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Post by mrperson on Dec 11, 2018 2:48:34 GMT
"The handwavium is too high".... It wasn't bad but the end got a bit silly in terms of "ok, I'll accept that.... and that.... and that..... and that? And....". I'm quite glad there wasn't some big season arc that has to be but fails to be solved at the end because it was sort of made up as it went along. Shame there are only 10 episodes this season, though.
I dunno..7 or 8 out of 10, I'd say.
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Post by nottenst on Dec 11, 2018 14:53:35 GMT
One weird editing thing about the episode. After they gave the neural balances to the Ux, the Doctor and Yaz started feeling the planets affects and I was wondering why she didn't ask for them back. Later in the episode, they both had them back. I presume there is a missing scene that was edited for time (at least on BBCA). Or maybe it went by so fast I missed it. The scene is there in the BBC broadcast anyway. It is quick but not blink and miss. Went back last night and found the scene. A few seconds.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 12, 2018 0:52:00 GMT
Now that I've let a few days pass and mulled on it, allow me to expand:
Still think it's Chibb's own second best, under Woman, and as I said, it does share strengths. Tight pacing and structuring, always feeling like it's going somewhere, while still allowing for quieter, more character focused moments. While Tim Shaw may not go down as one of the greats or most monumentous, he did feel fitting for this series' more intimate, smaller scale. If for nothing else, whatever you think of the character, Oatley's performance deserves praise: aside from a great voice, he is working like crazy giving Tim Shaw screen presence and, in conjuction with Childs' direction and the set, he actually can be intimidating. The homage to Pirate Planet didn't bug me: I thought it was a nice callback and it's different enough to the Captain's scheme that it doesn't feel like mere rehashing (plus, it's been a while since Who's done big cosmic physics stuff).
Some nice stuff with Graham and Ryan, their little MIB moment was rather cute, but the killing angle did seem a little rushed. I wished It Takes You Away had played a more ambigious or malevolent note at the end, so it would segue better into this. Had there been a bigger arc, maybe even just from Demons onwards, this could've felt like a more natural point to reach.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 22:27:53 GMT
Yep. I really like this. It is a slow-burner, a pot-boiler, and I have no problem with that. Perhaps this series needed something spectacular and dynamic to finish it off - it certainly doesn't have the air of finality that many previous finales have had, but much is different about this series compared to what has gone before. And I have no problem with that either. The dilemma between The Doctor and Graham is very good and well played. Both sides have understandable axes to grind. And the contrasting points of view cause ripples for others too. Intimate, small-time dilemmas, but dilemmas all the same.
This is on a par with CC's enjoyable series opener for me. All characters have moments to shine, and it is a showcase for the cast. It is good, if not world-shattering, to see Tim Shaw again - a good and very well played villain (Samual Oatley is excellent) with ideas above his station (memories of Davros cryogenically frozen in the grand finale). I still don't think it's the last we've seen of Tim.
Anyway, last word to The Doctor:
"I love wellies."
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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 13, 2018 16:58:03 GMT
I find it hard to find anything at all to say about the episode, simply because it is such an inconsequential piece of fluff. It was…okay. Serviceable. Adequate. I enjoyed the Graham and Ryan show, but they kept cutting away from it to deal with the boring dumbo with teeth in his face. The character moments were strong, but there should have been something else at stake, because there was no tension since we all knew Graham would never wind up killing Tim Shaw. Consequently, it was all a bit of kabuki, with everybody going through the motions until we got to the predetermined conclusion. Also, for a four thousand year-old demigod he sure went down like a chump.
Yaz is such a tin dog that I expect her to explode after chasing a beach ball into the surf. I enjoy her, but she has almost nothing to do.
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Post by dangerwillrobinson on Dec 17, 2018 10:21:20 GMT
Have we had any news on the consolidated ratings for this episode yet? Usually they’d be up by now...
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Post by mark687 on Dec 17, 2018 10:26:20 GMT
Have we had any news on the consolidated ratings for this episode yet? Usually they’d be up by now... Not yet I've checked
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mark687
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Post by dangerwillrobinson on Dec 17, 2018 11:58:19 GMT
Have we had any news on the consolidated ratings for this episode yet? Usually they’d be up by now... Not yet I've checked
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mark687
No, I couldn’t see any myself either. Hmmm - I wonder why not?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 12:57:16 GMT
Not yet I've checked
Regards
mark687
No, I couldn’t see any myself either. Hmmm - I wonder why not? They are panicking. Lowest ratings ever. Show will be cancelled before 2020 season.
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Post by mark687 on Dec 17, 2018 13:05:36 GMT
No, I couldn’t see any myself either. Hmmm - I wonder why not? They are panicking. Lowest ratings ever. Show will be cancelled before 2020 season. It wont be cancelled but I still think they've got to have stronger reasoning for the delay then Post production takes time. Be up front and say they're fitting round Walsh's availability.
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mark687
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 14:02:27 GMT
They are panicking. Lowest ratings ever. Show will be cancelled before 2020 season. It wont be cancelled but I still think they've got to have stronger reasoning for the delay then Post production takes time. Be up front and say they're fitting round Walsh's availability.
Regards
mark687
I think you might have missed the sarcasm in JohnHurtDoctor's post there given we know the ratings are - even without the rest of the plus 28s in - already among the top any series has had since the show came back and that DW will absolutely back in 2020 Not really sure what telling people exactly what the reasons are for the delay adds. No-one demands that of Jed Mercurio for his hit shows and it won't make them come back any faster knowing anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 14:41:10 GMT
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 17, 2018 18:39:45 GMT
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 18, 2018 11:48:13 GMT
Not to turn this into 'Twitter: the thread' but Dooley asked a great and highly challenging question:
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Post by GroundedCompanion on Dec 19, 2018 14:48:55 GMT
I find it hard to find anything at all to say about the episode, simply because it is such an inconsequential piece of fluff. It was…okay. Serviceable. Adequate. I enjoyed the Graham and Ryan show, but they kept cutting away from it to deal with the boring dumbo with teeth in his face. The character moments were strong, but there should have been something else at stake, because there was no tension since we all knew Graham would never wind up killing Tim Shaw. Consequently, it was all a bit of kabuki, with everybody going through the motions until we got to the predetermined conclusion. Also, for a four thousand year-old demigod he sure went down like a chump. Yaz is such a tin dog that I expect her to explode after chasing a beach ball into the surf. I enjoy her, but she has almost nothing to do.
It wasn't a perfect finale, but I VERY much felt throughout it was a strong possibility. One of Graham's leading characteristics is that he feels and Chibnall has been slowly positioning him in opposition to The Doctor (having twiggered that there's SOMETHING not quite right about The Doctor and that she's older then she seems) and it'd be an intresting fork in the road to Thirteen's journey (where she's trying to define herself away from her mantle as simply a Time Lord in the universe). I could easily see Graham, that sweet, affinmable, accomodating bus driver silly, but he knows it, bus driver but he knows it killing Tzim-Sha, especially being the old man of the group. Ryan's life might have been touched by his Father's alchaolism and abandonment and Yaz might be a police officer, but the darker edges of life are far more sharper then these kids know yet.
Having someone who would gleefully go after a kid whose life is just beginning (even if that kid is a bit of an idiot) isn't something Graham would easily stand for, or accept, Grace's death, regardless, especially with him being Ryan's remaining parental figure, as well as the hints about Grace's first husband. The embers, for me, were firmly lit and the tension felt VERY real. I could easily see the show going down that direction, with Graham living in the aftermath, feeling he'd failed and being frightened of taining and lighting Ryan's own embers, with Graham returning to his ordinary life and urging Ryan to remain with The Doctor, 'safe' in the TARDIS. Doctor Who has never shirked away from the darkness, after all. The shadow hanging over Thirteen's life.
For me, the show, subverted that expectation and went down a further more intresting route. We're not really meant to feel pleased with Ryan or Graham's actions and there's a real sense that Grace, who lived life, who inhabiated life, wouldn't agree with their actions. It's nasty, it's revenge, but it's the only option left open to both Graham and Ryan. It's left them both with the taste of something VERY nasty, building on Ryan's previous development in The Ghost Monnument and Rosa. And while it's their only option, it's not the only option left open for The Doctor. There isn't exactly a shortage of space prisons, uninhabited worlds or Human Nature style punishments The Doctor couldn't use to deal with Tzim-Sha. He's a minor league villian who has managed to get above himself seeimingly BECAUSE of The Doctor's inaction. Thirteen wants to leave her mantle behind and return to the good old days and for good reason, she knows where that's lead her, and what it's done to how she sees the universe, the arrogance of it. But she can't return to the naiviete of her younger years, enterily. As her arc has been this season, she's a Time Lord in the universe and she needs to define herself in relation to that with her Time War and subsquent experiences.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 18, 2019 17:19:42 GMT
28 Day Viewing Figures
7.1 million
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mark687
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