a threat to us'.
Please people, tell me, am I 'not a real fan' because, even though I full respect people who have negative (or at least, harsher than mine) opinions and encourage them to be honest about it and share, I dare to be happy that 13 and her stories have resonated with people beyond myself? Because sometimes in online fandom, it feels like that.
No, you are doing exactly the right thing and I am pretty much doing the same as you. The whole message of the series is one of tolerance, loyalty, friendship and discovery.
I am really surprised that some people call themselves "fans" but have not taken any of this aboard.
But I believe that there are just certain people out there who only join a club/ fandom/ or go on a holiday so they are able to complain about something. It takes all animals to make a zoo.
I also find it sad that people even on this forum somehow feel guilty and try to justify that the new series is not to their tastes as if they need absolution or something.
It is just a TV show, and if it is not your taste, it is not your taste. No justification needed. No guilt needed.
Just be happy that there are people who enjoy it and look forward to an amazing 2019 with Big Finish. Excellent points. And Doctor Who is, rather wonderfully, all about change. It's so many things to so many different kinds of people all at once. Today may not work, but that's okay. The show is filled with tomorrows.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 10, 2018 13:12:51 GMT
Love this post. Just to touch on people justifying not loving any aspect of Doctor Who. I think, mercifully, that tolerance and respect is more prevalent on this board than elsewhere. Just looking at comments on YouTube Doctor Who clips can produce some real vitriol and malice. Even here it happens very occasionally. There is little worse than posting something like, "I really like Doomsday," to have it greeted with "You're easily pleased," or some other form of demeaning put-down. So I think, people appear to justify their dislike of something so they don't come across as needlessly antagonistic, which is something I applaud to be honest.
Also, people's relationship with Doctor Who can be different than with other television shows. Certainly, I've found this recent series slightly lacklustre compared to past stories, but I'd still rather watch mediocre Doctor Who than anything else on television. Equally, the fact that Doctor Who has existed longer than many peoples' lifetimes - even mine! - secures memories of it in the comforting bubble of nostalgia that goes way beyond the odd dodgy piece of CSO or rubber monster. And wonderfully, Big Finish has become an extension of that.
I am very happy I found this board. And I am very grateful for having all of you around for some (most of the time) civilised conversation.
I have seen the toxic places on the internet and to come here... it is like coming to an oasis.
A virtual group hug goes out to all of you.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Nov 10, 2018 14:21:17 GMT
I am just loving it.
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Post by eric009 on Nov 10, 2018 17:08:19 GMT
only thing i do not like tardis missing again
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 19:03:05 GMT
This is not directed at you daver, or anyone on this forum, but this is something I 've been wanting to say that your post inadvertantly touches on:
I legitimately feel great when I've seen all these pictures of kids dressing up as Thirteen, or drawing the characters or even rewatching older episodes because of seeing the new stuff. Had a massive grin from that little 'un's Rosa Parks drawing. I've shared that stuff on here because 1) I think it's really sweet, 2) people here like it and 3) it shows, beyond our own subjective opinions and tastes, this iteration of the show is speaking to someone, is providing comfort to someone, and they're not 'stupid' or 'fake' or 'a threat to us'.
Please people, tell me, am I 'not a real fan' because, even though I full respect people who have negative (or at least, harsher than mine) opinions and encourage them to be honest about it and share, I dare to be happy that 13 and her stories have resonated with people beyond myself? Because sometimes in online fandom, it feels like that.
No, you are doing exactly the right thing and I am pretty much doing the same as you. The whole message of the series is one of tolerance, loyalty, friendship and discovery.
I am really surprised that some people call themselves "fans" but have not taken any of this aboard.
But I believe that there are just certain people out there who only join a club/ fandom/ or go on a holiday so they are able to complain about something. It takes all animals to make a zoo.
I also find it sad that people even on this forum somehow feel guilty and try to justify that the new series is not to their tastes as if they need absolution or something.
It is just a TV show, and if it is not your taste, it is not your taste. No justification needed. No guilt needed.
Just be happy that there are people who enjoy it and look forward to an amazing 2019 with Big Finish. Absolutely fair comment. Clearly there are dedicated watchers on this thread who are really enjoying it and finding it refreshing, as are the casual viewers. Any twisting of the ratings curve to try and suggest that it is failing, isn't holding any water, as the show is in a very healthy place this season. I hope I have not given the impression that I myself have issues in not being on-board. As I freely admit, I have yet to watch beyond Ep 1 and so have avoided commenting or liking posts from those who have, and either enjoyed it or been underwhelmed. However, I do admit that it is not really my thing at present. But as you rightly say, there is more than enough that is, to get stuck into elsewhere, from revisiting Classic Who and a substantial BF backlog. I am not sure anyone has been critical of others liking S11 on this thread, bar the usual infamy. Just a preparedness to state a differing sentiment. I read on for positive comments, that will tell me that I have missed something special, and indeed will dip in via iPlayer when that happens. Reading Twitter, the way Chibnall is being slated as if he simply cannot write Who is, to quote Mary Whitehouse on the Deadly Assassin - 'Dumb'. I still think he understands what the general audience wants and seems to be delivering. But then again, I am perhaps not part of that audience anymore. I rarely watch live TV anymore so am out on a limb regards modern drama.
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Post by eric009 on Nov 10, 2018 19:46:58 GMT
Love this post. Just to touch on people justifying not loving any aspect of Doctor Who. I think, mercifully, that tolerance and respect is more prevalent on this board than elsewhere. Just looking at comments on YouTube Doctor Who clips can produce some real vitriol and malice. Even here it happens very occasionally. There is little worse than posting something like, "I really like Doomsday," to have it greeted with "You're easily pleased," or some other form of demeaning put-down. So I think, people appear to justify their dislike of something so they don't come across as needlessly antagonistic, which is something I applaud to be honest.
Also, people's relationship with Doctor Who can be different than with other television shows. Certainly, I've found this recent series slightly lacklustre compared to past stories, but I'd still rather watch mediocre Doctor Who than anything else on television. Equally, the fact that Doctor Who has existed longer than many peoples' lifetimes - even mine! - secures memories of it in the comforting bubble of nostalgia that goes way beyond the odd dodgy piece of CSO or rubber monster. And wonderfully, Big Finish has become an extension of that.
I am very happy I found this board. And I am very grateful for having all of you around for some (most of the time) civilised conversation.
I have seen the toxic places on the internet and to come here... it is like coming to an oasis.
A virtual group hug goes out to all of you.
ta
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Post by eric009 on Nov 10, 2018 19:59:16 GMT
i remebber a board once when on and on about billy piper being the worse choice ever say she can't act and itold them all to grow up and give her chance AND all this week before dr who came back in 2005 when back to board 2 weeks later most of them never said a word about the rotten posts they put weeks before, i left after that just very glad billy piper showed how wrong they can be
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 10, 2018 20:13:54 GMT
Reading Twitter, the way Chibnall is being slated as if he simply cannot write Who is, to quote Mary Whitehouse on the Deadly Assassin - 'Dumb'. I still think he understands what the general audience wants and seems to be delivering. But then again, I am perhaps not part of that audience anymore. I rarely watch live TV anymore so am out on a limb regards modern drama.Sigh. I actually feel the same most of the time.
I still got a tremendous backlog of DVDs sitting around with TV shows people told me I HAVE to watch. It is a pile around 1m high.
I have yet to put in the first DVD of Game of Thrones for example. Yes, that is right, I have as of now NOT watched a single episode of Game of Thrones.
And right now I am just not feeling in the right mindspace... so I am actually quite happy that TV Doctor Who is just some light entertainment for the background.
P.S. I might have to add that internet is dreadful at the place I am at the moment, so I have not even signed up to Netflix yet and survive on iTunes alone which luckily provides Doctor Who... No, I have not arrived in the 2010s yet.
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Post by agentten on Nov 10, 2018 20:23:48 GMT
Things I like so far:
- The companions feel very real and important. None of them are just along for the ride or there for the Doctor to answer questions. They're real people with real strengths and weaknesses and interesting relationships who all contribute to the success of whatever task the group takes on.
- I'm finding Whittaker's performance to be charming and breezy, much like Tennant's in his first year. I expect there will be a lot of depth to mine in the future, but for now I think it's just the right note for an access point for new viewers, plus I'm just finding her very entertaining.
- All new stuff. I love Daleks and Cybermen and Weeping Angels as much as any Who fan, and I look forward to seeing them down the road, but I like that the focus is on new places and new things.
- Love the TARDIS redesign, the new theme and opening sequence, and 13's coat is already iconic in my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 21:27:19 GMT
Yes, that is right, I have as of now NOT watched a single episode of Game of Thrones. You’re not alone in that. Me neither! About the only thing I could say to any GoT fans is that I hope they’re enjoying it, and I’ve not seen a single second. These posts make me happy. I thought I was the only person in the world not to have seen this! Never saw Lost either.
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Post by masterdoctor on Nov 10, 2018 23:05:27 GMT
You’re not alone in that. Me neither! About the only thing I could say to any GoT fans is that I hope they’re enjoying it, and I’ve not seen a single second. These posts make me happy. I thought I was the only person in the world not to have seen this! Never saw Lost either. And I happily raise the glass to not having seen it either. Lost I have seen an epi or two but it wasn't my cup of tea, but I will say that the creator went on to The Leftovers which is one of the best shows of the last 10 years and deals with grief in the most mature way possible, but not light Sunday viewing in any possible definition of the word.
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Post by kinghumble on Nov 11, 2018 1:45:22 GMT
There's a fan-theory (backed up with relatively-plausible evidence) that Game of Thrones is set on a post-apocalyptic sci-fi world, where all the "magic" is leftover psionic-technology, the dragons are genetically engineered war-machines, the non-human creatures (giants, elf-types, etc.) are aliens... and they're all living in a medieval-feudal setting because 8000 years prior there had been a nuclear war between the human-colonists and the native-aliens that caused everyone's civilization to collapse to barbarism only to slowly rebuild their technology to the level of swords and castles. What I'm saying is... We should all keep an eye out for the TARDIS to materialize in the GoT finale.
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Post by number13 on Nov 11, 2018 1:59:13 GMT
So far I've personally scored the episodes as 5* 4* 4* 4* 2* so that's my opinion week-by-week. Loved the series opener, then a good quest game, then a superb historical which for me lost a star because of the shaky time-travel elements, then a stonking monster story again let down one star by the villain, then a pile of P'ting.
The visuals and visual style are excellent, the incidental music is less 'in-your-face' than it sometimes has been in New Who (which is a good change imo) and the new theme arrangement is a beauty!
I'm liking the Companions a lot though as yet Yaz isn't really standing out - hopefully her breakthrough story is just about to come. And I'm liking Jodie's Doctor and while I agree there is a sense of 'safety first' about the writing at times, I think this was a wise move.
Now please take this the right way while I speculate...
Reading this thread and thinking back over many threads since Jodie's casting was first announced, would it be fair to say that on the whole, the posters who are enjoying the series most are often the people like me who were doubtful (but not hostile) about making the Doctor female and even more doubtful about the way the series pre-publicity often emphasised that fact above the science fiction? And the people who were most positive, even mildly 'campaigning' about the change are often those now enjoying the series rather less?
I'm generalising about it of course, there are easily found exceptions in both directions, but if I'm not completely wrong, can it be explained by the fact that Jodie is (quite rightly imo) playing the Doctor as "The Doctor, who just happens to be in a female incarnation this time." Buy some new clothes, job done, go and help people in need. She's doing what the Doctor always does just as the Doctor always does, one body to the next, time after time with elements of many previous incarnations showing through (which is a deliberate character choice rather than a lack of specific new personality imo.)
In summary, for me the writing may be a bit 'safe' sometimes and some of the villains needed a boost, but I'm delighted to find it is still the science-fiction series I've enjoyed since 1971 and for me, while Peter Capaldi is 'my' New Who Doctor, Jodie is definitely The Doctor!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 2:53:01 GMT
There's a fan-theory (backed up with relatively-plausible evidence) that Game of Thrones is set on a post-apocalyptic sci-fi world, where all the "magic" is leftover psionic-technology, the dragons are genetically engineered war-machines, the non-human creatures (giants, elf-types, etc.) are aliens... and they're all living in a medieval-feudal setting because 8000 years prior there had been a nuclear war between the human-colonists and the native-aliens that caused everyone's civilization to collapse to barbarism only to slowly rebuild their technology to the level of swords and castles. What I'm saying is... We should all keep an eye out for the TARDIS to materialize in the GoT finale. Chalk up another who hasn't seen Game of Thrones either (" One of us! One of us! One of us!") because they were reading Dune, but this really makes me want to watch it. So far I've personally scored the episodes as 5* 4* 4* 4* 2* so that's my opinion week-by-week. Loved the series opener, then a good quest game, then a superb historical which for me lost a star because of the shaky time-travel elements, then a stonking monster story again let down one star by the villain, then a pile of P'ting. The visuals and visual style are excellent, the incidental music is less 'in-your-face' than it sometimes has been in New Who (which is a good change imo) and the new theme arrangement is a beauty!
I'm liking the Companions a lot though as yet Yaz isn't really standing out - hopefully her breakthrough story is just about to come. And I'm liking Jodie's Doctor and while I agree there is a sense of 'safety first' about the writing at times, I think this was a wise move. Now please take this the right way while I speculate... Reading this thread and thinking back over many threads since Jodie's casting was first announced, would it be fair to say that on the whole, the posters who are enjoying the series most are often the people like me who were doubtful (but not hostile) about making the Doctor female and even more doubtful about the way the series pre-publicity often emphasised that fact above the science fiction? And the people who were most positive, even mildly 'campaigning' about the change are often those now enjoying the series rather less? I'm generalising about it of course, there are easily found exceptions in both directions, but if I'm not completely wrong, can it be explained by the fact that Jodie is (quite rightly imo) playing the Doctor as "The Doctor, who just happens to be in a female incarnation this time." Buy some new clothes, job done, go and help people in need. She's doing what the Doctor always does just as the Doctor always does, one body to the next, time after time with elements of many previous incarnations showing through (which is a deliberate character choice rather than a lack of specific new personality imo.)
In summary, for me the writing may be a bit 'safe' sometimes and some of the villains needed a boost, but I'm delighted to find it is still the science-fiction series I've enjoyed since 1971 and for me, while Peter Capaldi is 'my' New Who Doctor, Jodie is definitely The Doctor!
In the interests of providing a larger sample size, I can say that I am happily eating whatever cautious reservations I had before the series went ahead. Tastes like taffeta. My first childhood Who experiences were always of it as this high adventure romp with substance and, oh, it feels like I'm watching the old Hartnell stories. I've no clue where it's going, but the characters have me by my fingernails. I'm hoping for some video grotesques with impact before the season's out ( The Clone Wars was allowed some pretty intense Sith for its timeslot), but even if it doesn't happen, I've really enjoyed the journey so far. Makes me excited for the inevitable day that she meets the Daleks or the Cybermen.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Nov 11, 2018 4:44:51 GMT
Loving that the Doctor isn’t all doom and gloom and grumpy with only periods of happiness. Loving the new companions. Loving Jodie’s Doctor.
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Post by jasonward on Nov 11, 2018 5:39:06 GMT
Been reading this thread since it started, and it's interesting to see all the different takes on what does and does not work, now as I posted earlier, I've been loving it, and really do think this is the best series since the revival, but I wanted to explain a little about why I think this.
So putting aside the filming quality and the music, which I feel are both huge improvements over what we've had, there are elements that I love and feel very classic era to me, firstly The Tardis, (aside it's interior decoration which I think is not great) I love The Tardis has become a problem again, that it can't be relied upon, that element alone has always slightly disappointed me in the revival series, The Tardis had become safe, just a means of travel, now it's back (even if its not there).
The companions, I love having 3 companions again, I love that they have split up, go off and do other things, together, but without The Doctor, that The Doctor uses them as a team. This reminds me very much of 1st and 2nd Doctor teams. There's no love interest there, neither the companions or The Doctor want to jump in bed with each other, the character development is succinct, easy to swallow and none indulgent and doesn't interfere with the story at hand.
Then there are the stories, simple stories, that begin and end, have identifiable enemies/baddies and aren't trying to be clever with plot twists, and arcs and coming back from the dead.
I've seen a few people say Jodie's Doctor is too much like Tennant's, I disagree, sure very similar energies and swish, but in deed, thought and empathy, Jodie's Doctor seems to me to bear for more resembles Troughton's Doctor.
Overall, I feel very much more at home with this era of Who than I have ever felt before with the revival series.
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