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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 1, 2016 17:34:14 GMT
I don't see the harm in doing Season 6B. It could allow for a lot of imaginative ideas and maybe even a 'The Second Doctor: The Last Adventure' featuring the 2nd Doctor's actual regeneration. I hadn't even thought about that! Getting another regeneration story can't be a bad thing. Indeed. The more regeneration stories, the better. |
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aztec
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Post by aztec on May 1, 2016 17:46:16 GMT
I hadn't even thought about that! Getting another regeneration story can't be a bad thing. Indeed. The more regeneration stories, the better. I believe the 2nd Doctor already has at least 2 (obscure admittedly) regeneration stories, the fan film Devious (which I haven't seen) and the comic story The Night Walkers (which I haven't read): www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRszcpTdWjM...I swear Nick Briggs mentioned in a podcast aaages ago that he was open to adapting the 60's comics... |
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Post by icecreamdf on May 1, 2016 18:23:01 GMT
The Second Doctor already has a regeneration story. In fact, be has the single best regeneration story of any of the Doctors. See, this is my problem with 6B. The War Games is the finale to the Second Doctor era, but now people want to undermine that by setting stories after that, and giving him a new regeneration story. Nothing Big Finish can do would ever live up to The War Games.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on May 1, 2016 18:33:56 GMT
The Second Doctor already has a regeneration story. In fact, be has the single best regeneration story of any of the Doctors. See, this is my problem with 6B. The War Games is the finale to the Second Doctor era, but now people want to undermine that by setting stories after that, and giving him a new regeneration story. Nothing Big Finish can do would ever live up to The War Games. The War Games is possibly my favourite TV story of the entire Classic Run (well, at least of the stuff I've seen so far), and whilst I do understand why some feel 6b undermines it, for me it's a fascinating theory I'd be open to BF exploring if they were inclined... Some would argue the 5th Doctor's desperate attempt to save Peri (who he dosen't know very well) in Caves of Androzani was undermined by BF placing over a dozen new stories (and a brand new companion) before it... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 19:12:12 GMT
In answer to the OP; if BF decided to do 6B stories I'd feel great - as would my wallet - as I wouldn't be buying them. For me 6B is a fan theory that is best consigned to the 'it seemed like a good idea at the time' shelf. The War Games is a fitting end to the Second Doctor's era in my world...
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 1, 2016 19:34:33 GMT
The Second Doctor already has a regeneration story. In fact, be has the single best regeneration story of any of the Doctors. See, this is my problem with 6B. The War Games is the finale to the Second Doctor era, but now people want to undermine that by setting stories after that, and giving him a new regeneration story. Nothing Big Finish can do would ever live up to The War Games. You don't actually see the regeneration though. You never see Patrick Troughton become Jon Pertwee. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 19:46:56 GMT
Season 6B has not been quashed by The Black Hole. Only the placement of The Two Doctors in Season 6B has. The Five Doctors would still need to take place after The War Games for the Second Doctor. Season 6B is really meaningless if you don't place The Two Doctors there though. The entire point of 6B is to explain all the plot holes in the Two Doctors. The Five Doctors is easy to explain without 6B. The Doctor wanted to talk to the Brigadier alone, so Jamie and Zoe are doing their own thing in 20th century Earth. The Brigadier, who doesn't fully understand all this time travel stuff, mentions that Jamie and Zoe were sent home by the Time Lords. Not at all, 6B was first invented by TV comic before Spearhead aired to give them some more Troughton stories to run. |
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Post by icecreamdf on May 1, 2016 21:42:30 GMT
The Second Doctor already has a regeneration story. In fact, be has the single best regeneration story of any of the Doctors. See, this is my problem with 6B. The War Games is the finale to the Second Doctor era, but now people want to undermine that by setting stories after that, and giving him a new regeneration story. Nothing Big Finish can do would ever live up to The War Games. You don't actually see the regeneration though. You never see Patrick Troughton become Jon Pertwee. The Doctor falls into a crazy special effect and the Time Lord says "the time has come for you to change your appearance and begin your exile." Its pretty clear that the Doctor's heads spinning around in the crazy black void was meant to be his regeneration, and Spearhead from Space is meant to pick up shortly afterwards. Sure, we don't actually see him turn into Jon Pertwee, but thats like saying that we didn't see the War Doctor's regeneration because we didn't actually see him turn into Christopher Eccleston. |
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Post by icecreamdf on May 1, 2016 21:47:24 GMT
Season 6B is really meaningless if you don't place The Two Doctors there though. The entire point of 6B is to explain all the plot holes in the Two Doctors. The Five Doctors is easy to explain without 6B. The Doctor wanted to talk to the Brigadier alone, so Jamie and Zoe are doing their own thing in 20th century Earth. The Brigadier, who doesn't fully understand all this time travel stuff, mentions that Jamie and Zoe were sent home by the Time Lords. Not at all, 6B was first invented by TV comic before Spearhead aired to give them some more Troughton stories to run. I don't really care who came up with 6B, but if I understand correctly, the TV comics had the Second Doctor exilded to Earth for a little bit before the Time Lords got around to changing his appearance. It seems like that was just combined with the 6B theory years later, after it was invented to explain the Two Doctors. Or, did the TV comics have the Doctor working for the CIA? Besides, aren't TV comics the one who brought us John and Gillian. I always just sort of assumed that nobody considered them canon. |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 1, 2016 21:57:41 GMT
You don't actually see the regeneration though. You never see Patrick Troughton become Jon Pertwee. The Doctor falls into a crazy special effect and the Time Lord says "the time has come for you to change your appearance and begin your exile." Its pretty clear that the Doctor's heads spinning around in the crazy black void was meant to be his regeneration, and Spearhead from Space is meant to pick up shortly afterwards. Sure, we don't actually see him turn into Jon Pertwee, but thats like saying that we didn't see the War Doctor's regeneration because we didn't actually see him turn into Christopher Eccleston. I don't think it's actually clear at all. It could be the Doctor's paranoia in his mind sending him dizzy. It's not your standard regeneration effect like War-9 is the new series' golden regeneration energy. |
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Post by icecreamdf on May 1, 2016 23:05:15 GMT
The Doctor falls into a crazy special effect and the Time Lord says "the time has come for you to change your appearance and begin your exile." Its pretty clear that the Doctor's heads spinning around in the crazy black void was meant to be his regeneration, and Spearhead from Space is meant to pick up shortly afterwards. Sure, we don't actually see him turn into Jon Pertwee, but thats like saying that we didn't see the War Doctor's regeneration because we didn't actually see him turn into Christopher Eccleston. I don't think it's actually clear at all. It could be the Doctor's paranoia in his mind sending him dizzy. It's not your standard regeneration effect like War-9 is the new series' golden regeneration energy. When the effect begins, the Doctor asks what's happenning and the Time Lords give him an answer. Its not at all ambiguous. |
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 1, 2016 23:11:18 GMT
I don't think it's actually clear at all. It could be the Doctor's paranoia in his mind sending him dizzy. It's not your standard regeneration effect like War-9 is the new series' golden regeneration energy. To be fair, the classic series didn't really have a standard regeneration effect. The Doctor never had a standard regeneration other than the first. which was a bright glowing glowiness. The second regeneration happened "off screen", the third had to be triggered and controlled, the fourth was a merging of Doctor and Watcher. one could argue that the purpleiness of the fifth regeneration was a result of him expelling all the spectrox but was on the whole a standard regeneration and the sixth was him expelling all the radiation he'd absorbed from the Rabi's weapon. even the seventh regeneration is described as being wrong, he was "dead too long this time" so instead of glowing yellow fire, he only managed a few sparks of fizzle. |
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Post by jason on May 1, 2016 23:38:01 GMT
I do think that the 'Season 6B' idea craps on the brilliant The War Games somewhat - though hasn't that ship sailed as of The Two Doctors, at least?
Unless you really want to tell a story with the Second Doctor in particular interacting with Time Lords, would there be much point? Almost any other story could be told pre-War Games.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 1:03:18 GMT
You haven't heard of Devious or the Second-and-a-Half Doctor by any chance? No. That means nothing to me. As I said the Second Doctor era doesn't really interest me. It was before my time. The Fourth Doctor on TV was my Doctor. When he left Doctor Who I basically did too. That was until Big Finish came along! It was a fan film that co-starred Peter Tuddenham (the voice of Orac) and Anneke Wills (Polly Wright) alongside this interim Doctor and featured a cameo by Jon Pertwee in his last performance as the Third Doctor before his passing. The group responsible for the film assisted with supplying all nine of their Daleks for two stage plays starring Nick Scovell and the Comic Relief special The Curse of Fatal Death. The whole thing has never been released in full, but you can find clips of it on The War Games DVD. www.doctorwho-devious.com/wargamesIt gained a surprising amount of traction actually, so much so that a Second-and-a-Half Doctor appears in Rich Morris's The Ten Doctors as a mental projection conjured up by the Second because of his close proximity (relatively speaking) to his immediate successor. If you want a continuity nightmare, he disappears with Jamie and Zoe into the TARDIS at the end of the story. My theory is that he evaporates shortly afterwards having served his purpose. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 6:58:40 GMT
You don't actually see the regeneration though. You never see Patrick Troughton become Jon Pertwee. The Doctor falls into a crazy special effect and the Time Lord says "the time has come for you to change your appearance and begin your exile." Its pretty clear that the Doctor's heads spinning around in the crazy black void was meant to be his regeneration, and Spearhead from Space is meant to pick up shortly afterwards. Sure, we don't actually see him turn into Jon Pertwee, but thats like saying that we didn't see the War Doctor's regeneration because we didn't actually see him turn into Christopher Eccleston. I agree with what is implied at the end of War Games, however it is also true that we don't see the actual regeneration from two to three. Devious makes a good case for how the regen can fit in offscreen and have other events in between. |
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 2, 2016 7:19:55 GMT
I do think that the 'Season 6B' idea craps on the brilliant The War Games somewhat - though hasn't that ship sailed as of The Two Doctors, at least? Unless you really want to tell a story with the Second Doctor in particular interacting with Time Lords, would there be much point? Almost any other story could be told pre- War Games. The Black Hole suffices IMO in allowing for "Two Doctors" to happen within the second Doctor's on-screen lifespan. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 8:17:22 GMT
The Doctor falls into a crazy special effect and the Time Lord says "the time has come for you to change your appearance and begin your exile." Its pretty clear that the Doctor's heads spinning around in the crazy black void was meant to be his regeneration, and Spearhead from Space is meant to pick up shortly afterwards. Sure, we don't actually see him turn into Jon Pertwee, but thats like saying that we didn't see the War Doctor's regeneration because we didn't actually see him turn into Christopher Eccleston. I agree with what is implied at the end of War Games, however it is also true that we don't see the actual regeneration from two to three. Devious makes a good case for how the regen can fit in offscreen and have other events in between. It's not impossible that at the end of his spiral he's abducted via time scoop by the CIA or through the temporal extraction chamber seen in Hell Bent. As to the regeneration itself, as soon as he starts spinning away into the abyss he's missing his facial features, an empty blackness where his head should be. Then again, he was supposed to regenerate in The Indestructible Man, but because of alien tissue injected into his physiology, he stabilised into his second self instead and used that energy to heal from the bullet wound to the back of his head. I'd say either situation is possible. I guess at this point is the question whether you'd like the series to end on "Fall Out" or whether you feel there's room for a story set after No. 6's time in the Village delving into what happened next. |
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Post by jason on May 2, 2016 12:16:37 GMT
I do think that the 'Season 6B' idea craps on the brilliant The War Games somewhat - though hasn't that ship sailed as of The Two Doctors, at least? Unless you really want to tell a story with the Second Doctor in particular interacting with Time Lords, would there be much point? Almost any other story could be told pre- War Games. The Black Hole suffices IMO in allowing for "Two Doctors" to happen within the second Doctor's on-screen lifespan. OK, gotta listen to that at some point! |
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Post by dastari on May 2, 2016 17:25:21 GMT
Season 6B has not been quashed by The Black Hole. Only the placement of The Two Doctors in Season 6B has. The Five Doctors would still need to take place after The War Games for the Second Doctor. It's actually very easy to even fix this apparent contradiction and still have The Two Doctors take place in 6B. The Doctor and Jamie both talk about avoiding the Sontarans and the Doctor says that they'll have to go back and have that adventure later. While John Dorney said that he took that line to be a flippant comment from the Doctor, there's no need for it to be. Since the Doctor and Jamie's memories are erased at the end of The Black Hole, continuity is preserved. |
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Post by icecreamdf on May 2, 2016 18:22:45 GMT
Season 6B has not been quashed by The Black Hole. Only the placement of The Two Doctors in Season 6B has. The Five Doctors would still need to take place after The War Games for the Second Doctor. It's actually very easy to even fix this apparent contradiction and still have The Two Doctors take place in 6B. The Doctor and Jamie both talk about avoiding the Sontarans and the Doctor says that they'll have to go back and have that adventure later. While John Dorney said that he took that line to be a flippant comment from the Doctor, there's no need for it to be. Since the Doctor and Jamie's memories are erased at the end of The Black Hole, continuity is preserved. Their memories being erased was just to explain why Six didn't remember the Stattenheim remote control, and why Jamie didn't know about the Time Lords in The War Games. If the Doctor wasn't being flippant, then we have to assume that Jamie was returned to the Doctor with his memory restored after the end of The War Games but Zoe wasn't, the Doctor and Jamie started travelling with Victoria again, Victoria decided to take a break to study graphology again, the Doctor obtained a stattenheim remote control again, the TARDIS interior changed to the 80s look again, and the Doctor was sent to talk to Dastari again. Either there were half a dozen coincidences, or the Doctor just didn't want to give the Monk the satisfaction of knowing how much trouble he caused. |
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