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Post by kurumais on Jul 31, 2016 15:28:25 GMT
im what way self indulgent. well when writers want a certain thing or situation but dont justify it with the actual writing. characters just start acting a certain way 1 scene then on a completely new way or event in direct conflict in anther and the author does nothing to justify it. i keep going back to an old dennis miller joke talking about hack comedians of the day." what if jack nicholson was a grocery store clerk...." so i think that when i see cheesy writing like this all of it just reeked of fanfic the doctor as a clown in a circus the jadon poet. is just seemed like wouldnt it be cool if. ok so how do you get there. the plot just says it is. the a whole court room scene . terrible i havent read much fanfic but this was just as awful. the jadon read all those books in afternoon? why because now alien possession gives you speed reading? or because the writers just wanted it that way. and in just a shallow trite way. oh the judge suddenly has no problem trying a case with rhino headed aliens on mars and become outraged at an interstellar terraforming company. where on earth was rge editor of this dreck. i am sorry this was one of the worst things ive heard from big finish.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Jul 31, 2016 17:26:32 GMT
I've listened to Fallen Angles and The Sonataran Ordeal so far, whilst neither was a groundbreaking mesh of Classic/New canon both were hugely enjoyable, solid stories 8/10 and I'm already itching to relisten to them, hopefully the other two stories measure up.
-Did anyone think they were going to set the Finches up as future companions at one point?
-Was I the only one who got a slight Star Wars vibe from The Sonatarn Ordeal.
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Post by mrperson on Jul 31, 2016 19:08:37 GMT
im what way self indulgent. well when writers want a certain thing or situation but dont justify it with the actual writing. characters just start acting a certain way 1 scene then on a completely new way or event in direct conflict in anther and the author does nothing to justify it. i keep going back to an old dennis miller joke talking about hack comedians of the day." what if jack nicholson was a grocery store clerk...." so i think that when i see cheesy writing like this all of it just reeked of fanfic the doctor as a clown in a circus the jadon poet. is just seemed like wouldnt it be cool if. ok so how do you get there. the plot just says it is. the a whole court room scene . terrible i havent read much fanfic but this was just as awful. the jadon read all those books in afternoon? why because now alien possession gives you speed reading? or because the writers just wanted it that way. and in just a shallow trite way. oh the judge suddenly has no problem trying a case with rhino headed aliens on mars and become outraged at an interstellar terraforming company. where on earth was rge editor of this dreck. i am sorry this was one of the worst things ive heard from big finish. Sorry you didn't like it, I guess. The way I see it: 1. Yes, expanded intelligence and empathy was the precise effect; I hardly think it makes sense to take issue with something like that with the prevalence of things like telepathy throughout Who. If the Doctor can read a book in a couple seconds, why can't some other alien enhance another's mental capabilities until it can do something similar? 2. If Rhino headed aliens kidnapped you and said you needed to try a case, I suspect you'd try it. It's not like the judge had much of a choice. And people are constantly meeting aliens in Who without turning into a gibbering wreck. 3. To the limited extent Judoon have appeared in audio or TV Who (I don't know about other stuff), they have consistently been portrayed as law abiding to the point of pedantry. Add in #1, and of course they'd become enraged at the company's actions, which apparently were a clear violation of law. 4. The Doctor has always been captured - let himself be captured - and play the fool, specifically so that he can work out a solution. I don't really see being a clown (who didn't seem to ever actually have to perform as a clown) as an aberration. I'm usually the one griping about consistency (re: new who) and such things, but I honestly don't see anything inconsistent or otherwise nonsensical here.
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Post by mrperson on Jul 31, 2016 19:09:17 GMT
Is it me or Sylvester sounded a bit drunk? There was something odd about his voice Maybe a cold? Didn't sound drunk to me (and he's getting a bit old for such things), but who knows what they get up to in the studio...
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Post by mrperson on Jul 31, 2016 19:36:52 GMT
Oh, one more completely different point: the angels.
It was really well done here. Really well done in the brilliant Blink, and also quite good in the S5 double-parter. I hope that both BF and New Who stay away from them generally though.
The problem is that if you introduce something as "the most dangerous wossname ever", you have to use it sparingly and it has to cause an awful lot of damage when you do use it. Otherwise, it no longer feels as dangerous. (Same goes for leaving dead people to stay dead). The occasional story works, but I think we've already seen them too frequently on the TV series.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 31, 2016 20:50:23 GMT
so i think that when i see cheesy writing like this all of it just reeked of fanfic the doctor as a clown in a circus the jadon poet. is just seemed like wouldnt it be cool if. ok so how do you get there. the plot just says it is. the a whole court room scene . terrible i havent read much fanfic but this was just as awful. the jadon read all those books in afternoon? why because now alien possession gives you speed reading? or because the writers just wanted it that way. and in just a shallow trite way. oh the judge suddenly has no problem trying a case with rhino headed aliens on mars and become outraged at an interstellar terraforming company. Well, yes... in a way, the judge seemed incredibly prosaic about things, but then earlier in the week I'd been noticing that everyone seems a bit that way in Doctor Who a lot of the time. I'm not sure there's time available for more realistic reactions like two hours of screaming and five years of therapy. :-) Also, I'm assuming that perhaps Judoon can assimilate documents the way they assimilate languages, maybe that's how they keep up with hefty legal works (whereas politicians are always signing things into law that "it isn't humanly possible to actually read first" because they're 1200 pages long), although the story may not actually require that. I'm not really clear on how exactly how long it was supposed to have taken in the story. I could swear I've heard more than one story recently where the Sixth Doctor is referred to as a court jester or some such, maybe that sort of comes with the outfit? (I myself think it's a perfect statement for a complex and colorful character, but it's easy to see others taking it differently). I thought it was interesting in the context of people under-reacting to aliens and so forth, though, that some of the people in the story kind of mentally filtered The Doctor and Kybo into a clown and a circus curiosity rather than seeing them as the aliens they really are. Fanfic, I'm not sure about... If being an official, licensed story doesn't save something from being called a fanfic, what is it when a series is trying to cater to what they think fans want? (Being a Dark Shadows fan first and foremost myself, there's a show that was tremendously influenced by fan reactions and fan mail, it was going to do in the stars of the show until the ratings soared and the mail trucks dropped off an avalanche). Sorry you didn't like the story, because I certainly found it tremendously enjoyable and can only hope that others do too. Maybe revisit the story sometime and see if it sits any better with you? (I know sometimes there's a bit of New Series stuff that doesn't make sense to me until I mull over it a bit and come up with my own explanation for it, and for some reason that's turned out to usually be easier after a second or third viewing).
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Post by kimalysong on Jul 31, 2016 22:02:39 GMT
I only listened to the first story and I did really enjoy it but I am not sure if the Angels entirely worked on audio mainly because you had to keep describing them. Whereas I think the Angels and what makes them work are so visual
That being said what made the story work for me is it brought the Angels back to their roots displacing people in time. As someone who loves historicals this was always my favorite aspect about the Angels (besides them being really scary monsters) and I think this was sort of taken away in subsequent stories after Blink.
Joel, Gabby, Michelangelo, and Piero were all strong supporting characters and I loved the concept of Michealangelo never being able to finish the Sistine Chapel. How they beat the Angels was pretty creative too especially since they still may be there ready to attack unknowing tourists in the future. Ominous music starts playing.
I also like the fact that the Fifth Doctor couldn't bring Gabby & Joel back to the present. But at least they have each other.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 31, 2016 22:16:16 GMT
I guess perhaps I'm being dense but are the Angels captured by the 5th Doctor the same Angels who the 10th Doctor battled in Blink? Is that said or implied at all and I missed it?
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Post by kimalysong on Jul 31, 2016 22:18:18 GMT
I guess perhaps I'm being dense but are the Angels captured by the 5th Doctor the same Angels who the 10th Doctor battled in Blink? Is that said or implied at all and I missed it? I didn't consider that one. I thought they were trapped underneath the Sistine Chapel. Unless I misunderstood.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 31, 2016 22:20:49 GMT
No they were but I guess I was thinking that it is always possible they were freed somehow. Seems like it would tie in with those Angels being trapped for centuries and weakened when we find them in Blink.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 31, 2016 23:20:42 GMT
Judoon In Chains....well, that was rather lovely and really quite unexpected. I really enjoyed that at its core it was a story about the power of art & beauty. It's the best voice work I've heard Nick Briggs do in an age and Colin is, as usual, on top form. Great script from Bernard & Morris and again, great work from Barnaby Edwards. This is shaping up to be a fantastic box set. Thank you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 0:34:21 GMT
The old meets the new perfectly. What a release!
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 1, 2016 0:35:15 GMT
I only listened to the first story and I did really enjoy it but I am not sure if the Angels entirely worked on audio mainly because you had to keep describing them. Whereas I think the Angels and what makes them work are so visible. Some good points in your post, including this. Obviously a challenge to do something like this, but I think it succeeded because there is that aspect of keeping your eye on them while speaking or alerting others what they're up to that it maybe does make descriptive dialog seem natural enough, often enough? I think it was also a help for me that this was a Fifth Doctor story, though. Sometimes Five seems to me to have the least whimsical tone and that often helps me to take the gravity of a situation a more a bit more seriously, whether seen or unseen, and that did seem to work for me here as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 0:48:13 GMT
Oooh. A thought Classic doctors Torchwood monsters... Maybe not.
I doubt the BBC would let Big Finish do such a project. Torchwood is an adult series!
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Post by elkawho on Aug 1, 2016 3:42:51 GMT
No they were but I guess I was thinking that it is always possible they were freed somehow. Seems like it would tie in with those Angels being trapped for centuries and weakened when we find them in Blink. I was thinking the same thing.
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Post by mrperson on Aug 1, 2016 3:52:07 GMT
I could swear I've heard more than one story recently where the Sixth Doctor is referred to as a court jester or some such, maybe that sort of comes with the outfit? Yeah, it's a bit of a running joke
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Post by acousticwolf on Aug 1, 2016 4:36:41 GMT
Mrs acousticwolf and I listened to Fallen Angels last night and really enjoyed it. I could definitely visualise the Angels in the catacombs (much like Blink) but I agree that occasionally there was too much description ("look it's doing this", or "what's it doing now" type of thing, especially on the scaffold). Sometimes less is more and our imagination can fill in the blanks. All in all though I do think the Angels work well on audio but agree with mrperson that they shouldn't be used too often, they are too good a monster to be overused. If I have one niggle, it's the lack of feeling at the end. There was no real shock or horror of being separated from family or friends and never being able to get back. It was very much a "Oh, ok. I guess we could just go to...". But that is just nit-picking a good story . While Five worked (despite my concerns), Eight could easily have been against them too , but a good start to the box. Cheers Tony
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Aug 1, 2016 21:49:36 GMT
Terrific set Fallen Angels I'm surprised how functional they made the Angels on audio. I can't say they're especially effective in this format, but the story around them is still inventive enough to make it good fun. Not too keen on the meta references to the New Series (kissing and wibbly wobbly) but they were used sparingly enough that they wern't an issue. 7/10
Judoon in Chains Probably my favourite. A well plotted story that excellently combines absurd situations with humour and genuine pathos (I loved the stiff-upper-lip courtroom). I was a little worried that it was introducing a plot element (the invisible aliens) too late into the story as a lazy way to tie things up, only to realise there was still plenty of run-time to go, and it was all tied in and foreshadowed throughout. Pretty much flawless. 10/10 (Also, at the end I seriously thought the Judoon started rapping.)
Harvest of the Sycorax I love the social commentary on a society that seems unwilling or unable to engage in emotional unpredictability, and the lore building and general tone of the Sycorax works great, especially with the Seventh Doctor. The only draw back for this one is the part with the two people exploring the ship. It goes on too long, and for ages it seems like they're not making any progress, because we don't know what the Doctor asked them to do (I can't actually recall him saying anything). So the story just loses momentum. It picks up at the end, but this one really could have been a 9. 7.5/10
The Sontaran Ordeal Again, another very well plotted story. Eight is on form, it's good to see some more abstract fallout from the Time War, the main Sontaran and his... ordeal through Sontaran politics and technology was interesting, as well as Serana's situation on her planet. And I liked the reluctant and turbulent partnership between the 3 on them. It doesn't quite stick the landing. The Sontaran's ending got a little clunky; could have been much more effective as I really felt for the guy.
And Serana blowing up at the Doctor just felt really forced. It was trying to mirror Cass's rejection of Eight, and the Universe's growing distain for the Time Lords, but it just doesn't work in this context (Cass knew of the Time Lords before hand, probably grew up hearing stories about them or suffered their fallout first hand, and was in a high stress situation).
Eight has shown himself to be truly kind and trustworthy for as long as Serana knew him, the only Time Lord she ever knew, and she whipped straight from being buddy buddy, to straight out Shakespearean ire. I could have understood an understated wariness; a more reluctant but still unsettling friction between the two of them that left Eight still feeling somewhat rejected. Those problems aside, still a very enjoyable story. 8/10
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Post by acousticwolf on Aug 3, 2016 12:21:29 GMT
Listened to Judoon in Chains last night and while they are not my favourite "monster", I enjoyed the story - humorous without being too silly. I was worried it was going to be the same as "Smith and Jones", but moving the building was the the only similarity (and actually went a good way to explain why they did it in S&J). I thought Colin sounded great in this and Nick's Judoon voices were pretty accurate. All in all an enjoyable tale by Messrs Simon Barnard and paulmorris. Unfortunately Mrs acousticwolf fell asleep during it (nothing to do with the story I don't think lol), but she is making up for it by listening to the Scarifyers today . Cheers Tony
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Post by Simon Barnard on Aug 3, 2016 13:35:44 GMT
Listened to Judoon in Chains last night and while they are not my favourite "monster", I enjoyed the story - humorous without being too silly. I was worried it was going to be the same as "Smith and Jones", but moving the building was the the only similarity (and actually went a good way to explain why they did it in S&J). I thought Colin sounded great in this and Nick's Judoon voices were pretty accurate. All in all an enjoyable tale by Messrs Simon Barnard and paulmorris . Unfortunately Mrs acousticwolf fell asleep during it (nothing to do with the story I don't think lol), but she is making up for it by listening to the Scarifyers today . Cheers Tony Which one? Wouldn't want to make her fall asleep again.
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