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Brexit
Jun 23, 2016 19:11:03 GMT
Post by mark687 on Jun 23, 2016 19:11:03 GMT
Well I exercised my democratic right now to wait and see..
Regards
mark687
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Post by pawntake on Jun 23, 2016 19:45:58 GMT
For my money Boris and Michael Gove are the new Morecambe and Wise, throw in Nigel Farage, and we have the three stooges.I hope they do no not have the last laugh in the morning.
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Brexit
Jun 23, 2016 20:04:23 GMT
Post by icecreamdf on Jun 23, 2016 20:04:23 GMT
As an American, I don't really know or care much about whether or not Britain stays in the EU, but everything I know about Brexit comes from John Oliver. Going off on a tangent here, but I always find it amusing how popular/famous Oliver is in America, he's always brought up as some sort of bastion of British knowledge and culture that crosses the ocean both ways when in truth the vast majority of Brits would have little to no idea who he is, other than being one of the less funny blokes on early episodes of Mock The Week... Well, I mostly watch him because he usually talks about American issues, though it is interesting to hear about international issues that I don't know much about. Also, he's on most of my Classic Who DVDs.
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Brexit
Jun 23, 2016 21:51:19 GMT
Post by jasonward on Jun 23, 2016 21:51:19 GMT
Not a British citizen myself, but I'm really, really interested (and a little anxious) as to what the eventual results will be. Apparently, they haven't been doing exit polls for this ballot. I suspect this is confusion around exit polls, they are for sure being taken, I've read a BBC article about what to expect from them (which is basically not a lot). In the US and many places exit polls are available whilst people are still voting, in the UK it is illegal to reveal the result of an exit poll until after the polls have closed. OK - come confusion here, since I have read about exit polls being taken, but now I also read on the BBC website that there will be no exit poll. I have to admit I don't understand... but hey, for good or bad, the referendum is over and results will start to come in, in the next few hours.
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Brexit
Jun 23, 2016 22:03:33 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 22:03:33 GMT
I suspect this is confusion around exit polls, they are for sure being taken, I've read a BBC article about what to expect from them (which is basically not a lot). In the US and many places exit polls are available whilst people are still voting, in the UK it is illegal to reveal the result of an exit poll until after the polls have closed. OK - come confusion here, since I have read about exit polls being taken, but now I also read on the BBC website that there will be no exit poll. I have to admit I don't understand... but hey, for good or bad, the referendum is over and results will start to come in, in the next few hours. Pro. John Curtice, who is the BBC poll guru, explained that since his methodology is all based on precedence, and there is none for this, that any exit poll would only be as valid as the same Yougov polls we had this week. So it really is all down the results. FWIW, his own opinion looking at the numbers is that there will be a Remain win by at least 2%-5%. Farage also feels remain will "sneak" it.
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Brexit
Jun 23, 2016 22:11:41 GMT
Post by jasonward on Jun 23, 2016 22:11:41 GMT
Yeah, been looking into it further. There have been exit polls, but private ones which will not be published, the broadcasters, who normally take exit polls we see in public, have all this time opted not to do so.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 0:34:07 GMT
Post by muckypup on Jun 24, 2016 0:34:07 GMT
Anyone else staying up watching this unfold.
i am astonished at how well the leave camp are doing, but very early days.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 1:14:41 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 1:14:41 GMT
Anyone else staying up watching this unfold. i am astonished at how well the leave camp are doing, but very early days. Astonished doesn't cover it, Mucky. The North-East of England and Wales are going massively in favour of Brexit. None of the results, as early as it is, have seen Remain do better than expected. Scotland, meanwhile, has seen all the results be in favour of Remain, which will surely trigger a major constitutional issue if Brexit goes ahead but Scotland as a whole has refused it.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 1:18:18 GMT
via mobile
jason likes this
Post by kimalysong on Jun 24, 2016 1:18:18 GMT
Hoping for the best outcome for the UK!
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 1:42:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 1:42:26 GMT
Lambeth and Wandsworth results both BETTER than expected for Remain. If this is a pattern across London, it could be the difference maker.
It's now clear Scotland and London are heavily Remain. Wales and the North-East of England are heavily Leave.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 2:58:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 2:58:55 GMT
Remain now need a miracle to win this. Being massively wrong in my predictions is only offset by the fact that even Leave leaders were conceding a few hours ago. Now they're on the verge of opening the door to the worst right-wing filth this country can offer.
Scotland voting entirely for the EU means, along with a strong devolved parliament, she should fare OK with pressing ahead for Indy longer term but Remain voters in the rest of the UK? It's going to be a nightmare. Nowhere to turn but Prime Minister Boris....England, Wales and Northern Ireland are Turkeys who have voted for Christmas.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 4:03:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 4:03:13 GMT
Everyone calling it for leave....
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Post by muckypup on Jun 24, 2016 4:06:12 GMT
OMG....... will this be a bad call, well I suspect it will. in the short term at least.
it only goes to show how out of touch this country & Europe is on immigration.
because lets face it that's what has swung it, and the fact that the poorer communities are being hardest hit.
it's as I suspected there are more who actually voted to leave as they have little to lose, as a protest to those who appear to have plenty.
the constant villivication of working class poor areas buy both the tories & new labour has resulted in this bloody nose!
people who want a stable community, stable job, decent wage and some where they can call home are not racist or bigots.
afraid....yes but I saw this coming, and opposed to what my views might surest I still wanted & voted to stay!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 4:18:38 GMT
it's as I suspected there are more who actually voted to leave as they have little to lose, as a protest to those who appear to have plenty. This is what I don't get. I know you're not saying you believe that, Mucky, but I've seen it as a reason for many English voters. They're "sending a message to the political elite". Are they so pathetically stupid to think that Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith and Michael Gove AREN'T the political elite? The working class areas of England have opened the door to the most reactionary, right-wing scumbags this country has. They've handed them the keys to the kingdom out of fear and ignorance. It's a dark, dark day. The fallout has already been felt with the pound absolutely crashing. Scotland and Northern Ireland will start the proceedings to leave England and Wales to the mess. One of the major reasons Cameron said Scotland shouldn't be independent, remember, is they may not get in the EU. Well, Scotland has just voted ENTIRELY, every single area, to remain in the EU yet will not do so regardless of the people's will. That won't be allowed to stand with an ever increasing Independence movement and an SNP stronger than ever. Northern Ireland voted to remain yet won't. This result makes a United Ireland more likely than it has done in the best part of a century. Wales receives, per head of population, more EU money than any part of the UK yet voted to leave. They'll suffer for that, sadly for the remain voters. They don't have the resources to be independent and will now be completely cap-in-hand to Westminister. Northern Parts of England will realise, as they should never have forgotten, that they're of no interest to the right. They'll be in a worse condition that they have been since Thatcher. Apart from that...everything will be peachy.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 4:38:25 GMT
Post by icecreamdf on Jun 24, 2016 4:38:25 GMT
Wow, you guys really did it. Well, I hope everything turns out okay.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 4:54:33 GMT
Post by muckypup on Jun 24, 2016 4:54:33 GMT
it's as I suspected there are more who actually voted to leave as they have little to lose, as a protest to those who appear to have plenty. This is what I don't get. I know you're not saying you believe that, Mucky, but I've seen it as a reason for many English voters. They're "sending a message to the political elite". Are they so pathetically stupid to think that Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith and Michael Gove AREN'T the political elite? The working class areas of England have opened the door to the most reactionary, right-wing scumbags this country has. They've handed them the keys to the kingdom out of fear and ignorance. It's a dark, dark day. The fallout has already been felt with the pound absolutely crashing. Scotland and Northern Ireland will start the proceedings to leave England and Wales to the mess. One of the major reasons Cameron said Scotland shouldn't be independent, remember, is they may not get in the EU. Well, Scotland has just voted ENTIRELY, every single area, to remain in the EU yet will not do so regardless of the people's will. That won't be allowed to stand with an ever increasing Independence movement and an SNP stronger than ever. Northern Ireland voted to remain yet won't. This result makes a United Ireland more likely than it has done in the best part of a century. Wales receives, per head of population, more EU money than any part of the UK yet voted to leave. They'll suffer for that, sadly for the remain voters. They don't have the resources to be independent and will now be completely cap-in-hand to Westminister. Northern Parts of England will realise, as they should never have forgotten, that they're of no interest to the right. They'll be in a worse condition that they have been since Thatcher. Apart from that...everything will be peachy. but when you haven't got a job or bottom of the rung job, only private housing available to rent at high rates with no stability or a bedroom tax if you are lucky enough to get a council house!, cuts to public services you rely on, 4 week waiting lists to see a doctor, schools that have to teach 45 pupil classes with 12 languages, reliance on food banks what have you got to lose. trust me this is the reality for many towns and villages round here Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire. you only have to look at the sports direct warehouse that's in the news so often, huge grants and planning relaxation were give to try to bring in work to the area.....how many local people work there.....well according to the local press 14! landlords turf out tenants to rent them 10 to a house to casual east European labour brought in by agencies, it destroys communities and peoples hopes. sure there is wealth, but it's unobtainable. We get Celebrities saying help the immigrants let them in, while creating a ring of steel around their 10 bedroom 10 acre houses!!!for 4 to live in! that's what's happened one wolf is very much the same as another. it's not good but I see why it's happened. you only have voters from these area, who took no notice of the risks to understand that they are the forgotten people!
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 5:01:53 GMT
Post by charlesuirdhein on Jun 24, 2016 5:01:53 GMT
This is what I don't get. I know you're not saying you believe that, Mucky, but I've seen it as a reason for many English voters. They're "sending a message to the political elite". Are they so pathetically stupid to think that Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith and Michael Gove AREN'T the political elite? The working class areas of England have opened the door to the most reactionary, right-wing scumbags this country has. They've handed them the keys to the kingdom out of fear and ignorance. It's a dark, dark day. The fallout has already been felt with the pound absolutely crashing. Scotland and Northern Ireland will start the proceedings to leave England and Wales to the mess. One of the major reasons Cameron said Scotland shouldn't be independent, remember, is they may not get in the EU. Well, Scotland has just voted ENTIRELY, every single area, to remain in the EU yet will not do so regardless of the people's will. That won't be allowed to stand with an ever increasing Independence movement and an SNP stronger than ever. Northern Ireland voted to remain yet won't. This result makes a United Ireland more likely than it has done in the best part of a century. Wales receives, per head of population, more EU money than any part of the UK yet voted to leave. They'll suffer for that, sadly for the remain voters. They don't have the resources to be independent and will now be completely cap-in-hand to Westminister. Northern Parts of England will realise, as they should never have forgotten, that they're of no interest to the right. They'll be in a worse condition that they have been since Thatcher. Apart from that...everything will be peachy. but when you haven't got a job or bottom of the rung job, only private housing available to rent at high rates with no stability or a bedroom tax if you are lucky enough to get a council house!, cuts to public services you rely on, 4 week waiting lists to see a doctor, schools that have to teach 45 pupil classes with 12 languages, reliance on food banks what have you got to lose. trust me this is the reality for many towns and villages round here Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire. you only have to look at the sports direct warehouse that's in the news so often, huge grants and planning relaxation were give to try to bring in work to the area.....how many local people work there.....well according to the local press 14! landlords turf out tenants to rent them 10 to a house to casual east European labour brought in by agencies, it destroys communities and peoples hopes. sure there is wealth, but it's unobtainable. We get Celebrities saying help the immigrants let them in, while creating a ring of steel around their 10 bedroom 10 acre houses!!!for 4 to live in! that's what's happened one wolf is very much the same as another. it's not good but I see why it's happened. you only have voters from these area, who took no notice of the risks to understand that they are the forgotten people! That's a genuine and neglected demographic. But the EU didn't do that to them, the likes of Farage, Johnson and co did. Landlords turf out tenants? Because again the right refuse to enact decent tenant laws/rent laws. My friends in Berlin can't even have their rent raised, never mind get turfed out, unless the landlord can prove that that they have improved the property, improved it, not just benefitted from a general rise due to where it is. The UK is worse off this morning than it has been in a long time. I'll say no more.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 5:06:20 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 5:06:20 GMT
Those people are fools, plain and simple. The idea that this is going to improve their lives is laughable. The North of England has been left to rot by the same politicos who will benefit from this result - the right. The decay left by not replacing industries of mining and manufacturing will not be fixed by Brexit. All that will happen is that there will be less, and lower paying, jobs with worse conditions to go round these already suffering comunities. If "what have we got to lose?" is an excuse for letting the fascists in, they will find out exactly what they have to lose when a lot of the rights about working conditions, guaranteed pay and equality can be tossed in the bin without the EU to uphold them. Osborne's laughable "Northern Powerhouse" will be forgotten and cities like Sunderland continue to suffer.
I don't even blame the Tories and UKIP. It's a laughable Labour movement that has opened the door to this intolerance. No two ways about it, it's Labour heartlands being disenfranchised that have caused this - and the extremes of the Tory party with UKIP (there's no real difference) will reap the benefits.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 5:11:11 GMT
Post by muckypup on Jun 24, 2016 5:11:11 GMT
but when you haven't got a job or bottom of the rung job, only private housing available to rent at high rates with no stability or a bedroom tax if you are lucky enough to get a council house!, cuts to public services you rely on, 4 week waiting lists to see a doctor, schools that have to teach 45 pupil classes with 12 languages, reliance on food banks what have you got to lose. trust me this is the reality for many towns and villages round here Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire. you only have to look at the sports direct warehouse that's in the news so often, huge grants and planning relaxation were give to try to bring in work to the area.....how many local people work there.....well according to the local press 14! landlords turf out tenants to rent them 10 to a house to casual east European labour brought in by agencies, it destroys communities and peoples hopes. sure there is wealth, but it's unobtainable. We get Celebrities saying help the immigrants let them in, while creating a ring of steel around their 10 bedroom 10 acre houses!!!for 4 to live in! that's what's happened one wolf is very much the same as another. it's not good but I see why it's happened. you only have voters from these area, who took no notice of the risks to understand that they are the forgotten people! That's a genuine and neglected demographic. But the EU didn't do that to them, the likes of Farage, Johnson and co did. Landlords turf out tenants? Because again the right refuse to enact decent tenant laws/rent laws. My friends in Berlin can't even have their rent raised, never mind get turfed out, unless the landlord can prove that that they have improved the property, improved it, not just benefitted from a general rise due to where it is. The UK is worse off this morning than it has been in a long time. I'll say no more. I agree, it's a bad day. and I don't think people really hate the EU but when they said no to any Migration Curbs that was the trigger. agree much of why people are having hardship is down to this government, but when they can rule the country with fingers in every grubby hole and sell off the family silver with a 23% of the vote. it's not hard to see how many have use this change and to hell with the consequences.
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Brexit
Jun 24, 2016 5:27:08 GMT
Post by charlesuirdhein on Jun 24, 2016 5:27:08 GMT
Those people are fools, plain and simple. The idea that this is going to improve their lives is laughable. The North of England has been left to rot by the same politicos who will benefit from this result - the right. The decay left by not replacing industries of mining and manufacturing will not be fixed by Brexit. All that will happen is that there will be less, and lower paying, jobs with worse conditions to go round these already suffering comunities. If "what have we got to lose?" is an excuse for letting the fascists in, they will find out exactly what they have to lose when a lot of the rights about working conditions, guaranteed pay and equality can be tossed in the bin without the EU to uphold them. Osborne's laughable "Northern Powerhouse" will be forgotten and cities like Sunderland continue to suffer. I don't even blame the Tories and UKIP. It's a laughable Labour movement that has opened the door to this intolerance. No two ways about it, it's Labour heartlands being disenfranchised that have caused this - and the extremes of the Tory party with UKIP (there's no real difference) will reap the benefits. I agree. This is down to Labour, specifically Blairite Labour or "Red Tory". The Tories are what they are, we'd be fools to think otherwise. I do believe Corbyn is the right leader for Labour but he may have come too late.
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