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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 0:42:00 GMT
I like The Power of Three, some great (thought provoking) interaction between the Doctor and Amy, the Doctor and Kate... And we get Brian! If it wasn't for the robots (and their non comedy-value), Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is actually a pretty good story, not to mention dark. Torchwood:Countrycide is one of the scariest things I've seen and shows perfectly how monstrous humans can be. I'm very open to CB... Cheers Tony While I do have my issues with him, there are enough brilliant aspects to his episodes that I'm interested to see what he does when "off the leash." His major strength is character work, which will be easier to see when he's doing the whole series instead of a couple episodes. And his episodes definitely have a distinctive texture to them. I'm inclined to believe that he'll have the show's tone down from the first episode. Barring BBC interference, it'll certainly be a far cry from the Buckaroo Banzai zaniness of the Eleventh Doctor.
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Post by mrperson on Aug 26, 2017 3:34:07 GMT
Because that would create a classic causal loop. Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. Yet, you are all happy with Moffat erasing the Doctor from time and space, and having Amy remember someone who never existed! "you are all"
Either you are somehow confusing me with someone else, or generally attacking everyone because...... because reasons. I was talking about the specific thing I bolded. Don't try to extrapolate that back to some opinion you think I might have about other prior episodes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 9:31:04 GMT
Yet, you are all happy with Moffat erasing the Doctor from time and space, and having Amy remember someone who never existed! "you are all"
Either you are somehow confusing me with someone else, or generally attacking everyone because...... because reasons. The latter, I fear, if history is anything to go by.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 26, 2017 16:02:18 GMT
Because that would create a classic causal loop. Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. --> Doctor lands. Doctor sees problem. Doctor goes back in time to avert problem. Therefore, earlier-Doctor would not have found a problem when he landed. Therefore earlier-Doctor would not go back in time to solve problem. Therefore, the problem would happen. Yet, you are all happy with Moffat erasing the Doctor from time and space, and having Amy remember someone who never existed! That's not relevant in the slightest. The problem of time travelling to avert it all, is possible in every single episode. It's even addressed The Parting of the Ways where the Doctor explains he's part of events so can't avert previous events leading up to it. It's not a problem unique to Chibnall.
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Post by valeyard on Aug 26, 2017 21:59:29 GMT
Yet, you are all happy with Moffat erasing the Doctor from time and space, and having Amy remember someone who never existed! That's not relevant in the slightest. The problem of time travelling to avert it all, is possible in every single episode. It's even addressed The Parting of the Ways where the Doctor explains he's part of events so can't avert previous events leading up to it. It's not a problem unique to Chibnall. So, Why have the Doctor land on Mars before the "God Save The Queen" rock message is made in Empress of Mars?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 2:45:06 GMT
That's not relevant in the slightest. The problem of time travelling to avert it all, is possible in every single episode. It's even addressed The Parting of the Ways where the Doctor explains he's part of events so can't avert previous events leading up to it. It's not a problem unique to Chibnall. So, Why have the Doctor land on Mars before the "God Save The Queen" rock message is made in Empress of Mars? Classic metaphysical logic. We're seeing effect before cause in much the same way as the fossilised dinosaur bones before Earthshock's freighter. The Moffat era struggles quite a bit with making it internally consistent (particularly with the Forrest Gump approach that staples new elements into old scenes), but it's not a new phenomenon. The most inventive use of "effect then cause" in the television series I think was that first episode of The Space Museum when they jumped the time track and Day of the Daleks's central conceit is all about seeing what will happen if Styles fails, before Styles has failed.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Aug 27, 2017 3:14:05 GMT
That's not relevant in the slightest. The problem of time travelling to avert it all, is possible in every single episode. It's even addressed The Parting of the Ways where the Doctor explains he's part of events so can't avert previous events leading up to it. It's not a problem unique to Chibnall. So, Why have the Doctor land on Mars before the "God Save The Queen" rock message is made in Empress of Mars? Find me the part of the episode where the Doctor averts the rock message being put there, causing a paradox that means he couldn't go back. You can't, because it doesn't exist. You're just bringing up random Moffat-era things you had an issue with rather than actually accepting that you were wrong. Frankly, it's getting a little tiresome.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 27, 2017 5:03:39 GMT
So, Why have the Doctor land on Mars before the "God Save The Queen" rock message is made in Empress of Mars? Find me the part of the episode where the Doctor averts the rock message being put there, causing a paradox that means he couldn't go back. You can't, because it doesn't exist. You're just bringing up random Moffat-era things you had an issue with rather than actually accepting that you were wrong. Frankly, it's getting a little tiresome. But but but.......PLOT HOLES!!!....perceived or otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 6:45:34 GMT
Find me the part of the episode where the Doctor averts the rock message being put there, causing a paradox that means he couldn't go back. You can't, because it doesn't exist. You're just bringing up random Moffat-era things you had an issue with rather than actually accepting that you were wrong. Frankly, it's getting a little tiresome. But but but.......PLOT HOLES!!!....perceived or otherwise. Isn't that what we're here for? I mean... We have a whole season that may (Dicks thought so) or may not (Guerrier thought not) have happened to explain away The Two Doctors and anomalies in Spearhead from Space onwards. I find it kind of great that Doctor Who has become so vast that we've now got continuity errors between separate accounts intended to get rid of them ( World Game, The Black Hole, Birthright, etc.). Knitting them altogether is a very interesting experience.
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Post by valeyard on Aug 27, 2017 8:07:11 GMT
So, Why have the Doctor land on Mars before the "God Save The Queen" rock message is made in Empress of Mars? Find me the part of the episode where the Doctor averts the rock message being put there, causing a paradox that means he couldn't go back. You can't, because it doesn't exist. You're just bringing up random Moffat-era things you had an issue with rather than actually accepting that you were wrong. Frankly, it's getting a little tiresome. Who said anything about averting the message? It's a paradox. The Doctor leaves the message, but he sees the message before he builds it. Simple.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Aug 27, 2017 8:14:20 GMT
Find me the part of the episode where the Doctor averts the rock message being put there, causing a paradox that means he couldn't go back. You can't, because it doesn't exist. You're just bringing up random Moffat-era things you had an issue with rather than actually accepting that you were wrong. Frankly, it's getting a little tiresome. Who said anything about averting the message? It's a paradox. The Doctor leaves the message, but he sees the message before he builds it. Simple. It's a predestination paradox, which are entirely sustainable as there is no contradiction. The Doctor saw the message, went back, and the message was made so he could see the message. No contradictions. This is entirely different from the Doctor preventing events he had already participated in from happening, which is what would happen if he'd gone back in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, which was what you were originally complaining about before dragging us on ten more tangents. But my point is that it had literally nothing to do with the point you responded to. Neither did Amy remembering the Doctor back into existence. You just keep replying with more and more "plot holes" instead of actually defending your arguments. Even if you were right and these things were issues, they still wouldn't validate your original argument.
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Post by valeyard on Aug 27, 2017 8:25:58 GMT
Who said anything about averting the message? It's a paradox. The Doctor leaves the message, but he sees the message before he builds it. Simple. It's a predestination paradox, which are entirely sustainable as there is no contradiction. The Doctor saw the message, went back, and the message was made so he could see the message. No contradictions. This is entirely different from the Doctor preventing events he had already participated in from happening, which is what would happen if he'd gone back in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, which was what you were originally complaining about before dragging us on ten more tangents. But my point is that it had literally nothing to do with the point you responded to. Neither did Amy remembering the Doctor back into existence. You just keep replying with more and more "plot holes" instead of actually defending your arguments. Even if you were right and these things were issues, they still wouldn't validate your original argument. My original argument about Dinosaurs would have made a better story, than the one we got.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 9:55:21 GMT
It's a predestination paradox, which are entirely sustainable as there is no contradiction. The Doctor saw the message, went back, and the message was made so he could see the message. No contradictions. This is entirely different from the Doctor preventing events he had already participated in from happening, which is what would happen if he'd gone back in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, which was what you were originally complaining about before dragging us on ten more tangents. But my point is that it had literally nothing to do with the point you responded to. Neither did Amy remembering the Doctor back into existence. You just keep replying with more and more "plot holes" instead of actually defending your arguments. Even if you were right and these things were issues, they still wouldn't validate your original argument. My original argument about Dinosaurs would have made a better story, than the one we got. Then go write it.
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Post by number13 on Aug 27, 2017 12:40:32 GMT
So, Why have the Doctor land on Mars before the "God Save The Queen" rock message is made in Empress of Mars? Classic metaphysical logic. We're seeing effect before cause in much the same way as the fossilised dinosaur bones before Earthshock's freighter. The Moffat era struggles quite a bit with making it internally consistent (particularly with the Forrest Gump approach that staples new elements into old scenes), but it's not a new phenomenon. The most inventive use of "effect then cause" in the television series I think was that first episode of The Space Museum when they jumped the time track and Day of the Daleks's central conceit is all about seeing what will happen if Styles fails, before Styles has failed. 'Day of the Daleks' originally had a short coda, written but never filmed, where the Doctor and Jo see themselves in the lab at UNIT again, completing the loop started earlier in the story. But the significant part is that the Doctor tries to explain to Jo about the Styles / Daleks / guerillas paradox they have just helped solve: 'I was able to intervene and put history back on its proper tracks.' And Jo replies, 'I know, because you're a Time Lord.' They didn't go around waving their symbiotic nuclei (Of Rassilon) in those days, but for 1970s me that simple explanation was good enough; the Doctor could end the time loop / paradox because as a Time Lord he stood outside Time in some way. The laws that governed what he could and could not do were legal laws of Gallifrey rather than physical laws of the Universe. The tricky bit (which I never noticed at the time) is passed over quickly - the paradox began not because of the actions of the guerillas (although they were the direct cause of the loop) but because the Daleks changed history to one in which they could conquer the Earth. Dalek time technology in DOTD is very primitive so how they could do what the Doctor later did in reverse is a mystery. Perhaps it was an accident, part of their time research which went wrong and gave them an unexpected result? Possibly the future seen in DOTD was an existing, alternative timeline which the Daleks broke into by accident? That would tie in with the Doctor's statement that he had 'put history back on its proper tracks'. (Fun fact: I read Terrance Dicks' brilliant novelisation so many times in the 1970s that when the VHS came out I was disappointed that it didn't match the story as I 'remembered' it. So my TV memory was of a story which had never existed in that form, right down to that (unfilmed) final lab scene which I clearly remembered seeing!)
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Post by valeyard on Aug 27, 2017 13:38:24 GMT
Is someone deleting comments?
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Aug 27, 2017 14:28:49 GMT
Is someone deleting comments? Gouda is one of those cheeses that does not benefit from wearing a sombrero.
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Post by valeyard on Aug 27, 2017 14:32:20 GMT
Is someone deleting comments? Gouda is one of those cheeses that does not benefit from wearing a sombrero. Are you high?
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Aug 27, 2017 14:34:45 GMT
Gouda is one of those cheeses that does not benefit from wearing a sombrero. Are you high? You could make a tiny one, perhaps a reputable costumier or even a skilled cosplayer could help, but even so, culturally speaking, Queso Blanco would be your preferred variety for that sort of a hat.
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Post by valeyard on Aug 27, 2017 14:44:15 GMT
You could make a tiny one, perhaps a reputable costumier or even a skilled cosplayer could help, but even so, culturally speaking, Queso Blanco would be your preferred variety for that sort of a hat. Can an admin please have a word?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 16:36:03 GMT
You could make a tiny one, perhaps a reputable costumier or even a skilled cosplayer could help, but even so, culturally speaking, Queso Blanco would be your preferred variety for that sort of a hat. Can an admin please have a word? What word would you like? I think Exterminate is a nice word.
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