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Post by Ela on Aug 18, 2016 17:15:14 GMT
I noticed when I was downloading the set that the running times are very different. The first and fourth stories are under an hour, while "Judoon in Chains" is 78 minutes! Whoops! I know we have a reputation for overwriting, but I'm fairly sure the final script wasn't overlong in this case; you should have seen how much we had to cut to get it down to (cough) one hour - it could have been a four-parter! I think the difference in running time is down to the nature of story; the court scenes are by their nature more slowly paced, as are the various other more thoughtful moments that are interspersed with the action. That's my excuse, anyway. I liked Judoon in Chains a lot. I wondered what was going to be done with Judoons, as they weren't really a nasty monster in new Who. Just very focused on the rules and carrying them out. I thought the story was an interesting take on the Judoons.
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Post by Ela on Aug 18, 2016 17:46:48 GMT
No they were but I guess I was thinking that it is always possible they were freed somehow. Seems like it would tie in with those Angels being trapped for centuries and weakened when we find them in Blink. I didn't think of that, but it's an interesting conjecture. I really enjoyed the Angels story. I think it was written to work well on audio.
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Post by Ela on Aug 18, 2016 17:55:08 GMT
Terrific set Harvest of the Sycorax {Spoiler}I love the social commentary on a society that seems unwilling or unable to engage in emotional unpredictability, and the lore building and general tone of the Sycorax works great, especially with the Seventh Doctor. I liked that aspect of the story, also. The Sontaran Ordeal {Spoiler} And Serana blowing up at the Doctor just felt really forced. It was trying to mirror Cass's rejection of Eight, and the Universe's growing distain for the Time Lords, but it just doesn't work in this context (Cass knew of the Time Lords before hand, probably grew up hearing stories about them or suffered their fallout first hand, and was in a high stress situation).
Eight has shown himself to be truly kind and trustworthy for as long as Serana knew him, the only Time Lord she ever knew, and she whipped straight from being buddy buddy, to straight out Shakespearean ire. I could have understood an understated wariness; a more reluctant but still unsettling friction between the two of them that left Eight still feeling somewhat rejected. Those problems aside, still a very enjoyable story. 8/10 And agreed regarding your comments on Serana. I really need to listen to The Sontaran Ordeal. Of all the stories, I found I followed it the least well; perhaps I was distracted when I was listening. And I usually love anything Eighth Doctor.
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Post by Whovitt on Aug 23, 2016 9:09:24 GMT
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Post by Ela on Sept 1, 2016 17:22:18 GMT
So the one thing that really struck me about this box set on my first listen through was that I felt that they were a just a tad heavy-handed in establishing known characteristics of the new monsters. What I mean is that certain things that the new monsters did and said in the original television show in which they appeared were repeated and emphasized just a bit too much in the audio stories, almost as if they were trying too hard to establish that these were the same monsters that had originally appeared on television.
Also, I don't care how you differentiate, Sontarans are not a new monster. Classic Sontarans, new Sontarans, they're still Sontarans, recognizable as having first appeared in classic Who.
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Post by nottenst on Nov 16, 2016 15:19:24 GMT
I didn't even manage to save one episode for another day. Great box set all around! Though as for the Angels one, Minor gripe: the 'explanation' of why the two victims couldn't return to the present didn't really make sense to me. Sure, the Doctor has to pop forward and make sure he meets earlier-them for their first time in order to make sure events always play out the same way (the explanation). But why couldn't he, after doing that, pop back to pick up later-them, then drop them off in the present X minutes after early-them were zapped back?
.....
Maybe I missed something. Oh well, still an outstanding episode. Finally was able to listen to my set. Overall a great set, but I was also a bit perplexed about the Doctor's explanation of why he couldn't have brought them back after they disappeared in their present time. He could have taken them with him and have them wait in the TARDIS while he met them their first time. Why couldn't he save them, when he and Martha were saved in Blink? The whole thing was a bit paradoxical.
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Post by nottenst on Nov 17, 2016 2:46:35 GMT
One other question came to me while I started to listen to the behind the scenes material. In the Sycorax story I was wondering how Zanzibar Hashtag really fell for the trap that the Doctor was supposed to be in the vault. I am presuming that her "falling" for the trap was all part of the Doctor's plan. Anyone else think that was the case?
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Post by vivdunstan on Jan 13, 2020 8:40:29 GMT
Just listened to “Fallen Angels”. It was really nice to hear the Fifth Doctor travelling alone and teamed up with a new quasi companion. Refreshing, and I liked the idea of him in a new series style story. Also I was highly amused by the kissing comment. I thought it interesting how the couple reacted differently to the 16th century. Perhaps unsurprisingly the history teacher Joel was happier in the new world, though the specialist knowledge he came out with was more art history than history per se. And for scientist Gabby to have big issues with what had happened made sense. On the downside despite the sound effects used I wasn’t convinced tha Angels worked well on audio. They’re such a visual monster, and audio descriptions of it felt one step too far removed for me. I did like the idea of uncovering the trapped angels , and was a bit surprised it hasn’t been used before - it’s such a good concept. And Dan Starkey was excellent in his role. I was surprised that the couple were trapped in the past at the end . But it did make some sense. So good stuff, but maybe not as good as I’d hoped. Nice historical setting though.
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Post by vivdunstan on Jan 14, 2020 8:02:20 GMT
Just listened to “Judoon in Chains”. Enjoyed this quite a bit, but it seemed overlong, and at 20 minutes from the end I felt the story had been told, and was careering towards an inevitable conclusion. I did like the Victorian England setting though, and the freak show setting. Though parts of this reminded me a lot of BBV’s The Barnacled Baby and Big Finish’s Other Lives, which maybe handled these aspects better. Curious that this is the second story in a row where mirrors were pivotal . I wonder if stories 3 and 4 will also pick up on that.
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Post by vivdunstan on Jan 15, 2020 7:52:19 GMT
Just listened to “Harvest of the Sycorax”. Well this had me grinning from the opening, which was gripping, playful and fun. Even if I’d also whack those watch type thingies! Also so many fun quotes in there, eg: “What about you Doctor? Do you just pop out of nowhere and be rude?” Very Capaldi-esque. The pacing sagged a bit in the middle for me though, and the story became too slight there. Also the fight near the end was rather farcical. But I quite liked the ending. Apart from the Doctor leaving Zanzibar behind. She needed a trip in the TARDIS at the very least, and could have made a good companion. On the medicine issue I was torn, as someone who benefits hugely from daily SSRI pills keeping my severe generalised anxiety disorder under control. I think there is a point to be made re over use of medicine, but this was unsubtle. There’s already far too much resistance among the general public to medicine for mental health, when it can make a big difference to people’s lives who can suffer needlessly otherwise. Oh and Sylvester McCoy sounded like he was having a lot of fun recording this.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jan 15, 2020 8:48:59 GMT
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Post by Kestrel on Oct 2, 2021 21:59:58 GMT
So after much anxious waiting for a sale, I decided to just grab the CDNM bundle -- it is one of the smaller ones, after all -- and now I can say I am very nearly at the point where I will have listened to every single audio drama featuring Paul McGann as the 8th Doctor! Exciting times, exciting times. So--time for my impressions of this first set: CDNM 1.1: Fallen Angels- Was pretty concerned about how well the Angels would function in this story due to the core conceit of the monster relying almost exclusively on visual mechanics--I don't think they were very effective in Doom Coalition(?) EG--but ultimately I think they wound up working fairly well.
- Love the initial hook of the Doctor encountering the time-displaced victims of the Angels. It's a neat inversion of how you'd expect this sort of story to start out.
- Joel is utterly bewildered by everything--how delightfully relatable. Shame we don't see such unfettered confusion more often, but I get it.
- Quote of the episode: "Crying, weeping--let's not get pedantic."
- Really liked the ending but found the optimistic tone a bit... misplaced. Renaissance Europe isn't exactly gonna be a friendly place to live for two people who don't speak any local languages, have any friends, family, money, assets or marketable skills. In the context of fiction i can overlook some things (EG lack of health care) but not everything. To paraphrase The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals, they failed to consider the implications!
- The choir-ish musica seems to be a deliberate attempt to be evocative of Murray Gold's score, something that later releases would get much better at, but ultimately all it did here was make Gold's absence more conspicuous. I have to assume there are very good reasons for it, but as with the 10DAs in general I can't really overstate how unfortunate it is that Big Finish hasn't been able to license any of Murray Gold's work.
CDNM 1.2: Judoon in Chains- Courtroom drama! Holy fishes, y'all, I cannot tell you how much I love science fiction courtroom drama!
- Paired naturally with some tropes I really can't stand: circus shenanigans. Thankfully this bit was a fairly minor aspect of the story, and well offset by the delightful courtroom stuff. Even if it was a bit cheesy.
- Speaking of which, how is that a bad thing? Who doesn't love cheese? I wish I had some white cheddar right now.
- We can all agree, right, that no Doctor is better suited for a lawyer story (TV stories notwithstanding) than Colin Baker's? Right? He just has that perfect courtroom presence.
- Not entirely sold on the "Vogon Poetry" ending.
- Probably my favorite Judoon story so far, not that I have a lot to choose from, but still. It was nice seeing them play a more morally ambiguous role in the story rather than the generic antagonists they've been on TV.
CDNM 1.3: Harvest of the Sycorax- The tone of this one seems weirdly crotchety. Like it was written by the same kind of person who writes those deeply misanthropic op-eds that pop up every year (or bad tweets, daily) whining about how awful younger generations are, what with their neurodiversity and dating apps and texting rendering them incapable of conversation. It almost feels like intentional parody. Almost.
- Quote of the episode: "I think I'm experiencing what they used to call bravery!" Oof.
- Not sure how the audience is supposed to react to a romance that consists of a single scene, and the love interest then dying immediately in the very next scene, but I suspect raucous laughter was not the intended response.
- Ulgh... hashtags. The whole, "young people suck," vibes are so strong in this one.
- Also: why the Sycorax? I'm struggling to think of a less interesting monster to debut in New Who.
- I've said before (and often, and will likely say it again) that I generally don't pay attention to writer credits unless they really impress me, one way or the other. Likewise, I've also argued against prejudging stories on the basis of the writers--and this story is an excellent example of why. As is likely clear, I didn't enjoy it very much. But the writer--James Goss--has written several stories in the past that I greatly enjoyed, and I expect will do so again. This one, though? It's a stinker.
CDNM 1.4: The Sontaran Ordeal- Ah, the Sontarans. The exciting new alien species who debuted so memorably in Russel T. Davie' very first Doctor Who story, written when he was only 10 years old. Very impressive!
- Look, I mean, I love the Sontarans, but really? Here? And for the closing story of the set?
- Seems like an 8DTW story, which is lovely... but seems like a missed opportunity for some Sontaran sulking.
- Okay, so you know what I love about Big Finish audios? Well, one of the things? When they make it clear--absolutely unnecessarily--that the audience should be imagining something low-budget in their minds while listening. You know, like rubber-suit monsters, or goofy cardboard-and-tinfoil robots (as in WM 1.3: The Sky Man). So, here, "the dead lands" are instantly recognizable as a quarry and I love that.
- Quote of the story: "Would it change anything if I said you were dying?"
- Oh, man. I really love all of the internal Sontaran politics going on here. And it must be said, Dan Starkey kicks all kinds of ass as a heroic Sontaran.
- It occurs to me that McGann doesn't have very many solo stories, and he's rather a lot of fun when by himself. (Ditto for McCoy.)
- Thought for sure the diplomacy thing was gonna be the A-plot here, but it kind of just went away, huh?
- Fantastic ending. A downer--how delightful! "There will always be conflict on Drakis." Great stuff. "But I will tell them never to trust a Time Lord. Ever!" Fantastic ending. Would probably land a lot harder, though, if the Doctor had personally betrayed her trust and/or lied to her at any point, but even without that bit of tightening is a solid, deliciously dramatic ending and a perfect note to end the set on.
- Though I am left wanting a bit more: who wouldn't want to see the inside of a Sontaran court? #DoctorWhoNeedsMoreLegalDrama
And so ends my adventures with the first Classic Doctors New Monsters boxset! Overall I really enjoyed it, even if I am now despairing at the thought of only having one more McGann story left to listen to. It is held back a bit, I think, by the third story--which I just couldn't get into at all--as well as, perhaps more crucially, the fact that each story is totally disconnected from the others. There's really no underlying theme tying everything together--even the core conceit of the set, pairing classic-era Doctors with new-era Monsters only satisfies three of the four stories. So it's kind of in a weird set. And the Time War-era setting for the ultimate story feels at odds with that premise, as it ends up setting up the 8th Doctor as more of a bridge into the new Doctors than a Classic Doctor. Which could maybe have been intentional given the music in Fallen Angels? I dunno. If so, I don't think it quite worked. I think ideally this set could have worked better if the Doctor was encountering monsters from their collective future--that these Doctors are meeting these monsters after the monsters encountered the 9th, 10th, 11th or 12th Doctor. That would certainly link the stories together better, right? Otherwise, as we have here, the main thing this set is saying is that none of the "new" monsters were actually new, they were always there, conveniently off-screen, and that just feels unsatisfying. Ah well. It'll be interesting to see how they handle this same task on their next attempt in Classic Doctors New Monsters 2.
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Post by sidestep on Nov 7, 2022 6:12:34 GMT
Enjoyed this boxset 😀. It never fails to impress me how well they do the Weeping Angels on audio: Doom Coalition, Wink, this. I agree that this series is a good entry point for new listeners. If ever someday they decide to add more sample free releases (preferably on Spotify so it can reach wider audience, vs free downloads on their website), I vote for this. 🙂
Re: 2nd story, I like courtroom drama, & was pleased to see 6 handle this situation. Adds to Fantasy Release wishlist: other doctors in sci fi courtroom drama. 😁
The 3rd story with 7 was very meds-heavy. But I liked this unusual situation & plot.
A particular treat for me in the 4th story was Christopher Ryan & Dan Starkey as Sontarans. The Paternoster Gang Heritage 1 was my first ever Big Finish, so I experienced Strax & Stonn’s dynamic earlier than Jask & Stenk in this story (even though this was released first).
Also hoping for more Christopher Ryan in the near future. Doesn’t have to be a Sontaran.
Finally I can watch that Sirens of Audio episode reviewing this release. 👍🏻
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Post by mark687 on Nov 13, 2022 17:19:39 GMT
Belated Poll Added
Regards
mark687
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