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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 10:20:48 GMT
Flatline.
Series 8 of 'nu Who' gets slated by some, but I really enjoyed it all (except perhaps for In the Forest of the Night).
Flatline is great. True horror - in fact, it could stand very well as a horror film in its own right. Amazing that Doctor Who produces stories like this every week! The Boneless are terrific and chilling, the cast are great and the realisation of The Doctor's shrinking TARDIS is convincing. This is one of the best, and slightly underrated, I think.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 6, 2020 10:26:49 GMT
Flatline.
Series 8 of 'nu Who' gets slated by some, but I really enjoyed it all (except perhaps for In the Forest of the Night).
Flatline is great. True horror - in fact, it could stand very well as a horror film in its own right. Amazing that Doctor Who produces stories like this every week! The Boneless are terrific and chilling, the cast are great and the realisation of The Doctor's shrinking TARDIS is convincing. This is one of the best, and slightly underrated, I think.
I enjoy that one, too. I especially love this because I had nightmares as a child where the figures of an especially horrid cubist painting at the local gym hall would climb down from the wall and abduct the kids from my kindergarten next door.
This episode sends chills down my spine every time!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 11:53:43 GMT
Flatline.
Series 8 of 'nu Who' gets slated by some, but I really enjoyed it all (except perhaps for In the Forest of the Night).
Flatline is great. True horror - in fact, it could stand very well as a horror film in its own right. Amazing that Doctor Who produces stories like this every week! The Boneless are terrific and chilling, the cast are great and the realisation of The Doctor's shrinking TARDIS is convincing. This is one of the best, and slightly underrated, I think.
I enjoy that one, too. I especially love this because I had nightmares as a child where the figures of an especially horrid cubist painting at the local gym hall would climb down from the wall and abduct the kids from my kindergarten next door.
This episode sends chills down my spine every time!
I love that!
I also love it when they do something different with the TARDIS - the Doctor's most loyal travelling companion - to remind us it is more than 'just' a time machine (as if that wasn't enough).
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Post by timegirl on Jul 6, 2020 12:11:31 GMT
Flatline.
Series 8 of 'nu Who' gets slated by some, but I really enjoyed it all (except perhaps for In the Forest of the Night).
Flatline is great. True horror - in fact, it could stand very well as a horror film in its own right. Amazing that Doctor Who produces stories like this every week! The Boneless are terrific and chilling, the cast are great and the realisation of The Doctor's shrinking TARDIS is convincing. This is one of the best, and slightly underrated, I think.
I rewatched that episode recently too! It is brilliant and truly terrifying!😱 I love series 8 too(along with the rest of the Capaldi era😉) Series 8 has brilliant character development for 12 and Clara!😊
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 21:46:22 GMT
Flatline.
Series 8 of 'nu Who' gets slated by some, but I really enjoyed it all (except perhaps for In the Forest of the Night).
Flatline is great. True horror - in fact, it could stand very well as a horror film in its own right. Amazing that Doctor Who produces stories like this every week! The Boneless are terrific and chilling, the cast are great and the realisation of The Doctor's shrinking TARDIS is convincing. This is one of the best, and slightly underrated, I think.
I rewatched that episode recently too! It is brilliant and truly terrifying!😱 I love series 8 too(along with the rest of the Capaldi era😉) Series 8 has brilliant character development for 12 and Clara!😊 I agree. This development becomes more apparent on rewatches too, I find. There are many subtle changes to their relationship - and some not so subtle too! This is why I found Clara's behaviour immediately following Danny Pink's fate in 'Dark Water' a bit out-of-character.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 6, 2020 21:52:27 GMT
I rewatched that episode recently too! It is brilliant and truly terrifying!😱 I love series 8 too(along with the rest of the Capaldi era😉) Series 8 has brilliant character development for 12 and Clara!😊 I agree. This development becomes more apparent on rewatches too, I find. There are many subtle changes to their relationship - and some not so subtle too! This is why I found Clara's behaviour immediately following Danny Pink's fate in 'Dark Water' a bit out-of-character. Clara seems to be settled with a lot of out of character moments. Sadly. But I think the worst offender still is in Deep Breath where she cannot accept an older 12. And this right after she had tea and biscuits with the War Doctor.
Never bought that.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 6, 2020 21:56:23 GMT
I rewatched that episode recently too! It is brilliant and truly terrifying!😱 I love series 8 too(along with the rest of the Capaldi era😉) Series 8 has brilliant character development for 12 and Clara!😊 I agree. This development becomes more apparent on rewatches too, I find. There are many subtle changes to their relationship - and some not so subtle too! This is why I found Clara's behaviour immediately following Danny Pink's fate in 'Dark Water' a bit out-of-character. I think I know what you mean about Clara’s reaction to Danny fate, she was unusually cruel to 12 at first 🤔 What’s your favorite 12 and Clara episode? I have quite a few but my favorite is definitely Last Christmas 😊 Don’t worry if not, but out of curiosity do you like 12 and Clara as a romantic couple? Because I was always fascinated by that angle of their Doctor Companion relationship 🤔😊
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 21:56:31 GMT
I agree. This development becomes more apparent on rewatches too, I find. There are many subtle changes to their relationship - and some not so subtle too! This is why I found Clara's behaviour immediately following Danny Pink's fate in 'Dark Water' a bit out-of-character. Clara seems to be settled with a lot of out of character moments. Sadly. But I think the worst offender still is in Deep Breath where she cannot accept an older 12. And this right after she had tea and biscuits with the War Doctor.
Never bought that.
I have to agree with that too. She'd spent some considerable time in the company of all Doctors up to that point, and was well familiar with regeneration. So as you say, why so unaccepting of Doctor Twelve - somehow Matt being 'her Doctor' isn't quite enough to explain it. I do, however, love how the two of them get to know each other throughout Series 8 - and don't always like what they find! A good, complex - if not always consistent - relationship (just like most relationships, perhaps - or maybe just mine ).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 22:02:23 GMT
I agree. This development becomes more apparent on rewatches too, I find. There are many subtle changes to their relationship - and some not so subtle too! This is why I found Clara's behaviour immediately following Danny Pink's fate in 'Dark Water' a bit out-of-character. I think I know what you mean about Clara’s reaction to Danny fate, she was unusually cruel to 12 at first 🤔 What’s your favorite 12 and Clara episode? I have quite a few but my favorite is definitely Last Christmas 😊 Don’t worry if not, but out of curiosity do you like 12 and Clara as a romantic couple? Because I was always fascinated by that angle of their Doctor Companion relationship 🤔😊 To answer your last question first - there were moments, toward the end of Matt's time, when it was hinted that he 'fancied' her. I never quite understood where that was going, or what it could possibly lead to. Maybe the seeds were planted to spill over to Doctor Twelve's era, but I don't know. I think ultimately they had rather more of a father/daughter relationship, and felt he was convinced Danny Pink wasn't good enough for her, as a father would be. Or maybe an eccentric uncle. I'd not thought of them as a romantic couple, but his jibes towards her looks - when Clara is clearly very attractive - are the conversations people in love might have. Hmm. I'll have to think about this!
As for my favourite episode - 'Last Christmas' might be the one for me too, although the Doctor's line in 'Dark Water', "Do you think I care for you so little that youe betrayal would make any difference to me?" (or something like that) I think is magical.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 6, 2020 22:13:46 GMT
I agree. This development becomes more apparent on rewatches too, I find. There are many subtle changes to their relationship - and some not so subtle too! This is why I found Clara's behaviour immediately following Danny Pink's fate in 'Dark Water' a bit out-of-character. Clara seems to be settled with a lot of out of character moments. Sadly. But I think the worst offender still is in Deep Breath where she cannot accept an older 12. And this right after she had tea and biscuits with the War Doctor.
Never bought that.
It was a bit odd but I always interpreted it that even though Clara was aware of and spent time with other older Doctors she viewed 11 as her very own Doctor, and was scared of loosing the relationship they had after he changed into 12. Even if it doesn’t make logical sense, I think she was scared they wouldn’t have the same close bond and be able to relate to each other if he seemed much older than her. People sometimes don’t make logical sense, sometimes emotions overtake them in uncertain situations, and people have extreme reactions 🤷🏻♀️ The out of universe reason for her reaction in Deep Breath, comes down to Moffat wanting to reflect/satirize some young female Doctor Who fans rather extreme reaction to 12 not being a young heartthrob. I agree that it is an odd character beat but I sort of see where Clara could have that reaction in Deep Breath🤔
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 6, 2020 22:27:03 GMT
Clara seems to be settled with a lot of out of character moments. Sadly. But I think the worst offender still is in Deep Breath where she cannot accept an older 12. And this right after she had tea and biscuits with the War Doctor.
Never bought that.
It was a bit odd but I always interpreted it that even though Clara was aware of and spent time with other older Doctors she viewed 11 as her very own Doctor, and was scared of loosing the relationship they had after he changed into 12. Even if it doesn’t make logical sense, I think she was scared they wouldn’t have the same close bond and be able to relate to each other if he seemed much older than her. People sometimes don’t make logical sense, sometimes emotions overtake them in uncertain situations, and people have extreme reactions 🤷🏻♀️ The out of universe reason for her reaction in Deep Breath, comes down to Moffat wanting to reflect/satirize some young female Doctor Who fans rather extreme reaction to 12 not being a young heartthrob. I agree that it is an odd character beat but I sort of see where Clara could have that reaction in Deep Breath🤔 I absolutely love and adore Stephen Moffat. But I thought using Clara as a plot device more often than a real character was pretty clumsy. And yes, I get what the intention was behind what he did in Deep Breath- it just does not make any logical sense to me in universe. At all. When I watched Deep Breath for the first time, I did NOT like it. Later on, I came to appreciate it more and I now absolutely love all the bada$$ Doctor scenes (him rescuing Clara from the machine men and of course the battle of wits in the air ship). But the characterization of Clara ? Very disappointing. Just too clumsy.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 6, 2020 22:29:25 GMT
It was a bit odd but I always interpreted it that even though Clara was aware of and spent time with other older Doctors she viewed 11 as her very own Doctor, and was scared of loosing the relationship they had after he changed into 12. Even if it doesn’t make logical sense, I think she was scared they wouldn’t have the same close bond and be able to relate to each other if he seemed much older than her. People sometimes don’t make logical sense, sometimes emotions overtake them in uncertain situations, and people have extreme reactions 🤷🏻♀️ The out of universe reason for her reaction in Deep Breath, comes down to Moffat wanting to reflect/satirize some young female Doctor Who fans rather extreme reaction to 12 not being a young heartthrob. I agree that it is an odd character beat but I sort of see where Clara could have that reaction in Deep Breath🤔 I absolutely love and adore Stephen Moffat. But I thought using Clara as a plot device more often than a real character was pretty clumsy. And yes, I get what the intention was behind what he did in Deep Breath- it just does not make any logical sense to me in universe. At all. When I watched Deep Breath for the first time, I did NOT like it. Later on, I came to appreciate it more and I now absolutely love all the bada$$ Doctor scenes (him rescuing Clara from the machine men and of course the battle of wits in the air ship). But the characterization of Clara ? Very disappointing. Just too clumsy.
To be fair I think it took them a while to get Clara’s character right 🤔
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Post by timegirl on Jul 6, 2020 23:22:41 GMT
Clara seems to be settled with a lot of out of character moments. Sadly. But I think the worst offender still is in Deep Breath where she cannot accept an older 12. And this right after she had tea and biscuits with the War Doctor.
Never bought that.
I have to agree with that too. She'd spent some considerable time in the company of all Doctors up to that point, and was well familiar with regeneration. So as you say, why so unaccepting of Doctor Twelve - somehow Matt being 'her Doctor' isn't quite enough to explain it. I do, however, love how the two of them get to know each other throughout Series 8 - and don't always like what they find! A good, complex - if not always consistent - relationship (just like most relationships, perhaps - or maybe just mine ). I always found there to be an almost “Beauty and the Beast” quality to their complex relationship. With the way the Doctor was youthful and more traditionally attractive and approachable in his 11th incarnation and then when he changed into the older harsher gaunt more temperamental 12th incarnation it almost felt as though he viewed himself as under a “curse” the way he saw his new life as a clerical error. Clara has a lot of similarities to Belle/Beauty the way she was an educated young woman who yearned for more in life and how she tried to help 12 (her beast) find more human connection. 12 and Clara’s relationship like the Beast and Belle’s started out very rough but then they grew to understand each other over time. No, 12 didn’t transform into a handsome prince but Clara’s influences did help motivate his looks and more importantly his personality soften over time.
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Post by polly on Jul 7, 2020 0:17:27 GMT
Flatline.
Series 8 of 'nu Who' gets slated by some, but I really enjoyed it all (except perhaps for In the Forest of the Night).
Flatline is great. True horror - in fact, it could stand very well as a horror film in its own right. Amazing that Doctor Who produces stories like this every week! The Boneless are terrific and chilling, the cast are great and the realisation of The Doctor's shrinking TARDIS is convincing. This is one of the best, and slightly underrated, I think.
I rewatched that episode recently too! It is brilliant and truly terrifying!😱 I love series 8 too(along with the rest of the Capaldi era😉) Series 8 has brilliant character development for 12 and Clara!😊 I'll add my two cents to the Series 8 love train. It won me over after I'd been really turned off by 6 and 7. Got turned off again, eventually, but credit where it's due. Even the episodes I don't like, I thought Capaldi's performance was really refreshing. Listen, Mummy, and Flatline are all outstanding.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 7, 2020 0:20:30 GMT
I rewatched that episode recently too! It is brilliant and truly terrifying!😱 I love series 8 too(along with the rest of the Capaldi era😉) Series 8 has brilliant character development for 12 and Clara!😊 I'll add my two cents to the Series 8 love train. It won me over after I'd been really turned off by 6 and 7. Got turned off again, eventually, but credit where it's due. Even the episode I don't like, I thought Capaldi's performance was really refreshing. Listen, Mummy, and Flatline are all outstanding. Yay! Always nice to hear from more people who enjoy series 8!😀
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jul 7, 2020 0:53:04 GMT
I'll add my two cents to the Series 8 love train. It won me over after I'd been really turned off by 6 and 7. Got turned off again, eventually, but credit where it's due. Even the episode I don't like, I thought Capaldi's performance was really refreshing. Listen, Mummy, and Flatline are all outstanding. Yay! Always nice to hear from more people who enjoy series 8!😀 Agree: Series 6 and 7 were not highlights for me. Individual episodes were great but the whole was a bit rubbish. I was glad that we got a clean slate and less garbled storytelling for the Capaldi era, which is when - and I’ve said this before - I started watching like a fan again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 7:36:37 GMT
It was a bit odd but I always interpreted it that even though Clara was aware of and spent time with other older Doctors she viewed 11 as her very own Doctor, and was scared of loosing the relationship they had after he changed into 12. Even if it doesn’t make logical sense, I think she was scared they wouldn’t have the same close bond and be able to relate to each other if he seemed much older than her. People sometimes don’t make logical sense, sometimes emotions overtake them in uncertain situations, and people have extreme reactions 🤷🏻♀️ The out of universe reason for her reaction in Deep Breath, comes down to Moffat wanting to reflect/satirize some young female Doctor Who fans rather extreme reaction to 12 not being a young heartthrob. I agree that it is an odd character beat but I sort of see where Clara could have that reaction in Deep Breath🤔 I absolutely love and adore Stephen Moffat. But I thought using Clara as a plot device more often than a real character was pretty clumsy. And yes, I get what the intention was behind what he did in Deep Breath- it just does not make any logical sense to me in universe. At all. When I watched Deep Breath for the first time, I did NOT like it. Later on, I came to appreciate it more and I now absolutely love all the bada$$ Doctor scenes (him rescuing Clara from the machine men and of course the battle of wits in the air ship). But the characterization of Clara ? Very disappointing. Just too clumsy.
Yeah, it all got a bit too meta. *scratches brow* I find that's a recurring problem with Moffat era Who. Strong concepts, typically strong executions, but the characters tend to be forgotten beneath what the author wanted to say to their audience 1. It's a bit of a shame, in that respect, because the characterisations were what I really enjoyed about Bill and Nardole when they showed up. The pair had good, solid personalities. One tapping into that wide-eyed newcomer's excitement. The other with the knowledge of a longtime fan. Someone getting to know and someone who knew the Doctor, so we got to see the Twelfth Doctor open up in a way we'd never quite seen before. Series 10 remains a real highlight, actually... The final special was an episode too far, personally, but the remainder of it was rather clever. I liked how the season managed to balance the Chris Carter effect of story arcs, being individual stories in their own right, but all contributing to the final story arc. 1 - Twice Upon a Time being the more egregous example where it tried to throw shade on the sexism of the 60s... while failing to take into account that the female companions were often the ones leading the charge on revolutions (Barbara beating the brains of Morphoton [literally], mowing down Daleks in a truck, destroying the Animus in The Web Planet, Vicki chasing out the Doctor's assassin in The Romans, taking charge of Steven in The Time Meddler, or her revolt saving the travellers in The Space Museum, etc.). It tries to cancel out the actions of otherwise strong women by pretending they didn't happen. It's not a good look...
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 7, 2020 9:06:31 GMT
I absolutely love and adore Stephen Moffat. But I thought using Clara as a plot device more often than a real character was pretty clumsy. And yes, I get what the intention was behind what he did in Deep Breath- it just does not make any logical sense to me in universe. At all. When I watched Deep Breath for the first time, I did NOT like it. Later on, I came to appreciate it more and I now absolutely love all the bada$$ Doctor scenes (him rescuing Clara from the machine men and of course the battle of wits in the air ship). But the characterization of Clara ? Very disappointing. Just too clumsy.
Yeah, it all got a bit too meta. *scratches brow* I find that's a recurring problem with Moffat era Who. Strong concepts, typically strong executions, but the characters tend to be forgotten beneath what the author wanted to say to their audience 1. It's a bit of a shame, in that respect, because the characterisations were what I really enjoyed about Bill and Nardole when they showed up. The pair had good, solid personalities. One tapping into that wide-eyed newcomer's excitement. The other with the knowledge of a longtime fan. Someone getting to know and someone who knew the Doctor, so we got to see the Twelfth Doctor open up in a way we'd never quite seen before. Series 10 remains a real highlight, actually... The final special was an episode too far, personally, but the remainder of it was rather clever. I liked how the season managed to balance the Chris Carter effect of story arcs, being individual stories in their own right, but all contributing to the final story arc. 1 - Twice Upon a Time being the more egregous example where it tried to throw shade on the sexism of the 60s... while failing to take into account that the female companions were often the ones leading the charge on revolutions (Barbara beating the brains of Morphoton [literally], mowing down Daleks in a truck, destroying the Animus in The Web Planet, Vicki chasing out the Doctor's assassin in The Romans, taking charge of Steven in The Time Meddler, or her revolt saving the travellers in The Space Museum, etc.). It tries to cancel out the actions of otherwise strong women by pretending they didn't happen. It's not a good look...Agreed. For me too series 10 was the highlight so far.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 9:21:51 GMT
Yeah, it all got a bit too meta. *scratches brow* I find that's a recurring problem with Moffat era Who. Strong concepts, typically strong executions, but the characters tend to be forgotten beneath what the author wanted to say to their audience 1. It's a bit of a shame, in that respect, because the characterisations were what I really enjoyed about Bill and Nardole when they showed up. The pair had good, solid personalities. One tapping into that wide-eyed newcomer's excitement. The other with the knowledge of a longtime fan. Someone getting to know and someone who knew the Doctor, so we got to see the Twelfth Doctor open up in a way we'd never quite seen before. Series 10 remains a real highlight, actually... The final special was an episode too far, personally, but the remainder of it was rather clever. I liked how the season managed to balance the Chris Carter effect of story arcs, being individual stories in their own right, but all contributing to the final story arc. 1 - Twice Upon a Time being the more egregous example where it tried to throw shade on the sexism of the 60s... while failing to take into account that the female companions were often the ones leading the charge on revolutions (Barbara beating the brains of Morphoton [literally], mowing down Daleks in a truck, destroying the Animus in The Web Planet, Vicki chasing out the Doctor's assassin in The Romans, taking charge of Steven in The Time Meddler, or her revolt saving the travellers in The Space Museum, etc.). It tries to cancel out the actions of otherwise strong women by pretending they didn't happen. It's not a good look...Agreed. For me too series 10 was the highlight so far. Oh, definitely. World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls feels like its up there with Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone, Vincent and the Doctor, The Snowmen and Heaven Sent for me. Just really good television. All that build up with an excellent payoff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 10:39:45 GMT
I have to agree with that too. She'd spent some considerable time in the company of all Doctors up to that point, and was well familiar with regeneration. So as you say, why so unaccepting of Doctor Twelve - somehow Matt being 'her Doctor' isn't quite enough to explain it. I do, however, love how the two of them get to know each other throughout Series 8 - and don't always like what they find! A good, complex - if not always consistent - relationship (just like most relationships, perhaps - or maybe just mine ). I always found there to be an almost “Beauty and the Beast” quality to their complex relationship. With the way the Doctor was youthful and more traditionally attractive and approachable in his 11th incarnation and then when he changed into the older harsher gaunt more temperamental 12th incarnation it almost felt as though he viewed himself as under a “curse” the way he saw his new life as a clerical error. Clara has a lot of similarities to Belle/Beauty the way she was an educated young woman who yearned for more in life and how she tried to help 12 (her beast) find more human connection. 12 and Clara’s relationship like the Beast and Belle’s started out very rough but then they grew to understand each other over time. No, 12 didn’t transform into a handsome prince but Clara’s influences did help motivate his looks and more importantly his personality soften over time. This is fascinating, I love it. I remember Colin Baker saying that his Doctor was similar to Peter Capaldi's, and I can see that - but only to an extent. With Old Sixie, we had a big burly man shouting and trying to strangle his young female companion (a big miss-step, I think, and I'm sure Peri would agree) in his first story. With Doctor 12, the similarities are there, but much more nuanced and less superficial. I don't think 12's complex character was fully explored before he became gradually softer as his series went on, but it was still very interesting (I hope, hope, hope Big Finish will get the chance to explore his inner battles at some point). I do feel that 12 should have bowed out with 'The Doctor Falls', however. Whilst teaming him up with David Bradley was great, the story really wasn't there in my view. His battle against the Cybermen would have been a far more heroic dispatch, and would have left little time for his overlong speech at the end.
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