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Post by omega on Apr 6, 2017 6:58:33 GMT
There's a really funny bit in the novel where in the hotel bar Tegan is annoyed at a bunch of men singing this drinking song: We are in a chronic hysteresis! We are in a chronic hysteresis! We are in a chronic hysteresis! We are in a chronic hysteresis! We are in a chronic hysteresis! We are in a chronic hysteresis! We are in a chronic hysteresis! [You get the picture]
Would have made for a sidesplittingly funny wildtrack recording for the CD extras.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 12, 2018 17:40:56 GMT
This was an interesting one.
It had so much going on, the kind of release which requires full concentration for fear of missing something crucial, and is full of good moments. Standouts including seventh Doctor's reaction to seeing Adric, all of Chris and Nyssa's partnership, the Doctors realising they've both reversed the neutron flow.
As for Patience. Well I come to this way too young to have read any of the original looms/Other related material, so this is the first medium I've encountered to really dabble in those murky waters. I like that this leaves Patience just as a figure of mystery. She might be connected to the Doctor, but there's nothing definitive here to base that on (save the blurb). I've never really been sold on the whole 'Other' thing, so to have this be so non-commital was nice. Leave those waters murky.
Now the New Series references. I thought the Silver Devastation reference worked well, nice example of tying disparate threads of continuity together to make something meaningful, and the 'reverse the polarity' reminder a nice jokey one (I assume that wasn't in the original novel). The final one I thought seemed to be trying a bit too hard tbh, I don't think it added much and just confuses matters.
This stands as unique take on a multi-Doctor story, and it's a shame it serves as the finale for the Novel Adaptations.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jul 16, 2018 6:38:43 GMT
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Post by newt5996 on Nov 16, 2018 17:32:51 GMT
Relistening to this and Original Sin before I listen to the new Chris and Roz set and I’ve got a couple of things I don’t think get enough praise.
The humor of the original novel is just great and both Parkin and Big Finish preserve most everything perfectly. The way the main cast interacts with each other is just great overall. Jamie Anderson in the directors chair just makes Cold Fusion stand out stylistically from the rest of the adaptations and does an odd but amazing mix of preserving the VNA feel and Davison era feel of the novel of that makes sense
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 21:06:25 GMT
Relistening to this and Original Sin before I listen to the new Chris and Roz set and I’ve got a couple of things I don’t think get enough praise. The humor of the original novel is just great and both Parkin and Big Finish preserve most everything perfectly. The way the main cast interacts with each other is just great overall. Jamie Anderson in the directors chair just makes Cold Fusion stand out stylistically from the rest of the adaptations and does an odd but amazing mix of preserving the VNA feel and Davison era feel of the novel of that makes sense Yeah, it slides from one to the other over the course of the story. You start off with something that wouldn't feel too out of place coming after Castrovalva. A bit of Bidmeadesque fantasy, sliding into Sawardian militaria and then we find out who the Ferutu are, what the Machine is and it goes full NAs.
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Post by newt5996 on Nov 16, 2018 21:11:24 GMT
Relistening to this and Original Sin before I listen to the new Chris and Roz set and I’ve got a couple of things I don’t think get enough praise. The humor of the original novel is just great and both Parkin and Big Finish preserve most everything perfectly. The way the main cast interacts with each other is just great overall. Jamie Anderson in the directors chair just makes Cold Fusion stand out stylistically from the rest of the adaptations and does an odd but amazing mix of preserving the VNA feel and Davison era feel of the novel of that makes sense Yeah, it slides from one to the other over the course of the story. You start off with something that wouldn't feel too out of place coming after Castrovalva. A bit of Bidmeadesque fantasy, sliding into Sawardian militaria and then we find out who the Ferutu are, what the Machine is and it goes full NAs. And that it does that both in the book and in the audio without any real tonal whiplash is astounding and a testament to the skill of both Parkin and Anderson
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 21:13:32 GMT
Yeah, it slides from one to the other over the course of the story. You start off with something that wouldn't feel too out of place coming after Castrovalva. A bit of Bidmeadesque fantasy, sliding into Sawardian militaria and then we find out who the Ferutu are, what the Machine is and it goes full NAs. And that it does that both in the book and in the audio without any real tonal whiplash is astounding and a testament to the skill of both Parkin and Anderson I'd love an original story with this pairing again at some point in the future. Wouldn't that be really cool?
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Post by newt5996 on Nov 16, 2018 21:33:15 GMT
And that it does that both in the book and in the audio without any real tonal whiplash is astounding and a testament to the skill of both Parkin and Anderson I'd love an original story with this pairing again at some point in the future. Wouldn't that be really cool? Yeah and I've often wondered what Parkin would do with the first four Doctors or a New Who style story as he's only really written for Doctors 5-8.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 21:57:31 GMT
I'd love an original story with this pairing again at some point in the future. Wouldn't that be really cool? Yeah and I've often wondered what Parkin would do with the first four Doctors or a New Who style story as he's only really written for Doctors 5-8. Yeah, it's so difficult to tell. Parkin has this habit of just wandering into Doctor Who and doing something genuinely mythic before fading back into the background again. Primeval has some very compelling things to say about moral relativity for arguably the most incorruptible of Doctors. Davros puts the Sixth Doctor front-and-centre in a character study that puts Six vs. Davros in the same league as Three vs. Master. He has this wonderful talent of being able to marry seemingly competing depictions of things ("Which is true? This or this?" "Yes.") while still keeping true to the spirit of what he's cited. That said, he has written for a NuWho Doctor -- The Eyeless for the Tenth Doctor. A fun Terry Nation kind of romp with links to the Time War. Worth checking out if that sounds interesting.
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Post by slithe on Nov 17, 2018 11:35:53 GMT
I purchased this one on a whim. It was on offer as part of the Fifth Doctor sale/Regeneration link a couple of weeks ago (although thanks to a link here, the Randomizer offer was a bit cheaper!!) and decided to take a punt. Whilst I hadn't read the original book, I had dipped in and out of the Missing Adventures (and New Adventures) in the 1990s and had mixed reactions to them. I'd found some of the Missing Adventures I'd read rather dull (sequels to the Web Planet?!), others mildly entertaining (The Sorcerers Apprentice) and some quite good (Killing Ground, Scales of Injustice). However, I can't say that they made enough of an impact on me to justify buying the adaptations at full price. However, the cheap price and curiosity, got the better of me, so went for it.
I was pleasantly surprised by this one. Although not familiar with the original novel, I found it a good audio drama and there was enough going on to keep me interested and the six episodes is just enough to let things breathe without being rushed or stretched (perhaps this should have been the format with the other adaptations). Whilst there is a lot of links to the past/wider NA universe, this wasn't over-done and I didn't find it off-putting. The plot itself is deceptively simple and will probably repay several listenings - the Fifth Doctor investigating the Ice World, the Seventh looking at time experiments. The idea that the Seventh Doctor has been manipulating things from the start and his companions (as well as his past self) is being played makes an interesting premise - particularly the damning description that the Seventh makes of his Fifth incarnation to Roz in Episode 6.
Not being familiar with Roz and Chris meant that I went in 'blind' about these two. I found them interesting enough and are probably better companions for the Seventh than Ace/Mel (as portrayed in the TV Adventures). They act and seem more 'rounded' than the caricatures we have with the other companions for the Seventh (even in many of the BF MR releases) and I thought they fitted better with the direction of the Seventh as a master manipulator. They stand more on their own two feet and, whilst respectful of the Doctor, don't entirely trust him either. As such, their interplay with Nyssa/Tegan/Adric was interesting to see. Out of the adaption, I think Adric comes off better - he is less of a whiny child/nuisance and actually uses his intelligence for a change in a positive way. Certainly, his scenes with the Seventh show a less cantankerous relationship (guilt perhaps?) and give an indication of what could have developed had the original 1981 production team ditched Nyssa instead of Adric (only stopped when Davison interjected). The companions are also put in a more adult world which is welcome - alcohol, violence and sex are clearly referenced in the audio, but done in a subtle way - it's still a DW universe despite this.
McCoy and Davison work well together and their interaction in Episode 6 is interesting. McCoy plays the Doctor well here and is the best I've heard him for a while if I'm honest. He is clearly enjoying the better and more complex material. I would be interested in hearing other adaptations with the Seventh/Chris/Roz and think it would be better if McCoy's releases go more in this direction - certainly the last trilogy has been quite uneven so far (still got Warlock's Cross left and am not entirely blown away by the Muse of Fire). Although, Davison's Doctor is better fleshed out - however, his approach doesn't entirely fit with the Season 19 version of his character.
Pity that BF have abandoned these adaptations as there are plenty of decent novels that could be used (not just Virgin, the PDA ones as well). However, this one was worth a punt and enjoyable.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 23, 2018 6:58:09 GMT
Just finished this one, too. I generally agree with the points made by slithe in the post above me.
I also bought this one on a whim while on special, it never really interested me strongly in the past, since I was a bit apprehensive about the Gallifrey background...
Anyways, the first episode starts really strong and sucked me in immediately. The story was well written and I was able to follow it without problems- I also have not read the book beforehand. All in all, this was an interesting and exciting story and I am happy all the companions were used equally and everybody gets a moment to shine. There are also some great humourous moments and I especially loved the ending scene with "codeword umbrella".
I still am not a fan of showing the background of the Dooctor and details about Gallifrey. I hate the whole "looming" business. In my oppinion, these things should stay a mystery, and I like my timelords to be the mysterious and menacing aliens they are in the War Games. But that might just be me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2018 9:33:08 GMT
Just finished this one, too. I generally agree with the points made by slithe in the post above me. I also bought this one on a whim while on special, it never really interested me strongly in the past, since I was a bit apprehensive about the Gallifrey background... Anyways, the first episode starts really strong and sucked me in immediately. The story was well written and I was able to follow it without problems- I also have not read the book beforehand. All in all, this was an interesting and exciting story and I am happy all the companions were used equally and everybody gets a moment to shine. There are also some great humourous moments and I especially loved the ending scene with "codeword umbrella". I still am not a fan of showing the background of the Dooctor and details about Gallifrey. I hate the whole "looming" business. In my oppinion, these things should stay a mystery, and I like my timelords to be the mysterious and menacing aliens they are in the War Games. But that might just be me. And Looms aren’t mysterious.I think coming at it after River and Doctors wife etc it just goes to show a good idea never dies it just gets rehashed 😉
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 23, 2018 10:06:40 GMT
And Looms aren’t mysterious.I think coming at it after River and Doctors wife etc it just goes to show a good idea never dies it just gets rehashed 😉 Yeah, I just do not like the creation of life in test tubes and similar. Takes all the mystery and wonder out of it.
And I agree, but what do they say? There are only 7 basic storylines in the world which make up all of the stories humanity has ever told.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 23, 2018 10:09:05 GMT
I still am not a fan of showing the background of the Dooctor and details about Gallifrey. I hate the whole "looming" business. In my oppinion, these things should stay a mystery, and I like my timelords to be the mysterious and menacing aliens they are in the War Games. But that might just be me. I like learning more about Gallifrey but I'm not sure I like the loom idea. I probably mostly agree with you about menacing, or at least I don't seem to like it when Gallifreyans seem like cartoonish bunglers too often. Glad you liked this, I'd generally recommend it as a great story with great cast, a lot of fun.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 23, 2018 11:47:51 GMT
I still am not a fan of showing the background of the Dooctor and details about Gallifrey. I hate the whole "looming" business. In my oppinion, these things should stay a mystery, and I like my timelords to be the mysterious and menacing aliens they are in the War Games. But that might just be me. I like learning more about Gallifrey but I'm not sure I like the loom idea. I probably mostly agree with you about menacing, or at least I don't seem to like it when Gallifreyans seem like cartoonish bunglers too often. Glad you liked this, I'd generally recommend it as a great story with great cast, a lot of fun. Yeah, I just hate how Gallifrey has devolved into a caricature of human politics. It just does not make a lot of sense to me at all for a age old alien civilisation.
I think the last time I really enjoyed the portrayal of the time lords was in The War Games.
But I admit I enjoyed "Time on Office", although I see it as a comedy which I do not need to take serious or as canon.
But all in all, Cold Fusion was much better than I had expected.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2018 12:18:08 GMT
I like learning more about Gallifrey but I'm not sure I like the loom idea. I probably mostly agree with you about menacing, or at least I don't seem to like it when Gallifreyans seem like cartoonish bunglers too often. Glad you liked this, I'd generally recommend it as a great story with great cast, a lot of fun. Yeah, I just hate how Gallifrey has devolved into a caricature of human politics. It just does not make a lot of sense to me at all for a age old alien civilisation.
I think the last time I really enjoyed the portrayal of the time lords was in The War Games.
But I admit I enjoyed "Time on Office", although I see it as a comedy which I do not need to take serious or as canon.
But all in all, Cold Fusion was much better than I had expected. Have you checked out any of Faction Paradox? I think you'd get a kick out of the depiction of the Great Houses from [REDACTED]. The Gallifreyan politicking is there in the audios focussing on the Osirian Court, but it's over fundamentally alien values like trying to decide whether to actively embrace or reject a more carnal, basest nature attuned to the "animalistic lesser species". By the War, it's getting very difficult to tell what exactly a Gallifreyan is anymore and those at home are starting to notice. That was the thing I particularly liked about the introduction of the looms, it solidified this idea of the Time Lords as this race of immortals that really don't want to be reminded that they were once flesh and blood just like everyone else. "Other races undergo mitosis, burst into spores, lay eggs and other methods far too vulgar for this august assembly, we of the Great Houses are a world of foundlings. Our children simply... occur." That and the beautifully alien imagery of the Doctor remembering what it was like to be strung out inside waiting to be born. I've seen a real-world loom in operation several times and the idea of people coming out of the thing is wonderfully Gothic. There is a rather interesting development that isn't brought up very often when discussing the looms, though. You see, for a while, there were children born from the womb. Naturally born, who were able to escape the curse of sterility. A small number at most. And then Rassilon made his decree that no child should be born outside a womb, leading to a series of purges, like the one that's seen briefly in Cold Fusion. It's not widely talked about, but there were survivors who were able to hide throughout the population by faking their biodata records. I don't think that fact comes out until roughly the Eighth Doctor's time (circa The Infinity Doctors). It makes me wonder if some of Gallifrey's more notorious renegades were secretly part of that group.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 23, 2018 12:42:25 GMT
Yeah, I just hate how Gallifrey has devolved into a caricature of human politics. It just does not make a lot of sense to me at all for a age old alien civilisation.
I think the last time I really enjoyed the portrayal of the time lords was in The War Games.
But I admit I enjoyed "Time on Office", although I see it as a comedy which I do not need to take serious or as canon.
But all in all, Cold Fusion was much better than I had expected. Have you checked out any of Faction Paradox? I think you'd get a kick out of the depiction of the Great Houses from [REDACTED]. The Gallifreyan politicking is there in the audios focussing on the Osirian Court, but it's over fundamentally alien values like trying to decide whether to actively embrace or reject a more carnal, basest nature attuned to the "animalistic lesser species". By the War, it's getting very difficult to tell what exactly a Gallifreyan is anymore and those at home are starting to notice. That was the thing I particularly liked about the introduction of the looms, it solidified this idea of the Time Lords as this race of immortals that really don't want to be reminded that they were once flesh and blood just like everyone else. "Other races undergo mitosis, burst into spores, lay eggs and other methods far too vulgar for this august assembly, we of the Great Houses are a world of foundlings. Our children simply... occur." That and the beautifully alien imagery of the Doctor remembering what it was like to be strung out inside waiting to be born. I've seen a real-world loom in operation several times and the idea of people coming out of the thing is wonderfully Gothic. There is a rather interesting development that isn't brought up very often when discussing the looms, though. You see, for a while, there were children born from the womb. Naturally born, who were able to escape the curse of sterility. A small number at most. And then Rassilon made his decree that no child should be born outside a womb, leading to a series of purges, like the one that's seen briefly in Cold Fusion. It's not widely talked about, but there were survivors who were able to hide throughout the population by faking their biodata records. I don't think that fact comes out until roughly the Eighth Doctor's time (circa The Infinity Doctors). It makes me wonder if some of Gallifrey's more notorious renegades were secretly part of that group. Since I have been dabbling with the books, I am indeed familiar with the Faction Paradox.
But so far I have only read one of the books which they occur in (the one where there is an auction on the Doctor's dead body, forgot the name of the book) and I have to say I wasn't a fan. I like the stand-alone 8th Doctor books (and 7th Doctor books) far better (I LOVED Eater of Wasps for example, or Nightshade).
I think I still have around 20 of the 8th Doctor books on my Kindle waiting to be read... but for this, I need to be in the right mindset. Because some of these books are a bit... how should we call it... different. Divergent. I have not read Lungbarrow nor have I read Cold Fusion. Somehow I am also not massively tempted to do so.
I am not sure. I just find the idea of the looms uncomfortable. It is not even something I can really explain rationally. Yes, it is alien, and it makes your skin crawl... but somehow not my cup of tea.
Yeah, Gothic might be the right word! And these purges/ ethnic cleansings... somehow this fits more with Star Trek Klingons than with Time Lords in my mind. With menacing I meant more towards other species, like their behaviour towards the second Doctor's companions (and towards the Doctor in extension).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2018 21:25:20 GMT
Have you checked out any of Faction Paradox? I think you'd get a kick out of the depiction of the Great Houses from [REDACTED]. The Gallifreyan politicking is there in the audios focussing on the Osirian Court, but it's over fundamentally alien values like trying to decide whether to actively embrace or reject a more carnal, basest nature attuned to the "animalistic lesser species". By the War, it's getting very difficult to tell what exactly a Gallifreyan is anymore and those at home are starting to notice. That was the thing I particularly liked about the introduction of the looms, it solidified this idea of the Time Lords as this race of immortals that really don't want to be reminded that they were once flesh and blood just like everyone else. "Other races undergo mitosis, burst into spores, lay eggs and other methods far too vulgar for this august assembly, we of the Great Houses are a world of foundlings. Our children simply... occur." That and the beautifully alien imagery of the Doctor remembering what it was like to be strung out inside waiting to be born. I've seen a real-world loom in operation several times and the idea of people coming out of the thing is wonderfully Gothic. There is a rather interesting development that isn't brought up very often when discussing the looms, though. You see, for a while, there were children born from the womb. Naturally born, who were able to escape the curse of sterility. A small number at most. And then Rassilon made his decree that no child should be born outside a womb, leading to a series of purges, like the one that's seen briefly in Cold Fusion. It's not widely talked about, but there were survivors who were able to hide throughout the population by faking their biodata records. I don't think that fact comes out until roughly the Eighth Doctor's time (circa The Infinity Doctors). It makes me wonder if some of Gallifrey's more notorious renegades were secretly part of that group. Since I have been dabbling with the books, I am indeed familiar with the Faction Paradox.
But so far I have only read one of the books which they occur in (the one where there is an auction on the Doctor's dead body, forgot the name of the book) and I have to say I wasn't a fan. I like the stand-alone 8th Doctor books (and 7th Doctor books) far better (I LOVED Eater of Wasps for example, or Nightshade).
I think I still have around 20 of the 8th Doctor books on my Kindle waiting to be read... but for this, I need to be in the right mindset. Because some of these books are a bit... how should we call it... different. Divergent. I have not read Lungbarrow nor have I read Cold Fusion. Somehow I am also not massively tempted to do so.
I am not sure. I just find the idea of the looms uncomfortable. It is not even something I can really explain rationally. Yes, it is alien, and it makes your skin crawl... but somehow not my cup of tea.
Yeah, Gothic might be the right word! And these purges/ ethnic cleansings... somehow this fits more with Star Trek Klingons than with Time Lords in my mind. With menacing I meant more towards other species, like their behaviour towards the second Doctor's companions (and towards the Doctor in extension). At the risk of going way off-topic, I always thought it was a bit of a shame that some of the details from John M. Ford's The Final Reflection kind of got swept to the side in favour of later developments. The idea that the Klingons created half-human hybrids to better understand and fight their enemies has a certain appeal to it. I think they got off better in the grander scheme of things then Diane Duane's Rihannsu, though. They were never quite allowed to venture very far outside their Romulan box. Fair enough terms on the looms, I can understand not liking it for being uncanny. I'm a huge fan of non-static history in sci-fi, so I like the evolution of ideas as the Time Lords figure out what exactly they're all about at first. I find the purges and some of Gallifrey's earlier history have a bit of a precedent in what we've already seen on television. Things like the tampering with the Minyans in Underworld (back in the very early days of when they had a Gallifreyan Empire), the execution of Morbius and the use of the Death Zone as a public arena for entertainment. By the Doctor's time... I'd say they've knocked a lot of those old habits. They'd probably be a bit embarrassed to admit such a thing used to happen, to be honest. Faction Paradox definitely tries for a more menacing depiction of the Time Lords, but it gets very weird in order to do it. I'll give an example in... Drornid, the rival homeworld. In Shada, the Doctor says the Time Lords dealt with it by basically ignoring it until they came back into the fold. In The Book of the War, it's elaborated that their method of ignoring it was on par with the powers they demonstrated in The War Games -- they severed it from causal certainty and threw it out of history. The planet was ravaged by uncertainties and conflicting time zones until the rival President returned home. I've mixed feelings about the story itself, but The World Shapers has one of the best exchanges between two Time Lords come to intervene in the Doctor's actions. I think it sums up their philosophy quite nicely:
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Nov 23, 2018 21:38:28 GMT
Just finished this one, too. I generally agree with the points made by slithe in the post above me. I also bought this one on a whim while on special, it never really interested me strongly in the past, since I was a bit apprehensive about the Gallifrey background... Anyways, the first episode starts really strong and sucked me in immediately. The story was well written and I was able to follow it without problems- I also have not read the book beforehand. All in all, this was an interesting and exciting story and I am happy all the companions were used equally and everybody gets a moment to shine. There are also some great humourous moments and I especially loved the ending scene with "codeword umbrella". I still am not a fan of showing the background of the Dooctor and details about Gallifrey. I hate the whole "looming" business. In my oppinion, these things should stay a mystery, and I like my timelords to be the mysterious and menacing aliens they are in the War Games. But that might just be me. I'm a firm believer that the looms aren't mysterious, they're just technobabble laziness that diminishes the Doctor as a person, as a parent, as a grandparent, as someone who has those bonds and who understands those bonds well, even if they seldom speak of them. Thankfully this ridiculous idea has been ignored in the revived series. I'd sooner add half human on the maternal side to the Doctor's canon than this.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2018 21:45:32 GMT
Just finished this one, too. I generally agree with the points made by slithe in the post above me. I also bought this one on a whim while on special, it never really interested me strongly in the past, since I was a bit apprehensive about the Gallifrey background... Anyways, the first episode starts really strong and sucked me in immediately. The story was well written and I was able to follow it without problems- I also have not read the book beforehand. All in all, this was an interesting and exciting story and I am happy all the companions were used equally and everybody gets a moment to shine. There are also some great humourous moments and I especially loved the ending scene with "codeword umbrella". I still am not a fan of showing the background of the Dooctor and details about Gallifrey. I hate the whole "looming" business. In my oppinion, these things should stay a mystery, and I like my timelords to be the mysterious and menacing aliens they are in the War Games. But that might just be me. I'm a firm believer that the looms aren't mysterious, they're just technobabble laziness that diminishes the Doctor as a person, as a parent, as a grandparent, as someone who has those bonds and who understands those bonds well, even if they seldom speak of them. Thankfully this ridiculous idea has been ignored in the revived series. I'd sooner add half human on the maternal side to the Doctor's canon than this. Fair, but I also believe that one does not need to have blood ties in order to be considered family. Adopted children or children of surrogacies, as occurs in real life, are just as much loved as those born in the traditional manner.
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