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Post by mark687 on Nov 14, 2016 11:57:59 GMT
Trouble with the evolution argument is that the audience haven't, they still watch X Factor and Strictly the difference is RTD's style was accessible for that audience, Moffatt's has never been.
Regards
mark687
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 14, 2016 12:02:46 GMT
I doubt Peter Capaldi is leaving because Moffat said he doesn't believe he will be writing a regeneration any time soon - and I doubt they'd fire Peter Capaldi given the mistake they made with firing Colin Baker (even if merchandising sales aren't as good as they were). At the very least they'll let Peter Capaldi have a regeneration episode then refuse to renew his contract. Pearl Mackie I wouldn't be surprised to see leave after one series, although it would be a shame if the show returned to the RTD mould of one companion/one series.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Nov 14, 2016 12:05:52 GMT
Trouble with the evolution argument is that the audience haven't, they still watch X Factor and Strictly the difference is RTD's style was accessible for that audience, Moffatt's has never been. Regards mark687 The trouble with Doctor Who, is the writing hasn't evolved! The show has become stale, so the audience switch off. X Factor and Strictly are irrelevant to DW. Whose to say that viewers of X Factor or Strictly don't watch DW? Maybe, they are looking for escapism, after watching too much reality?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 14, 2016 12:10:12 GMT
Trouble with the evolution argument is that the audience haven't, they still watch X Factor and Strictly the difference is RTD's style was accessible for that audience, Moffatt's has never been. Regards mark687 The trouble with Doctor Who, is the writing hasn't evolved! The show has become stale, so the audience switch off. X Factor and Strictly are irrelevant to DW. Whose to say that viewers of X Factor or Strictly don't watch DW? Maybe, they are looking for escapism, after watching too much reality? I disagree. The writing in Series 9 was more like the kind on the hugely popular U.S. dramas at the moment than a 2000s sci-fi drama.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 14, 2016 12:12:13 GMT
I don't know I'm not saying I want Capaldi out but it makes more sense for Chibnail to start with a complete new slate.
Regards
marrk687
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Nov 14, 2016 12:16:17 GMT
The trouble with Doctor Who, is the writing hasn't evolved! The show has become stale, so the audience switch off. X Factor and Strictly are irrelevant to DW. Whose to say that viewers of X Factor or Strictly don't watch DW? Maybe, they are looking for escapism, after watching too much reality? I disagree. The writing in Series 9 was more like the kind on the hugely popular U.S. dramas at the moment than a 2000s sci-fi drama. That's one of the problems. It's not an American show!
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 14, 2016 12:18:44 GMT
I disagree. The writing in Series 9 was more like the kind on the hugely popular U.S. dramas at the moment than a 2000s sci-fi drama. That's one of the problems. It's not an American show! Yeah but it has to adapt to the times.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 14, 2016 12:25:06 GMT
Trouble with the evolution argument is that the audience haven't, they still watch X Factor and Strictly the difference is RTD's style was accessible for that audience, Moffatt's has never been. Regards mark687 The trouble with Doctor Who, is the writing hasn't evolved! The show has become stale, so the audience switch off. X Factor and Strictly are irrelevant to DW. Whose to say that viewers of X Factor or Strictly don't watch DW? Maybe, they are looking for escapism, after watching too much reality? I wasn't talking about the writing I was talking about the general audience, all they seem to want is a believable person they can view the Doctor's adventures through, and possibly a more physically active and attractive lead.
Regards
mark687
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Nov 14, 2016 12:27:30 GMT
That's one of the problems. It's not an American show! Yeah but it has to adapt to the times. Nothing wrong with adapting to the times, just don't copy American tv!
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Post by mark687 on Nov 14, 2016 12:27:50 GMT
That's one of the problems. It's not an American show! Yeah but it has to adapt to the times. Yes but it has to work for the UK Audience/Market first, RTD's did, Moffatt's isn't doing it nearly as well.
Regards
mark687
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 13:28:17 GMT
A bit more bombastic than I would have put it, but I can't help and feel similar misgivings about some of the most recent era's trappings. There's a lot that distinguishes RTD and Moffat in terms of style, but the format was very, very same and there were moments when you could tell who did what better and how. Knowing what happened with Modern!Clara replacing Victorian!Clara, I suspect that there's a particular set of marketing guidelines that each showrunner has to follow as mandated by the BBC. Mind you, there are ways of getting around that, so I'm always a bit indecisive when it comes to condemning Moffat's era for retreading some of Davies's ideas. I have no idea whether it's a case of simply won't or simply can't. Davies did a marvellous job reinventing the show for the twenty-first century, it was exactly what it needed to be for that period in time, but I think over a decade on the show has to evolve and move on from that format. The return to classic serials attempted last season was a valiant try, but it wasn't what Doctor Who needed. If you're going that route, then you have to put in the extra effort to have multiple plot threads, fuller characterisations and more interesting settings. It's even more difficult because modern Who didn't feel like Danger Man where the sudden burst of extra runtime freed its wings, a lot was able to be accomplished in those forty-five minutes and RTD managed to sneak in six-parters anyway with stories like Turn Left / The Stolen Earth / Journey's End. It's time for the programme to change and for it to make a commitment to that change. Chibnall's coming in at the right time. The Witch, the Widow and the Wardrobe was actually pretty fun for me until the plot kicked in, which is something that had never happened in Doctor Who for me until then. The Pandorica Opens was a bit meh, but I enjoyed the comparative simplicity of The Big Bang. River disintegrating the fez was actually pretty funny and I enjoyed the paradoxical elements. The little personal niggles like River making the Dalek beg (which I didn't believe, the Dalek would have tried another way to kill her) were really easy to overlook because it was done with a nice breathless sense of fun. If Moffat has been given guidelines, and he wasn't happy with them. He should have left. Constraints would affect creativity. So, Moffat having stayed 6 years, seems to be happy follow said guidelines. Not sure if you meant that the individual episodes need multiple plot threads (which I agree with), or you are referring to the story arc? Series 9 appeared to me more of a one route form of story telling. With no, or little subplot. True, but then you only get one shot at being a Doctor Who producer. Your tenure runs its course and after that you don't get another chance, so I can understand why a certain amount of kowtowing may have happened. If he didn't leave and chose to kick up a fuss, the higher-ups would have sacked him and found someone else. All in all, he did a fairly good job at the beginning with his first year setting up a distinctive style, but I think he definitely hit burnout some point after A Good Man Goes to War. The former rather than the latter. From what I've seen (and this is a very broad strokes approach), a four-parter typically needs three threads -- one for your protagonists, one for your antagonists and at least one for your supporting cast. Personally, I think the story arcs have run their course and ended up being doubly unnecessary for that last season. Is the Doctor a good man? Well... For NuWho he's always been a bit grey, so you can't shock us with the answer. The hybrid? I'm not even sure what that was building up to, if anything at all.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Nov 14, 2016 13:47:34 GMT
If Moffat has been given guidelines, and he wasn't happy with them. He should have left. Constraints would affect creativity. So, Moffat having stayed 6 years, seems to be happy follow said guidelines. Not sure if you meant that the individual episodes need multiple plot threads (which I agree with), or you are referring to the story arc? Series 9 appeared to me more of a one route form of story telling. With no, or little subplot. True, but then you only get one shot at being a Doctor Who producer. Your tenure runs its course and after that you don't get another chance, so I can understand why a certain amount of kowtowing may have happened. If he didn't leave and chose to kick up a fuss, the higher-ups would have sacked him and found someone else. All in all, he did a fairly good job at the beginning with his first year setting up a distinctive style, but I think he definitely hit burnout some point after A Good Man Goes to War. The former rather than the latter. From what I've seen (and this is a very broad strokes approach), a four-parter typically needs three threads -- one for your protagonists, one for your antagonists and at least one for your supporting cast. Personally, I think the story arcs have run their course and ended up being doubly unnecessary for that last season. Is the Doctor a good man? Well... For NuWho he's always been a bit grey, so you can't shock us with the answer. The hybrid? I'm not even sure what that was building up to, if anything at all. During his tenure, he has written for 3 new Doctors, plus a one off McGann, in a 6 series period. Hardly, "one shot"!
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Nov 14, 2016 13:51:45 GMT
Yeah but it has to adapt to the times. Yes but it has to work for the UK Audience/Market first, RTD's did, Moffatt's isn't doing it nearly as well.
Regards
mark687
It does though because what do any of us watch here at the moment? U.S. sci-fi dramas.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 14:01:50 GMT
I don't get why everyone on here is complaining about this decision. If anything I think it's good news. The plotlines have, as of late, been very poor quality or over-complicated. Also, Capaldi, in a lot of people I know's eyes, a weak incarnation and just seems not to be bothered. I would also note that the Doctor, at his best, has always been a dashing character. Look at Pertwee, Baker and Tennant, they are the most popular, in terms of the public, probably, and were all running around a lot. I hope this turns out to be true.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 14, 2016 14:08:03 GMT
Yes but it has to work for the UK Audience/Market first, RTD's did, Moffatt's isn't doing it nearly as well.
Regards
mark687
It does though because what do any of us watch here at the moment? U.S. sci-fi dramas. Yes but we're not talking the audience of "Us" on this Forum that will try and watch it whatever, we're talking an audience that watches reality TV and for whatever reason also made sure to watch DW in the RTD era which they aren't doing now.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 14:08:54 GMT
Yes but it has to work for the UK Audience/Market first, RTD's did, Moffatt's isn't doing it nearly as well.
Regards
mark687
It does though because what do any of us watch here at the moment? U.S. sci-fi dramas. That isn't strictly true. A lot of people who watch Doctor Who don't watch it for that, I'd say. Especially not the general public. It should have more of a horror turn, a bit of action in there and a bit of emotion, too. Moffat's era doesn't work, on fundamental reasons, since it replicated the early-mid 80s decisions, which got the show cancelled.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Nov 14, 2016 14:28:41 GMT
Yes but it has to work for the UK Audience/Market first, RTD's did, Moffatt's isn't doing it nearly as well.
Regards
mark687
It does though because what do any of us watch here at the moment? U.S. sci-fi dramas. TheBritishh public doesn't get a choice in what tv programmes channels import. There's probably some US shows we don't get that are very good. I don't watch the DC and Marvel Universe shows.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Nov 14, 2016 17:29:07 GMT
For the record, Series 9 is my favourite series of the show. Ah well, if Series 10 is Capaldi's last at least that means the possibility of him doing Big Finish could happen sooner rather later...and if I stop watching again it will give me more time catch up on audios.
Someone on G.B has claimed:
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Nov 14, 2016 18:54:40 GMT
Someone on G.B has claimed that a 'source' confirmed the S10 spoilers as all true, but has no information about whether Capaldi is staying on or not, i.m.o The Mirror may simply have repeated what they have been saying every year since Capaldi started (they were claiming right up to the broadcast of Series 8 that he would be a one series and done doctor) to pad out the article...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 19:54:24 GMT
Hm... Well, in terms of Series 10, so far:
A Star In Her Eye By Moffat
TBC By Frank Cottral Boyce
TBC By Sarah Dollard
The Haunted Hub By Mike Bartlett
Afterwards, we know a classic writer is writing a story. This writer is most likely Rona Munro at this point. We also know Gatiss will write a story towards the end of the blocks. We know that Moffat is very probably writing a 3 part finale. There's also Jamie Mathieson writing episode 5 or 9. And allegedly a new writer, but that could be Munro. Also, Mathieson might write a second story. There's also Peter Harness, who's meant to be writing a story for the season. However, I think the best guess there is Harness, as the other two are plausible, but less likely, I'd say. In terms of stories, there's allegedly a Cyberman story mid-way through. Moffat also said there'd be two-parters in the season. That could change, but, at a guess, that is probably the two-parter. There's also the Peladon story. That's either Gatiss or Harness, based on their previous works. Then there's a historical story, that is either 5 or 9. I'd personally reckon they'd have it as 9, since there would only be a one episode gap between historicals and that has rarely occurred before. So, now, I'll fill it in with that data:
A Star In Her Eye By Moffat
TBC By Frank Cottral Boyce
TBC By Sarah Dollard
The Haunted Hub By Mike Bartlett
TBC By Jamie Mathieson, Rona Munro or Peter Harness
Cyberman Story Part 1 By Rona Munro, Peter Harness or Mark Gatiss
Cyberman Story Part 2 By Rona Munro, Peter Harness or Mark Gatiss
TBC By Rona Munro, Peter Harness or Mark Gatiss
Medieval TBC By Jamie Mathieson, Rona Munro or Peter Harness
TBC Part 1 By Steven Moffat
TBC Part 2 By Steven Moffat
TBC Part 3 By Steven Moffat
That's the likely list, but here's my predictions: A Star In Her Eye By Moffat
TBC By Frank Cottral Boyce
TBC By Sarah Dollard
The Haunted Hub By Mike Bartlett
TBC By Rona Munro
Cyberman Story Part 1 By Mark Gatiss
Cyberman Story Part 2 By Mark Gatiss
Peladon Story By Peter Harness
Medieval TBC By Jamie Mathieson
TBC Part 1 By Steven Moffat
TBC Part 2 By Steven Moffat
TBC Part 3 By Steven Moffat
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