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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 6, 2017 22:36:23 GMT
I'd actually like to get a series of stories that followed the New Dalek Paradigm and what they got up to after Victory of the Daleks. The reconstruction of Skaro sounds like a really, really interesting story. Their devious machinations as they get planets to destroy themselves for spare parts or struggles to find a suitable location in which to place their new home. Yeah, Legacy of the Daleks kind of sticks out like a sore thumb compared to stories like An Earthly Child nowadays. I'd be very interested to see whether Susan really did call in the Time Lords for Dark Eyes and what exactly that cost her on Earth. I very much doubt she would have been allowed to stay, mourn and continue with the reconstruction. They've had demanded her extradition back to Gallifrey. That would be something. You could say that They are rebuilding Skaro again after the Time war in Asylum, after Victory and Its finally completed before Magician. It works for me. Maybe that could be Series 5 of Dalek Empire . Yeah I think that Series four of BF's EDA's wipe Legacy away, also from what I've read the Master stuff was kind of stupid lol. Legacy could never be adapted BF's Master trilogy also contradicts Legacy.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 7, 2017 9:31:24 GMT
That would be something. You could say that They are rebuilding Skaro again after the Time war in Asylum, after Victory and Its finally completed before Magician. It works for me. Maybe that could be Series 5 of Dalek Empire . Yeah I think that Series four of BF's EDA's wipe Legacy away, also from what I've read the Master stuff was kind of stupid lol. Legacy could never be adapted BF's Master trilogy also contradicts Legacy. Could argue that the future Master's actions in The Two Masters change time, stopping the events of Legacy happening.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 7, 2017 13:48:29 GMT
BF's Master trilogy also contradicts Legacy. Could argue that the future Master's actions in The Two Masters change time, stopping the events of Legacy happening. And I think most people would be fine with that, some of the EDA's have weak stories, inconsistent characterization or bad pacing...but Legacy is the only one I've read that not only had all three (i.m.o) but just failed to grab my interest at all, even the weakest stories in the range have at least some redeeming features or were entertaining enough to wile away an hour or two, but Legacy I honestly found utterly boring... On the other hand I loved the much derided War Of The Daleks so what do I know?
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 7, 2017 20:51:53 GMT
BF's Master trilogy also contradicts Legacy. Could argue that the future Master's actions in The Two Masters change time, stopping the events of Legacy happening. I don't think that that really works though. Legacy has the Delgado Master become all crusty and end up on Tersurus. The Two Masters has a healthy Beevers Master show up on Tersurus where the Macqueen Master shoots him. If there was a change in the timeline, it has to be before the Macqueen Master went back.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 7, 2017 23:04:06 GMT
Could argue that the future Master's actions in The Two Masters change time, stopping the events of Legacy happening. I don't think that that really works though. Legacy has the Delgado Master become all crusty and end up on Tersurus. The Two Masters has a healthy Beevers Master show up on Tersurus where the Macqueen Master shoots him. If there was a change in the timeline, it has to be before the Macqueen Master went back. At a guess I'd say in the original timeline the old Master goes to Tersurus, leaves and then goes through Legacy-maybe the reason his TARDIS goes back at the end is Susan leant on the fast return switch? Then in the new timeline he gets cooked on his first visit so Legacy never happens. Is Legacy completely definitive about it being the Delagdo Master? As we don't have any idea what pre-crusty Beevers looked like, could it be him instead?
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 8, 2017 4:26:28 GMT
I don't think that that really works though. Legacy has the Delgado Master become all crusty and end up on Tersurus. The Two Masters has a healthy Beevers Master show up on Tersurus where the Macqueen Master shoots him. If there was a change in the timeline, it has to be before the Macqueen Master went back. At a guess I'd say in the original timeline the old Master goes to Tersurus, leaves and then goes through Legacy-maybe the reason his TARDIS goes back at the end is Susan leant on the fast return switch? Then in the new timeline he gets cooked on his first visit so Legacy never happens. Is Legacy completely definitive about it being the Delagdo Master? As we don't have any idea what pre-crusty Beevers looked like, could it be him instead? I can't remember if they definitely stated that it was the same incarnation that was in all the Third Doctor episodes, but it was pretty clearly meant to be him.
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Post by doctorkernow on Jan 9, 2017 22:30:15 GMT
Hello again. I started reading the BBC EDAs by accident. I ignored them completely for years because I was very cross with the Beeb for taking back the book licence from Virgin.
I felt that the Beeb had been happy for Virgin to keep the flame going while there was no TV version but as soon as new TV Who appears its licence is unceremoniously revoked.
Now of course this is obviously RIDICULOUS!
The books I have really enjoyed include the Lance Parkin book, Father Time, which I loved. It is one of the handful of EDAs that I own. Kate Orman's beautiful Year of the Intelligent Tigers, this was an interesting read. A convincing world is created full of giant cats.
I loved Fitz, and was a bit scared by Compassion. A human TARDIS? What? That's just too weird...
The Gallifrey Chronicles was a fascinating read even though I didn't get all the references. Marnal is a well-crafted character who I enjoyed reading about.
Finally, there is Mad Dogs and Englishmen by Paul Magrs for all out total farcical weirdness and the campest bright pink book cover ever.
Overall, I found most of the EDA books I encountered in libraries and charity shops rather heavy going and for me not particularly enjoyable.
That said, at least like Dr. 7 before him Dr 8's adventures continued in print after his all too short appearance on my black and white TV in May 1996.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 9, 2017 22:41:50 GMT
One of the things I've really been enjoying about the EDA's is the more fantastical tone to the stories and the absence (for the most part) of returning characters or aliens from the Classic Series, they very much feel like their own era, if you renamed the Doctor and tweaked his backstory and the apperance of the Tardis some of the books scarcely resemble TV Who at all, which is a very good thing i.m.o.
I'm generally not a person to waffle on in great detail about why I dislike or like a product, but as I wrote as few months ago in a different thread:
It was also interesting to note the 8th Doctor's companions meeting horrible fates predated the audios by several years...
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Post by constonks on Jan 15, 2017 19:37:11 GMT
I've only read the first seven and Legacy of the Daleks but I own a whole lot of them I've yet to get to. So far I'd probably rank em: - Vampire Science - Alien Bodies - Kursaal - Genocide - Legacy of the Daleks - The Eight Doctors - The Bodysnatchers - War of the Daleks I didn't hate any of them, although the last two on that list were a bit of a slog at times. They all have their moments though. Just finished Option Lock. I'd probably slot it just above Kursaal - it had me flipping back to the beginning a lot to see how everything lined up and the mystery kept me moving. I found I was almost always about ten pages ahead of the Doctor's reveals - as any good mystery should allow you to be! Solid Justin Richards fare.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 18, 2017 22:05:53 GMT
I was looking at Phillip Sandifer's blog earlier (he has a number of interesting reviews/essays on various EDA's and BF stories), but this old review of The Stones of Venice was quite interesting, he points out how the 8th Doctor of the novels differs to the character McGann plays in the audios: www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/i-can-swim-the-stones-of-venice/Would you agree that the Novel 8th Doctor (at least pre Storm Warning) and the BF Doctor are quite different? How did the two lines influence each other?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 23:54:33 GMT
I was looking at Phillip Sandifer's blog earlier (he has a number of interesting reviews/essays on various EDA's and BF stories), but this old review of The Stones of Venice was quite interesting, he points out how the 8th Doctor of the novels differs to the character McGann plays in the audios: www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/i-can-swim-the-stones-of-venice/Would you agree that the Novel 8th Doctor (at least pre Storm Warning) and the BF Doctor are quite different? How did the two lines influence each other? Snarky vs. earnest definitely covers it. I think it's down to Alan Barnes's influence, but I see BF!Eight as being much closer to his DWM counterpart than the one we see in the novels. There's a much broader air of magical realism (and indeed just magic) to the interpretation we see in the EDAs, whereas his audible self feels a bit closer to those science fiction tropes carried proudly through the nineties into the early millennium before NuWho. The two interpretations don't really mingle together until roughly the Divergent Universe arc when you get authors like Lloyd Rose popping in with their rendition of the character and it feels fundamentally odd to hear McGann bouncing up and down with enthusiasm (per Caerdroia) even though we've read this in the novels. When the Doctor is obstructed by an MI6 agent in The Flood, he sarcastically thanks him for giving him an excuse to crack his neck and escape, something that I think would have been frankly unthinkable for EDA!Eight. His palpable anger in Blood of the Daleks feels as though it borrows from the man we'd see get his home taken away from him. It's difficult to make comparisons because you can split the novels into two eras which are divided between The Ancestor Cell. One has a Doctor who has been shaped by the buzz of the TV Movie and the other that has been shaped in part by McGann on audio, but also by a desire to get back to basics with making him wiser and more temperamental. One is giddy with the possibilities, the other is reservedly Byronesque in his passion. Both have similar characteristics, but are expressed in completely different ways.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 22, 2017 19:28:19 GMT
I was looking at Phillip Sandifer's blog earlier (he has a number of interesting reviews/essays on various EDA's and BF stories), but this old review of The Stones of Venice was quite interesting, he points out how the 8th Doctor of the novels differs to the character McGann plays in the audios: www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/i-can-swim-the-stones-of-venice/Would you agree that the Novel 8th Doctor (at least pre Storm Warning) and the BF Doctor are quite different? How did the two lines influence each other? Snarky vs. earnest definitely covers it. I think it's down to Alan Barnes's influence, but I see BF!Eight as being much closer to his DWM counterpart than the one we see in the novels. There's a much broader air of magical realism (and indeed just magic) to the interpretation we see in the EDAs, whereas his audible self feels a bit closer to those science fiction tropes carried proudly through the nineties into the early millennium before NuWho. The two interpretations don't really mingle together until roughly the Divergent Universe arc when you get authors like Lloyd Rose popping in with their rendition of the character and it feels fundamentally odd to hear McGann bouncing up and down with enthusiasm (per Caerdroia) even though we've read this in the novels. When the Doctor is obstructed by an MI6 agent in The Flood, he sarcastically thanks him for giving him an excuse to crack his neck and escape, something that I think would have been frankly unthinkable for EDA!Eight. His palpable anger in Blood of the Daleks feels as though it borrows from the man we'd see get his home taken away from him. It's difficult to make comparisons because you can split the novels into two eras which are divided between The Ancestor Cell. One has a Doctor who has been shaped by the buzz of the TV Movie and the other that has been shaped in part by McGann on audio, but also by a desire to get back to basics with making him wiser and more temperamental. One is giddy with the possibilities, the other is reservedly Byronesque in his passion. Both have similar characteristics, but are expressed in completely different ways. I haven't read the comics but I agree with you on the other points, post Ancestor Cell EDA 8 acts and sounds much closer to the audio version i.m.o though whether that's simply the writers using the century on earth to harden the Doctor, or the influence of the comics/audios on the novels is harder to say. The four stories in The Company Of Friends show these subtle and not so subtle changes quite well...
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 27, 2017 19:04:11 GMT
I'm about 50 pages into The Adventuress Of Henrietta Street...really not sure what to make of it so far, as with Miles previous three EDA's it's a very unusual story, with strong prose but it doesn't really feel like Who...
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Post by Ela on Jan 29, 2017 18:48:10 GMT
I'm about 50 pages into The Adventuress Of Henrietta Street...really not sure what to make of it so far, as with Miles previous three EDA's it's a very unusual story, with strong prose but it doesn't really feel like Who... I found it very strange. Not a fan. Actually, I'm not a fan of Miles' Doctor Who stuff in general, at least what I've read of it. Plots too convoluted, weird, and "out there" for me.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 29, 2017 21:25:24 GMT
I'm about 50 pages into The Adventuress Of Henrietta Street...really not sure what to make of it so far, as with Miles previous three EDA's it's a very unusual story, with strong prose but it doesn't really feel like Who... I found it very strange. Not a fan. Actually, I'm not a fan of Miles' Doctor Who stuff in general, at least what I've read of it. Plots too convoluted, weird, and "out there" for me. I only know his work from the EDA's, and yes weird and ''out there'' certainly describes it, I thought Alien Bodies was at many points a stunning book, strong prose, lots of great imagery (which Moffat seems heavily inspired by...) and a very inventive storyline at its heart...but it felt less like a Who story than a story he wrote for own enjoyment and transplanted Who characters into, Interference took this further and further what was inventive and interesting in A.B became convoluted and self indulgent for all the interesting concepts and twists Miles added to the Whoniverse for me at least, it often felt like he wasn't really interested in it and was only using as a license to explore his own concepts and fan biases, it's all very well creating new vistas and concepts but you need to focus on the characters guiding us through them. People slate War Of The Daleks and The Eight Doctors, perhaps fairly, but at least those writers knew their limits and didn't take themselves too seriously. I can certainly see why he is held in great esteem by many Wilderness years fans, and his influence can be seen across the EDA's and even New Who, but as much as I admire his talent as a writer his idea of Who is not one that really match my own. Not really a fan of the Faction Paradox stuff either, interesting idea but really convoluted.
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Post by Ela on Jan 29, 2017 22:47:58 GMT
...but it felt less like a Who story than a story he wrote for own enjoyment and transplanted Who characters into, Interference took this further and further what was inventive and interesting in A.B became convoluted and self indulgent for all the interesting concepts and twists Miles added to the Whoniverse for me at least, it often felt like he wasn't really interested in it and was only using as a license to explore his own concepts and fan biases, it's all very well creating new vistas and concepts but you need to focus on the characters guiding us through them. That's an interesting observation. Sounds plausible to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 7:49:47 GMT
I found it very strange. Not a fan. Actually, I'm not a fan of Miles' Doctor Who stuff in general, at least what I've read of it. Plots too convoluted, weird, and "out there" for me. I only know his work from the EDA's, and yes weird and ''out there'' certainly describes it, I thought Alien Bodies was at many points a stunning book, strong prose, lots of great imagery (which Moffat seems heavily inspired by...) and a very inventive storyline at its heart...but it felt less like a Who story than a story he wrote for own enjoyment and transplanted Who characters into, Interference took this further and further what was inventive and interesting in A.B became convoluted and self indulgent for all the interesting concepts and twists Miles added to the Whoniverse for me at least, it often felt like he wasn't really interested in it and was only using as a license to explore his own concepts and fan biases, it's all very well creating new vistas and concepts but you need to focus on the characters guiding us through them. People slate War Of The Daleks and The Eight Doctors, perhaps fairly, but at least those writers knew their limits and didn't take themselves too seriously. I can certainly see why he is held in great esteem by many Wilderness years fans, and his influence can be seen across the EDA's and even New Who, but as much as I admire his talent as a writer his idea of Who is not one that really match my own. Not really a fan of the Faction Paradox stuff either, interesting idea but really convoluted. Interference was very clunky, but I rather enjoyed Miles's Alien Bodies, Dead Romance and The Adolescence of Time. The first of that trio feels like the kind of story that Ben Aaronovitch's Transit was, something that people at the time derided for being an independent story with Doctor Who characters stapled on. In reality, I don't think you could have told it without those trappings from the show and it really couldn't have been told any other way. Ironically, I'm glad the Faction Paradox line evolved into its own entity, it remains for me the definitive approach to exploring the events of a time-active war through a variety of differing mediums. The True History of Faction Paradox is a glorious exploration into the Osirian Court politics that lead up to Pyramids of Mars (following Cousins Justine and Eliza from the destruction of the Eleven Day Empire) and Lance Parkin's Warlords of Utopia is marvellous for taking two parallel universe clichés -- "What if Rome never fell?" and "What if Nazi Germany won the Second World War?" -- and pitting them against one another with his viewpoint character stuck in the middle. The sad thing about The Eight Doctors is that I rather like Terrance Dicks's previous work. Shakedown is one of my favourites because it's so fun and Exodus has an indelibly smart characterisation of the more moody Seventh Doctor of Season 26. He was unfortunately just one of those writers who didn't think very much of the TV Movie at all. I'd have liked to have seen him take it a bit more seriously and give us a story closer to those earlier efforts. Alan Barnes managed to get around the problem of characterisation by having the DWM version of him act a little bit like a cross between his first three incarnations. A bit of Hartnell here, a bit of Troughton there, a bit of Pertwee there and the results aren't all that bad. Very close to what we'd see a little while later in Big Finish.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Feb 8, 2017 23:05:23 GMT
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 17, 2017 9:02:51 GMT
Thinking about Adventuress and the black heart business: The gist, filtered through an 18th century view of the world, is that the Doctor's second heart was killing him because it was linking him to a destroyed Gallifrey. All in all, it makes sense - Time Lords are less biology and more complex space-time events after all - but Sabbath then puts that heart into his own chest, which apprently means he can time travel now. It's tied into his biology, so shouldn't it be killing him now to? Shouldn't it be trying to link Sabbath to Gallifrey now? It does give him some biological upgrades after all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 14:16:22 GMT
Thinking about Adventuress and the black heart business: The gist, filtered through an 18th century view of the world, is that the Doctor's second heart was killing him because it was linking him to a destroyed Gallifrey. All in all, it makes sense - Time Lords are less biology and more complex space-time events after all - but Sabbath then puts that heart into his own chest, which apprently means he can time travel now. It's tied into his biology, so shouldn't it be killing him now to? Shouldn't it be trying to link Sabbath to Gallifrey now? It does give him some biological upgrades after all. That immunity could have possibly been a boon bestowed upon him by the Council of Eight. They were trying to usurp the mantle of time, so maybe they had either means or opportunity to prevent Sabbath from perishing in such a way.
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