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Post by timegirl on Jul 31, 2021 15:01:24 GMT
(We may be going off topic here, but)
I always understood that a 'Social Justice Warrior' was somebody who was insincere or whose motivations were suspect; who wasn't (apparently, or suspect of being) driven by compassion or an understanding of people's issues and how they inter-relate, but by the desire to have a cause; any cause, even a cause that they would have opposed a few years previously in their career of campaigning (usually, to have a cause that's opposed by specific people). I'm sure we can all think of heroes with feet of clay, demanding justice for minorities (but not neccessarily openly discussing very many groups) or greater opportunities/targeted policies for people who'll then turn round and vote for them - regardless of political affiliation, I'm sure everybody could think of a few examples (although I wouldn't suggest starting to list them here).
Similarly, virtue signalling - it's not virtue signalling just becaus you espouse a cause *unless* you can't reasonably expect anything you say or do to change anything. If you hope to change people's minds, if only a few, and not even people who are influential, then you're not virtue signalling, but if you're only preaching to the choir and/or to people who are never going to respond, then (even if you never intended it as such) your only gain is self-aggrandisment; *that* would be virtue-signalling.
That's why it's important to reclaim names, to own them. Diffuse their power. Take away the negative connotations. Then you're being shot at by blanks. What if 14’s in universe nickname was “The Social Justice Warrior”?🤔😀
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 31, 2021 15:02:15 GMT
That's what those on the right think when they use the term SJW. But those on the right are foul. Fair enough; do you have a preferred term of abuse? No
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 31, 2021 15:04:14 GMT
That's why it's important to reclaim names, to own them. Diffuse their power. Take away the negative connotations. Then you're being shot at by blanks. Somebody cannot be exempted from being superficial simply by not having a word to describe superficiality. If you're being called a Social Justice Warrior, surely the appropriate action is to explain your position and show that your views have merit and that you believe in them?
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 31, 2021 15:05:54 GMT
Fair enough; do you have a preferred term of abuse? No
So, you reserve the right to dismiss other people as foul but object to being criticised yourself? Ah, the internet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 15:09:31 GMT
Forgive my ignorance, but what are NMD types? Thanks in advance. Not My Doctors, whovians who oppose Jodie as the Doctor on the sole basis that she is female rather than any legitimate criticism and also oppose any political DW episodes despite the fact that DW has been political since the beginning. Its a funny thing how that acronym (NMD) proliferated despite being the unhealthy pursuit of a vocal minority who have had four years to just let it go. There is a big element of Not My Star Trek & Not My Star Wars online but maybe its because their own complaints are so varied (and they are simply impossible to please as a single entity), they have not been so neatly pigeonholed. The thing is, any 'victory' is a potentially pyrrhic one, or conversely whereby change and continuity is enacted, it actually has nothing to do with them.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 31, 2021 15:16:01 GMT
So, you reserve the right to dismiss other people as foul but object to being criticised yourself? Ah, the internet.
You asked if I had a preferred term of abuse. I said no. Didn't say I objected to being criticized just that, as my response clearly indicates, I don't have a preferred term of abuse. Who does? Very strange question from you if I may add.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 31, 2021 15:19:18 GMT
Not My Doctors, whovians who oppose Jodie as the Doctor on the sole basis that she is female rather than any legitimate criticism and also oppose any political DW episodes despite the fact that DW has been political since the beginning. Its a funny thing how that acronym (NMD) proliferated despite being the unhealthy pursuit of a vocal minority who have had four years to just let it go. There is a big element of Not My Star Trek & Not My Star Wars online but maybe its because their own complaints are so varied (and they are simply impossible to please as a single entity), they have not been so neatly pigeonholed. The thing is, any 'victory' is a potentially pyrrhic one, or conversely whereby change and continuity is enacted, it actually has nothing to do with them. Well they'll keep shoving themselves back into the conversation, regardless of context, as anyone unfortunate enough to see comments on DW Facebook posts can attest to. -Post about Big Finish: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. -Birthday shoutout to Colin: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. -Young fan wins costume contest at school dressed like a Dalek: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. The script never changes.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 31, 2021 15:22:43 GMT
I don't have a preferred term of abuse. Who does? Very strange question from you if I may add. I'm confused, I think you may be arguing both sides of the street. Am I correct in understanding that you object to person A calling person B (you, or somebody else) a Social Justice Warrior, but it's nevertheless OK for you to call person A foul? Is 'foul' really to be considered *less* offensive than 'Social Justice Warrior'? Is it not fair to say that to dismiss a huge swathe of people (as 'foul') without close examination of the various different views contained therein, is precisely the kind of behaviour that people are objecting to when they call others Social Justice Warriors? Because there's no attempt to analyse, no attempt to understand, no attempt to differentiate, just a sweeping statement?
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 31, 2021 15:23:50 GMT
Well they'll keep shoving themselves back into the conversation, regardless of context, as anyone unfortunate enough to see comments on DW Facebook posts can attest to. [/div] -Post about Big Finish: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. -Birthday shoutout to Colin: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. -Young fan wins costume contest at school dressed like a Dalek: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. The script never changes.
[/quote] You left out "somebody tell Jason Haigh-Ellery that Nick Briggs is recording recast audios behind his back and not animating an eighth Doctor tv series".....
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Post by timegirl on Jul 31, 2021 15:29:50 GMT
Hey guys how about we talk about something else? this is starting to devolve into name calling😕
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 15:33:59 GMT
Its a funny thing how that acronym (NMD) proliferated despite being the unhealthy pursuit of a vocal minority who have had four years to just let it go. There is a big element of Not My Star Trek & Not My Star Wars online but maybe its because their own complaints are so varied (and they are simply impossible to please as a single entity), they have not been so neatly pigeonholed. The thing is, any 'victory' is a potentially pyrrhic one, or conversely whereby change and continuity is enacted, it actually has nothing to do with them. Well they'll keep shoving themselves back into the conversation, regardless of context, as anyone unfortunate enough to see comments on DW Facebook posts can attest to. -Post about Big Finish: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. -Birthday shoutout to Colin: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. -Young fan wins costume contest at school dressed like a Dalek: Jodie is evil and firing white guys. The script never changes.
I have to admit, fortunately, that I do not follow any Facebook groups - this does nothing to dissuade me. I keep my interest in the series, as far as online reading, to this forum, and Twitter, where you can pick and choose those whose sentiments validate ones own, with the occasional reconnaissance to other more edgy viewpoints. The thing is, as you will be aware, I may not be a fan of the current era, but I have made clear that I prefer not to dislike, but simply respect that others do like it and am pleased for them. I do not watch it and consequently have no position to criticise it, which I have refrained from. Its not bad, just not for me. I have no time for the haters, who really need to pursue other interests if it affects them so adversely.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 31, 2021 15:44:58 GMT
While 11’s era is always considered the fairytale era of DW, the first half of 12’s era (when he is traveling with Clara) is just as much a fairytale but a different kind. Where 11’s story is Peter Pan, 12’s (well later 11 into early/mid 12) is a take on Beauty and the Beast. This is something I think needs exploring in BF and expanded universe.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 15:59:13 GMT
While 11’s era is always considered the fairytale era of DW, the first half of 12’s era (when he is traveling with Clara) is just as much a fairytale but a different kind. Where 11’s story is Peter Pan, 12’s (well later 11 into early/mid 12) is a take on Beauty and the Beast. This is something I think needs exploring in BF and expanded universe. I think it's a bit unfair to describe Clara as a beast.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 31, 2021 16:03:32 GMT
While 11’s era is always considered the fairytale era of DW, the first half of 12’s era (when he is traveling with Clara) is just as much a fairytale but a different kind. Where 11’s story is Peter Pan, 12’s (well later 11 into early/mid 12) is a take on Beauty and the Beast. This is something I think needs exploring in BF and expanded universe. I think it's a bit unfair to describe Clara as a beast.
🤨😄
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 16:10:31 GMT
I think it's a bit unfair to describe Clara as a beast.
🤨😄
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Post by timegirl on Jul 31, 2021 16:59:40 GMT
While 11’s era is always considered the fairytale era of DW, the first half of 12’s era (when he is traveling with Clara) is just as much a fairytale but a different kind. Where 11’s story is Peter Pan, 12’s (well later 11 into early/mid 12) is a take on Beauty and the Beast. This is something I think needs exploring in BF and expanded universe. I think it's a bit unfair to describe Clara as a beast.
I know you were joking but you do bring up an interesting point actually: Clara while helping 12 become less internally beastly, pick up some of his internally if not externally ( although she did briefly age in last Christmas) pick up some of 12’s more beastly traits herself.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 31, 2021 17:23:53 GMT
I think it's a bit unfair to describe Clara as a beast.
I know you were joking but you do bring up an interesting point actually: Clara while helping 12 become less internally beastly, pick up some of his internally if not externally ( although she did briefly age in last Christmas) pick up some of 12’s more beastly traits herself. Hmmmm... Oh, I dunno... I guess I like thinking that it's more like they bring out the best in each other.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 31, 2021 17:27:29 GMT
I know you were joking but you do bring up an interesting point actually: Clara while helping 12 become less internally beastly, pick up some of his internally if not externally ( although she did briefly age in last Christmas) pick up some of 12’s more beastly traits herself. Hmmmm... Oh, I dunno... I guess I like thinking that it's more like they bring out the best in each other. I think it’s both they pick up the best and worst of each other. But as I have said before the good out ways the bad with those two😊
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 17:27:42 GMT
I know you were joking but you do bring up an interesting point actually: Clara while helping 12 become less internally beastly, pick up some of his internally if not externally ( although she did briefly age in last Christmas) pick up some of 12’s more beastly traits herself. Hmmmm... Oh, I dunno... I guess I like thinking that it's more like they bring out the best in each other. Not sure it's appropriate, but I can imagine 12 saying of Clara: "ooh, she was a Beast!"I'll get my coat...
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Post by timegirl on Jul 31, 2021 17:28:32 GMT
Hmmmm... Oh, I dunno... I guess I like thinking that it's more like they bring out the best in each other. Not sure it's appropriate, but I can imagine 12 saying of Clara: "ooh, she was a Beast!"I'll get my coat... In a loving way though
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