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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 12, 2016 23:07:01 GMT
Of course it's not but if the producer and the hotel staff made sure there was hot steak available the whole situation would never have happened. Firstly, your taking all responsibility away from the assailant, your victim blaming, secondly "if", I could generate so many "ifs" that would have avoided the situation that arose from arising, if Clarkson wasn't born, if Clarkson wasn't so arrogant, if Clarkson hadn't got self control issues, if Clarkson had just paid for his own meal he could have had what he wanted (the hotel didn't have hot food ready because none was ordered). Victims of crime may or may not have acted stupidly at some point, may or may not have been able to avoid the situation, may or may not just about anything, but the actions of the victim are not justification for another to break the law. By your reasoning, if I think something you say is reason for me to break the forums rules, perhaps calling you names, swearing and baiting you, then when I'm held to account for it, all I need to say is "Hey, I'm important round here, see I'm Admin, I can get away with stuff like that." If I was working alongside you as an admin how and had not done something that you had in this scenario asked me to do, if you were then to swear at me it would be my fault for not doing the thing in the first place.
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Post by jasonward on Jun 12, 2016 23:11:40 GMT
No.
One two counts:
If the rules are no swearing, then no swearing, end of. (BTW, that's not quite what our rules say). You miss characterise what happened with Clarkson, the producer was doing his job, it is the rules of the BBC and his bosses that dictate if/when and what type of food is made available, Clarkson reacted badly when he found the food on offer was not to his liking.
But anyway, I think I'm done with this convo, I'm not sure it has any juice left, just repetition.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 0:06:30 GMT
Andromeda. Robert Hewitt Wolfe left the show halfway through series two because of behind the scenes shenanigans, even though he was the one who help bring it to screen. I would bring him back for Season 3 and allow him to do the show how he wanted. ie The Coda he wrote Ditto. Just... so much ditto. The ditto is everywhere, it's on the walls, the ceiling, the floor. We're going to need some kind of mop. Such a wasted opportunity for what could have been such a brilliant series with a truly memorable cast. It's a show that truly could have gone places with its premise. I've got three other shows I'd like to have seen saved: The Man from U.N.C.L.E. went off the rails in Season 3 by passing that threshold into out-and-out goofiness that resulted in it going from the number one show in the United States (or thereabouts) and dropping to the point of no recovery. Aside from officially commissioning Harlan Ellison as a script editor, I'd have preferred if David Victor from Season 2 stayed producer rather than Boris Ingster even taking the part. Maybe even have Sam Rolfe return if he'd been willing. I'd like to have seen them try to adapt David McDaniel novels like The Dagger Affair or The Monster Wheel Affair as two-parters. Star Trek: Voyager was a brilliant concept that fell flat on its face after the pilot because it ultimately failed to engage with its initial setup. I'd have asked for more tensions between the Starfleet/Maquis crewmen, a more diverse Delta Quadrant, scripts solicited from authors in popular science fiction circles and magazines and a story arc for Janeway that pushes her from the role of just the captain of a Starfleet ship to the community of an intergenerational vessel. I could go on and on about this, but suffice to say that I would have had an assassination attempt on her life halfway through Season 1, put Species 8472 as the main antagonists to draw off, had the crew stranded in time as well as space with no knowledge of where they were, had them struggling to survive on no resources in a quadrant closer to Judge Dredd or a Philip K. Dick novel than anything we'd seen before, actually destroyed the ship halfway through the series, explored the Year of Hell and had Voyager join a caravan who they would help lead to safer climes. Crusade was a show that was mucked about with by executive producers before it even had the chance to get off the ground, so amongst stories like "The Path of Sorrows" (which has no real enemy to speak of, only a confessor who exists for the crew to repent their sins and be forgiven) and "The Needs of Earth" (an almost Blake's 7-style episode about censorship and the death of art), you got episodes like "War Zone" (which was a checklist of what the network executives wanted from the show). The Sci-Fi Channel were interested in picking up the idea but were stopped by a simple lack of budget for the series. Basically, I would have liked a change of fortune, I'd have liked Sci-Fi to pick up the series and put the raw footage of the first twelve episodes (barring "War Zone") through a process of beautification that would up the production values significantly, replace the soundtrack, give the show an actual title sequence and finish off the rest of the season's arc with what JMS originally intended; i.e. bringing the Apocalypse Box (an evil!Orac artefact) into focus and killing off Gideon. A show that really lost me was Star Trek: Enterprise. The first couple of seasons were reasonably entertaining - an interesting ensemble cast, a security officer who used to be that hairdresser off of Desmonds - and then they changed the format and the third and fourth series were a disaster. The first major error was the introduction of the overbearing Xindi story arc which was very downbeat, obviously political, and went on far too long to sustain viewer interest. The second was to centre every storyline on Captain Archer - if there was an away mission, he led it; if there was a chance to strip down to his vest and take on the bad guys single-handed, he did it. The rest of the cast were relegated to intergalactic cheerleaders waving pom-poms behind him and it seemed like such a waste. If I had a chance to fix it, I would have removed the story arcs entirely (story arcs are a particular pet peeve of mine as I feel they overshadow the plot of every episode and usually aren't worth it when they come to fruition). I would also have returned Enterprise to the ensemble cast model as with other Star Trek series - given all the cast something to do and allow their characters the chance to evolve naturally over time - and for each episode to explore something new and interesting. It just needed to be more fun! Chriss C. Way back in 2007 after the show had ended, a group of Trek fans got together and attempted to do a scriptfic rewrite of the show that manages to pretty much nail the original concept and turn it into a pretty fun ride to boot. They never finished it, but you can find half of their completed first season and the show's pilot here. It's a little heavy to begin with, but you might enjoy what they've done with the concept.
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Post by grazey on Jun 13, 2016 2:58:22 GMT
Firefly. Would have broadcast it in the correct order for starters
Star Trek voyager. Cut down the number of episodes per season to about 12-13 and focus on the getting home rather than 10 episodes where nothing really advances plot wise after the episode is done.
Dexter. End it in season 4. It just couldn't top it. Then it became ridiculous in 6 and 7 before ending with an awful finale which should never have been broadcast as they got it wrong
Misfits. Perfect ending was the end to season 3. Should have ended there. Season 4 was terrible. 5 was better but the damage was done
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Post by grazey on Jun 13, 2016 3:00:01 GMT
Controversial opinion but I thought top gear was going stale last year.
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Post by chrisscorkscrew on Jun 13, 2016 11:53:23 GMT
Star Trek: Voyager was a brilliant concept that fell flat on its face after the pilot because it ultimately failed to engage with its initial setup. I'd have asked for more tensions between the Starfleet/Maquis crewmen, a more diverse Delta Quadrant, scripts solicited from authors in popular science fiction circles and magazines and a story arc for Janeway that pushes her from the role of just the captain of a Starfleet ship to the community of an intergenerational vessel. I could go on and on about this, but suffice to say that I would have had an assassination attempt on her life halfway through Season 1, put Species 8472 as the main antagonists to draw off, had the crew stranded in time as well as space with no knowledge of where they were, had them struggling to survive on no resources in a quadrant closer to Judge Dredd or a Philip K. Dick novel than anything we'd seen before, actually destroyed the ship halfway through the series, explored the Year of Hell and had Voyager join a caravan who they would help lead to safer climes. A show that really lost me was Star Trek: Enterprise. The first couple of seasons were reasonably entertaining - an interesting ensemble cast, a security officer who used to be that hairdresser off of Desmonds - and then they changed the format and the third and fourth series were a disaster. The first major error was the introduction of the overbearing Xindi story arc which was very downbeat, obviously political, and went on far too long to sustain viewer interest. The second was to centre every storyline on Captain Archer - if there was an away mission, he led it; if there was a chance to strip down to his vest and take on the bad guys single-handed, he did it. The rest of the cast were relegated to intergalactic cheerleaders waving pom-poms behind him and it seemed like such a waste. If I had a chance to fix it, I would have removed the story arcs entirely (story arcs are a particular pet peeve of mine as I feel they overshadow the plot of every episode and usually aren't worth it when they come to fruition). I would also have returned Enterprise to the ensemble cast model as with other Star Trek series - given all the cast something to do and allow their characters the chance to evolve naturally over time - and for each episode to explore something new and interesting. It just needed to be more fun! Chriss C. Way back in 2007 after the show had ended, a group of Trek fans got together and attempted to do a scriptfic rewrite of the show that manages to pretty much nail the original concept and turn it into a pretty fun ride to boot. They never finished it, but you can find half of their completed first season and the show's pilot here. It's a little heavy to begin with, but you might enjoy what they've done with the concept. Thank you so much for the tip on Star Trek: Enterprise. I'll check it out. I'm also intrigued with your Voyager comments. I really liked Voyager (except for Chakotay in his immense giant smugness of being, who I could've flushed quite cheerfully down a blackhole), but your suggestions to improve it are actually really interesting, particularly being stranded in time, and really ramping up the peril by making Voyager a less comforable place to be (as it wasn't exactly slumming it - going through the Delta quandrant on a shiny new spaceship with holodeck privileges!). Chriss C.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jun 13, 2016 14:21:54 GMT
Controversial opinion but I thought top gear was going stale last year. Same as well, thats why I'm glad it changed. And what alot of people seem to forget....or choose to ignore is that the first season of the Clarkson/Hammond/May reboot, wasnt a ratings smash. It actually had lower ratings than what we've had so far for the Evans/LeBlanc series. Maybe they should bring in someone to make it a trio again
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 14:27:04 GMT
Well, to be fair in 2002 it wasn't expected to be a success. Their first few seasons together made it a sleeper hit. You can rest assured LeBlanc is getting paid more than all 3 of them were back then combined. Now, I hated the show with them - lowest common denominator claptrap watched by a lot of small minded reactionaries...but it's impossible to argue with its success.
Clarkson killed it though, not the BBC. They couldn't keep funding someone who was racking up bad PR by the caseload. When he was insulting minorities, he got away with it. When he used the "n" word, he got away with it. When he started getting violent? Well, he didn't any more. The golden goose died but there was nothing the BBC could do.
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Post by jasonward on Jun 13, 2016 16:55:39 GMT
... watched by a lot of small minded reactionaries... Err thanks, yeah, been watching Top Gear and enjoying since before the days of Clarkson et al, but wasn't aware that made me a small minded reactionary.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 13, 2016 19:43:36 GMT
Clarkson killed it though, not the BBC. They couldn't keep funding someone who was racking up bad PR by the caseload. When he was insulting minorities, he got away with it. When he used the "n" word, he got away with it. Clarkson didn't insult anyone, other people are just too easily offended. Also: he never said the 'N' word, he actually mumbled something that happened to sound like it.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 13, 2016 19:51:34 GMT
Alright alright, enough about Clarkson gents, it is really derailing this thread and taking it in a direction that could turn ugly. Agree to disagree about the man (even if I find his actions reprehensible) and get back to the topic please.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 3:03:51 GMT
... watched by a lot of small minded reactionaries... Err thanks, yeah, been watching Top Gear and enjoying since before the days of Clarkson et al, but wasn't aware that made me a small minded reactionary. Please read more carefully before being so eager to take umbrage. I didn't say all the viewers, I said it's a show that does attract a lot of audience members who do fit that description. That's why Clarkson writes his column for Murdoch and not elsewhere - a large crossover tabloid audience. If you've watched it since before they even joined I'd think you'd be smart enough to assume you're not in that group.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 3:09:02 GMT
Clarkson killed it though, not the BBC. They couldn't keep funding someone who was racking up bad PR by the caseload. When he was insulting minorities, he got away with it. When he used the "n" word, he got away with it. Clarkson didn't insult anyone, other people are just too easily offended. Also: he never said the 'N' word, he actually mumbled something that happened to sound like it. You don't get to decide who takes offence at what. Thank God. Here is his apology for using the N word, so please don't spout nonsense apologist claptrap that is patently untre. "Please be assured I did everything in my power to not use that word, as I'm sitting here begging your forgiveness for the fact my efforts obviously weren't quite good enough, thank you." Mumbling the word and saying the word are one and the same.
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Post by muckypup on Jun 14, 2016 3:29:52 GMT
Ok enough guys about top gear...I don't want us falling out over clarkson of all people.
Let's try and argue about more important stuff, like ....
Is the new danger mouse better than the old one, Should touchwood have had a forth series Did anyone ever watch & understand starfleet What the hell was lost all about
but lets just keep it friendly towards each other,
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Post by chrisscorkscrew on Jun 14, 2016 7:42:22 GMT
Ok enough guys about top gear...I don't want us falling out over clarkson of all people. Let's try and argue about more important stuff, like .... Is the new danger mouse better than the old one, Should touchwood have had a forth series Did anyone ever watch & understand starfleet What the hell was lost all about but lets just keep it friendly towards each other, Good thought. The old Danger Mouse is clearly far superior however (although I do like Dave Lamb's Narrator)... Chriss C. (who has just realised that people now know she went out of her way to watch the new Danger Mouse on CBBC *blush*).
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Post by muckypup on Jun 14, 2016 15:49:32 GMT
Ok enough guys about top gear...I don't want us falling out over clarkson of all people. Let's try and argue about more important stuff, like .... Is the new danger mouse better than the old one, Should touchwood have had a forth series Did anyone ever watch & understand starfleet What the hell was lost all about but lets just keep it friendly towards each other, Good thought. The old Danger Mouse is clearly far superior however (although I do like Dave Lamb's Narrator)... Chriss C. (who has just realised that people now know she went out of her way to watch the new Danger Mouse on CBBC *blush*). hell don't worry about that, I watch CBebbies for Bing at 9:15 every morning.....
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Post by jasonward on Jun 14, 2016 17:27:10 GMT
Good thought. The old Danger Mouse is clearly far superior however (although I do like Dave Lamb's Narrator)... Chriss C. (who has just realised that people now know she went out of her way to watch the new Danger Mouse on CBBC *blush*). I agree the original DM was better, but I did enjoy the new ones, I didn't go out my way to watch them, I just got my DVR to record them so I could watch at my own leisure, I guess it's a testament to the quality of the first DM that years later those now adults that remember it would make sure they watched the new series.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 14, 2016 17:57:07 GMT
Season 4 and 5 of Fringe, while not bad, did feel repetitive and nowhere near as inventive or spunky as the first three. I would've just gone on having fun with the idea of parallel universes and timelines while still tying it into the bigger mythology of the Observers and Walter's mad experiments.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 2:36:10 GMT
Thank you so much for the tip on Star Trek: Enterprise. I'll check it out. I'm also intrigued with your Voyager comments. I really liked Voyager (except for Chakotay in his immense giant smugness of being, who I could've flushed quite cheerfully down a blackhole), but your suggestions to improve it are actually really interesting, particularly being stranded in time, and really ramping up the peril by making Voyager a less comforable place to be (as it wasn't exactly slumming it - going through the Delta quandrant on a shiny new spaceship with holodeck privileges!). Chriss C. No worries. Always happy to point people in the direction of quality fanfiction wherever I can. Particularly for a series as slighted as poor Enterprise... I enjoyed Voyager quite a bit, but I was always frustrated by how safe they seemed to play everything and how absolutely wild Janeway's characterisation ended up becoming due to spats in the writer's room. To me, she seemed the most real when she was being the scientist and I thought she would be rather interesting as a character inspired by Dr. Ellie Arroway from Contact. Chakotay too I thought would make a very interesting Marko Ramius (the Soviet submarine captain from The Hunt for Red October) and having the two respect and like one another, but keep constantly butting heads over how to deal with the situation of the week would have made for an interesting dynamic. We saw it in "Scorpion," so why not all the time? I'd have liked to see it step out of its shadow as the TNG spin-off as DS9 had and become its own series. I rather like Kate Mulgrew as an actress actually, she has some very serious talent behind her. I stumbled across her memoir and from what I've heard she's led an absolutely fascinating life. After listening to the audiobook, I thought to myself: "It's very well to moan about Voyager going nowhere, but can you actually write it?" So, I decided to put my money where my mouth was and rewrite the whole thing season-by-season as a pet project between my studies. The potential was all there to begin with, it just needed to be let off its leash and run wild. As a writer, it drives me absolutely up the wall when there's a very, very decent idea buried beneath a poor execution. And I do enjoy a challenge.
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Post by chrisscorkscrew on Jun 15, 2016 12:48:50 GMT
...I enjoyed Voyager quite a bit, but I was always frustrated by how safe they seemed to play everything and how absolutely wild Janeway's characterisation ended up becoming due to spats in the writer's room. To me, she seemed the most real when she was being the scientist and I thought she would be rather interesting as a character inspired by Dr. Ellie Arroway from Contact. Chakotay too I thought would make a very interesting Marko Ramius (the Soviet submarine captain from The Hunt for Red October) and having the two respect and like one another, but keep constantly butting heads over how to deal with the situation of the week would have made for an interesting dynamic. We saw it in "Scorpion," so why not all the time? I'd have liked to see it step out of its shadow as the TNG spin-off as DS9 had and become its own series. I rather like Kate Mulgrew as an actress actually, she has some very serious talent behind her. I stumbled across her memoir and from what I've heard she's led an absolutely fascinating life. After listening to the audiobook, I thought to myself: "It's very well to moan about Voyager going nowhere, but can you actually write it?" So, I decided to put my money where my mouth was and rewrite the whole thing season-by-season as a pet project between my studies. The potential was all there to begin with, it just needed to be let off its leash and run wild. As a writer, it drives me absolutely up the wall when there's a very, very decent idea buried beneath a poor execution. And I do enjoy a challenge. I really enjoyed Voyager and stuck through it right to the end, but I agree that they played it a bit too safe all the way through. I think it may be a reflection of the fact it is a US show, and US TV royalty at that, that they didn't want to make it more confrontational and difficult. Something a bit less controlled than the model where every episode 'resets' at the end to the original mission home would potentially have been far more compelling, even if it made the characters a bit less cuddly. I'm really interested by your writing project. How far have you gotten? Chriss C.
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