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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 22, 2017 23:48:34 GMT
While I'm not a fan of 42, I do feel like it is crammed with a lot of stuff it never really develops, I do rather like The Power of Three and I especially like Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. I would also caution people that we don't know how heavy a hand the show's respective head writers & producers at the time had with the final scripted version that went in front of the camera or the final transmitted version.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 0:03:54 GMT
While I'm not a fan of 42, I do feel like it is crammed with a lot of stuff it never really develops, I do rather like The Power of Three and I especially like Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. I would also caution people that we don't know how heavy a hand the show's respective head writers & producers at the time had with the final scripted version that went in front of the camera or the final transmitted version. I'm very evenhanded with Hide for that reason specifically. I'm not a fan of the tacked-on "searching for love" ending, but considering it turns up almost identically in Time Heist which was written by a different author, so I'm inclined to believe that it was an addition in script editing. Part of Vengeance on Varos's genius is down not only to lovely Philip Martin, but also Eric Saward (Arak and Etta) and the actors themselves who added several aspects in rehearsals (like the tethered poison vines, originally Quillam and the Chief just drove into them). |
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 23, 2017 0:10:10 GMT
While I'm not a fan of 42, I do feel like it is crammed with a lot of stuff it never really develops, I do rather like The Power of Three and I especially like Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. I would also caution people that we don't know how heavy a hand the show's respective head writers & producers at the time had with the final scripted version that went in front of the camera or the final transmitted version. I'm very evenhanded with Hide for that reason specifically. I'm not a fan of the tacked-on "searching for love" ending, but considering it turns up almost identically in Time Heist which was written by a different author, so I'm inclined to believe that it was an addition in script editing. Part of Vengeance on Varos's genius is down not only to lovely Philip Martin, but also Eric Saward (Arak and Etta) and the actors themselves who added several aspects in rehearsals (like the tethered poison vines, originally Quillam and the Chief just drove into them). Oh was Hide him as well? That was the proposed Quatermass crossover, right? With Dougray Smith? If yes, then I kind of liked that one as well. I don't think any of his episodes light the world on fire but I would put Dinosaurs & Hide as better than average 11th Doctor episodes. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 0:15:08 GMT
I'm very evenhanded with Hide for that reason specifically. I'm not a fan of the tacked-on "searching for love" ending, but considering it turns up almost identically in Time Heist which was written by a different author, so I'm inclined to believe that it was an addition in script editing. Part of Vengeance on Varos's genius is down not only to lovely Philip Martin, but also Eric Saward (Arak and Etta) and the actors themselves who added several aspects in rehearsals (like the tethered poison vines, originally Quillam and the Chief just drove into them). Oh was Hide him as well? That was the proposed Quatermass crossover, right? With Dougray Smith? If yes, then I kind of liked that one as well. I don't think any of his episodes light the world on fire but I would put Dinosaurs & Hide as better than average 11th Doctor episodes. Oh, no. Nope, that was Neil Cross. I would use a Chibnall example, but I honestly don't have enough of an inkling to make a proper supposition. It's a bit off-topic, but I enjoyed the characterisations of Alec and Emma quite a lot. I thought about writing an unofficial novelisation of it ages ago, but unfortunately, it fell by the wayside. It's a nice retelling of The Stone Tape with some genuine atmosphere, I rather enjoyed it . |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 1:52:37 GMT
I'm glad you are so sure, and I hope you are right but a lot of people are nervous and that's okay. Change is something that can be scary and a lot of people love this show more than any other. It really won't help when you are automatically dismissive of differing opinions, it would be much better if you were to accept them. Or tolerate them, if not accept them. That's okay too. Exactly. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 5:25:43 GMT
HACK FRAUD? Another opinionated oik! What a horrible little video. He is sort of right about Chibnall having a timer in all his scripts. What's wrong with that? It's a good dramatic plot device. It's got to be better than RTDs obsession with vertical chase scenes. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 6:21:59 GMT
He is sort of right about Chibnall having a timer in all his scripts. What's wrong with that? It's a good dramatic plot device. It's got to be better than RTDs obsession with vertical chase scenes. Huh. I never noticed that before. That's kind of cool actually. I'd like to see someone try and assemble all the standard tropes found in Doctor Who script writer's stories, I'd be very interested in what they find for David Whitaker. Besides, if we're singling out this particular writer for putting a timer in all his scripts, then surely -- and again I use Holmes because there's so much written on him -- Bob Holmes's multiple grotesques orchestrating events through an intelligent menial from a dark lair, qualifies as hack fraudster work as well, surely? Or Terry Nation with his alien cities, monstrous landscapes and repeated appearance of characters called Tarrant? I object to the "HACK FRAUD" label because it assumes that a writer must not work for a living (no, no, we get paid by exposure... to the glacial, winter elements), that he has written frequently and poorly (wrong writer to be criticising for that one) and that he's a liar (because he has produced work?). It's a bullying tabloid tag and, to be perfectly honest, not worth the syllables required to discuss it at length. |
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Aug 23, 2017 7:32:13 GMT
What's wrong with that? It's a good dramatic plot device. It's got to be better than RTDs obsession with vertical chase scenes. Huh. I never noticed that before. That's kind of cool actually. I'd like to see someone try and assemble all the standard tropes found in Doctor Who script writer's stories, I'd be very interested in what they find for David Whitaker. Besides, if we're singling out this particular writer for putting a timer in all his scripts, then surely -- and again I use Holmes because there's so much written on him -- Bob Holmes's multiple grotesques orchestrating events through an intelligent menial from a dark lair, qualifies as hack fraudster work as well, surely? Or Terry Nation with his alien cities, monstrous landscapes and repeated appearance of characters called Tarrant? I object to the "HACK FRAUD" label because it assumes that a writer must not work for a living (no, no, we get paid by exposure... to the glacial, winter elements), that he has written frequently and poorly (wrong writer to be criticising for that one) and that he's a liar (because he has produced work?). It's a bullying tabloid tag and, to be perfectly honest, not worth the syllables required to discuss it at length. To be fair, in the case of Terry Nation, by the time of Death to the Daleks, those repeating tropes do start to become a little tiresome. As Hinchcliffe (I think?) remarked on the Genesis bonus features when he said he'd told Nation that he liked the (rejected in favour of Genesis) story he'd written – and he'd liked it when he'd written it last year as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 7:43:36 GMT
Huh. I never noticed that before. That's kind of cool actually. I'd like to see someone try and assemble all the standard tropes found in Doctor Who script writer's stories, I'd be very interested in what they find for David Whitaker. Besides, if we're singling out this particular writer for putting a timer in all his scripts, then surely -- and again I use Holmes because there's so much written on him -- Bob Holmes's multiple grotesques orchestrating events through an intelligent menial from a dark lair, qualifies as hack fraudster work as well, surely? Or Terry Nation with his alien cities, monstrous landscapes and repeated appearance of characters called Tarrant? I object to the "HACK FRAUD" label because it assumes that a writer must not work for a living (no, no, we get paid by exposure... to the glacial, winter elements), that he has written frequently and poorly (wrong writer to be criticising for that one) and that he's a liar (because he has produced work?). It's a bullying tabloid tag and, to be perfectly honest, not worth the syllables required to discuss it at length. To be fair, in the case of Terry Nation, by the time of Death to the Daleks, those repeating tropes do start to become a little tiresome. As Hinchcliffe (I think?) remarked on the Genesis bonus features when he said he'd told Nation that he liked the (rejected in favour of Genesis) story he'd written – and he'd liked it when he'd written it last year as well. Yeah, I'll admit to that one. Nation borrowed quite a lot more than just some of his own tropes, I believe that there is a case of The Saint and The Baron both airing the same episode on the same evening because he'd gotten so desperate for script ideas he'd dusted off one of his old entries. Poor man. |
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Post by shutupbanks on Aug 23, 2017 9:14:42 GMT
What's wrong with that? It's a good dramatic plot device. It's got to be better than RTDs obsession with vertical chase scenes. Huh. I never noticed that before. That's kind of cool actually. I'd like to see someone try and assemble all the standard tropes found in Doctor Who script writer's stories, I'd be very interested in what they find for David Whitaker. Besides, if we're singling out this particular writer for putting a timer in all his scripts, then surely -- and again I use Holmes because there's so much written on him -- Bob Holmes's multiple grotesques orchestrating events through an intelligent menial from a dark lair, qualifies as hack fraudster work as well, surely? Or Terry Nation with his alien cities, monstrous landscapes and repeated appearance of characters called Tarrant? I object to the "HACK FRAUD" label because it assumes that a writer must not work for a living (no, no, we get paid by exposure... to the glacial, winter elements), that he has written frequently and poorly (wrong writer to be criticising for that one) and that he's a liar (because he has produced work?). It's a bullying tabloid tag and, to be perfectly honest, not worth the syllables required to discuss it at length. Every writer has tics and habits and obsessions that they put in their work and while it may seem like they're recycling ideas it's often just something they do for fun or because it's the best lens they have for examining their ideas: like Stephen King constantly referring to 50s music in a lot of his novels or Stephen Donaldson's overuse of the word "clench" or Tarantino's foot obsession. It doesn't make them a lesser writer, just a more human one. |
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Post by valeyard on Aug 23, 2017 9:57:11 GMT
I've never been a fan of Chris Chibnalls writing. In the Hack Fraud video, Nitpix has clearly observed that Chibnall always uses a countdown. Nitpix hasn't lied, he's observed and given an opinion.
As for, Dinosuars on a Spaceship, it's one of the worst DW episodes ever. If the Doctor can leave the ship to go back in time to collect some new companions, why doesn't he simply go back to before Solomon landed on the ship, and avert the massacre? The "comedy", and I use that word loosely, Mitchell and Webb robots are awful! With all the time the spaceship was in space, they never found a suitable planet???
Nothing worthy happens in Power of Three, another really poor script!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 10:49:53 GMT
I've never been a fan of Chris Chibnalls writing. In the Hack Fraud video, Nitpix has clearly observed that Chibnall always uses a countdown. Nitpix hasn't lied, he's observed and given an opinion. Yup, and we're giving ours without having to shout about it. Huh. I never noticed that before. That's kind of cool actually. I'd like to see someone try and assemble all the standard tropes found in Doctor Who script writer's stories, I'd be very interested in what they find for David Whitaker. Besides, if we're singling out this particular writer for putting a timer in all his scripts, then surely -- and again I use Holmes because there's so much written on him -- Bob Holmes's multiple grotesques orchestrating events through an intelligent menial from a dark lair, qualifies as hack fraudster work as well, surely? Or Terry Nation with his alien cities, monstrous landscapes and repeated appearance of characters called Tarrant? I object to the "HACK FRAUD" label because it assumes that a writer must not work for a living (no, no, we get paid by exposure... to the glacial, winter elements), that he has written frequently and poorly (wrong writer to be criticising for that one) and that he's a liar (because he has produced work?). It's a bullying tabloid tag and, to be perfectly honest, not worth the syllables required to discuss it at length. Every writer has tics and habits and obsessions that they put in their work and while it may seem like they're recycling ideas it's often just something they do for fun or because it's the best lens they have for examining their ideas: like Stephen King constantly referring to 50s music in a lot of his novels or Stephen Donaldson's overuse of the word "clench" or Tarantino's foot obsession. It doesn't make them a lesser writer, just a more human one. Exactly. You can even make the argument that it's precisely those certain tics and quirks that bring a unique appeal to their work. Alan Moore and his love of intertextuality, Neil Gaiman and his fascination with the uncanny, Chris Boucher and his plotting schemers, Kate Orman and her hurt/comfort, Robert Shearman and his extremely dark comedy, the list goes on and on. I always love unpacking those things with authors, seeing what keeps turning up and why that might be the case. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 11:31:32 GMT
Well, in Classic Who, the Doctor couldn't steer the TARDIS ... ... except when he could. Again, nicely vague. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 5:48:09 GMT
The similarities are startling, aren't they? The truth is, it seems to me, in Doctor Who, everything can be resolved simply by the Doctor going back in time and sorting things out. This is one reason why the TV movie was badly received by those who like to receive these things badly - that The Doctor simply went back in time to save Grace and Chang Lee; if he can do that for them, why can't he do that every time? Ah, because of the 'fixed point' stuff, which is a nicely vague way of explaining why The Doctor can't break 'the first rule of time'. For a time-travel show to last over fifty years without allowing itself to use time-travel as a way of solving problems, I don't think it has done too badly!  I think that it's usually a fairly simple answer. The Doctor can't go back and fix the situation he's in or he wouldn't be in it, so he wouldn't know to go back. A Time Lord should be careful before wrapping his timestream in loops. Exactly. So in Dinosaurs the Doctor can go all over time to construct a team to help solve the problem, but can't just go back and stop the pproblem existing since he already knows it exists. He'd create a paradox. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 6:28:25 GMT
I think that it's usually a fairly simple answer. The Doctor can't go back and fix the situation he's in or he wouldn't be in it, so he wouldn't know to go back. A Time Lord should be careful before wrapping his timestream in loops. Exactly. So in Dinosaurs the Doctor can go all over time to construct a team to help solve the problem, but can't just go back and stop the pproblem existing since he already knows it exists. He'd create a paradox. That's more the modus operandi of Faction Paradox, who I'll point out are the Time Lord equivalent of carrion-eaters. |
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Post by mrperson on Aug 24, 2017 17:18:39 GMT
I've never been a fan of Chris Chibnalls writing. In the Hack Fraud video, Nitpix has clearly observed that Chibnall always uses a countdown. Nitpix hasn't lied, he's observed and given an opinion. As for, Dinosuars on a Spaceship, it's one of the worst DW episodes ever. If the Doctor can leave the ship to go back in time to collect some new companions, why doesn't he simply go back to before Solomon landed on the ship, and avert the massacre? The "comedy", and I use that word loosely, Mitchell and Webb robots are awful! With all the time the spaceship was in space, they never found a suitable planet??? Nothing worthy happens in Power of Three, another really poor script! Because that would create a classic causal loop. Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. |
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Post by acousticwolf on Aug 24, 2017 18:04:31 GMT
I like The Power of Three, some great (thought provoking) interaction between the Doctor and Amy, the Doctor and Kate... And we get Brian!
If it wasn't for the robots (and their non comedy-value), Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is actually a pretty good story, not to mention dark.
Torchwood:Countrycide is one of the scariest things I've seen and shows perfectly how monstrous humans can be.
I'm very open to CB...
Cheers
Tony
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Post by valeyard on Aug 24, 2017 18:05:17 GMT
I've never been a fan of Chris Chibnalls writing. In the Hack Fraud video, Nitpix has clearly observed that Chibnall always uses a countdown. Nitpix hasn't lied, he's observed and given an opinion. As for, Dinosuars on a Spaceship, it's one of the worst DW episodes ever. If the Doctor can leave the ship to go back in time to collect some new companions, why doesn't he simply go back to before Solomon landed on the ship, and avert the massacre? The "comedy", and I use that word loosely, Mitchell and Webb robots are awful! With all the time the spaceship was in space, they never found a suitable planet??? Nothing worthy happens in Power of Three, another really poor script! Because that would create a classic causal loop. Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. Yet, you are all happy with Moffat erasing the Doctor from time and space, and having Amy remember someone who never existed! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 18:59:02 GMT
Because that would create a classic causal loop. Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. Yet, you are all happy with Moffat erasing the Doctor from time and space, and having Amy remember someone who never existed! Not the same thing at all, but no, we're not all happy with that, it gets plenty of criticism. Why are you being needlessly inflammatory? |
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Aug 24, 2017 22:28:17 GMT
I like The Power of Three, some great (thought provoking) interaction between the Doctor and Amy, the Doctor and Kate... And we get Brian! If it wasn't for the robots (and their non comedy-value), Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is actually a pretty good story, not to mention dark. Torchwood:Countrycide is one of the scariest things I've seen and shows perfectly how monstrous humans can be. I'm very open to CB... Cheers Tony While I do have my issues with him, there are enough brilliant aspects to his episodes that I'm interested to see what he does when "off the leash." His major strength is character work, which will be easier to see when he's doing the whole series instead of a couple episodes. |
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