Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 22:30:55 GMT
The Sixth Doctor has three regeneration stories two are novels with Times Champion while the other is a BBC novel Spiral Scratch & the third being The Brink Of Death which is the final story in The Last Adventure box set.
So which do you prefer & why?, would you have liked Big Finish adaptions of Times Champion or Spiral Scratch & did The Brink Of Death exceed or disappoint your expectations.
I personally loved The Brink Of Death which i thought a fitting end to the Sixth Doctor's era but each too there own.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jan 3, 2017 22:47:05 GMT
Brink OF Death because Colin actually performs it Time's Champion was the better book IMO, but possibly a bit too mature for a general audience. Spiral Scratch I never like Multi-verse Theories/stories Regards mark687
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 23:16:44 GMT
Brink OF Death because Colin actually performs it ^ This ^ Brink of Death was a good way for the 6th Doctor to bow out, with Colin getting to do the regeneration. Plus, it was an enjoyable story. The other two stories never did much for me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 23:59:39 GMT
Brink of Death is really important for giving Colin that final adventure and Big Finish a legitimate regeneration story. I'm not going to understate how authoritative that must be to a great deal many people. However, Time's Champion was the one that got to me first and at such a point in being a Doctor Who fan that things like where the Valeyard came from and what exactly was going on in the NAs were at their peak for me personally. I was shoulder deep in the first hundred Big Finish stories, Sixy was front and centre and I was prowling around after The Juggernauts looking for other Six/Mel stories. There's a lot I take away from it as a story. An unconventional invasion of Gallifrey by the Cybermen, the machinations of the Chaplain and Madam Clacice, a war in the Six-Fold Realm, a meeting of minds with the Doctor's final incarnation, but what wins me over more than anything else is that first confrontation with the Valeyard. Much like his contemplation of suicide at the end of Killing Ground, this speaks mountains of why the Sixth Doctor is such an incredible man -- "The fact is that I was afraid of you in the days and years following my trial, afraid of what I'd seen you do and how that reflected on me. I was disappointed, ashamed with myself over the possibility that there was enough evil seeded throughout my lives to give rise to something so abhorrent as you, especially when I realised how much of that aberration seemed evident in my own life. But then I remembered who I was. Then things started to change for me. I resumed my travels; I took on new companions, who strengthened and inspired me, and I sought out the evils in the universe and fought them once more. I enjoyed myself again. But above all that, there was one thing in my mind which kept pushing me forward, one person always before me in my mind's eye which motivated me to be a little better, to be a little kinder, a little quieter, a little more myself. It was you, Valeyard. You, the very antithesis of my self, became the source of my redemption. You have made me more of who I am, and I am better for it. Do I fear you? No. For meeting you then and here today, I thank you. You have made me the Doctor." We all have that shadow aspect in ourselves that we reject and the Valeyard is the Doctor's own monster from the id -- a reflection of everything that he suppresses made grotesquely manifest by forces beyond his control. For us humans, we either conquer it or it ultimately destroys us and it's something of an irony that it is the Valeyard's inability to accept the flaws of his own character that ultimately leads to his downfall. Does the Doctor suffer the same fate as his shadow? Well... At the end of the road, in the twilight of his life, the Sixth Doctor finally comes to accept who he is. That he is capable of untold darkness, of evil ambition unchaste by morality, but it is not all who he is. He is responsible for his own moral character. He is the Doctor and he chooses to do good. The Valeyard rejects the Doctor as part of himself and suffers the consequences of his actions. The Doctor accepts the Valeyard as part of himself and attains his own personal enlightenment.
|
|
|
Post by elkawho on Jan 4, 2017 3:33:13 GMT
I've never read the book but I love your description of it @wolfie53
|
|
|
Post by sailorhaumea on Jan 4, 2017 3:47:17 GMT
I consider all three to have "happened". At the end of Champion, the Doctor overwrites the book's events with those of Spiral Scratch. Presumably, Brink of Death and Scratch are simultaneous, given that he at one point says something that occurs in both stories. The timeline's all jumbled up, and finally resolves itself when the Doctor hits his head on the console. He remembers all three incidents as having happened, while the Valeyard from the present of Time's Champion continues onward, destined to become trapped in the Matrix forever in The Brink of Death.
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Jan 4, 2017 6:18:31 GMT
I figure Spiral Scratch is the original timeline and the Valeyard averted it by infecting the TARDIS in The Brink of Death. Of course it still happened out there in the multiverse.
I liked both though SS was one of my favourite DW books so when The Last Adventure was announced I was a bit miffed. Luckily it was well-made (as lbh it was always going to be).
As for Time's Champion, there's enough official Doctor Who to get through that I've not have time for a lot of fan stuff. I don't really count non-licensed work but if you want to slot it in, I understand it makes it easy, given that it makes Spiral Scratch an alternate timeline experienced by Mel.
|
|
|
Post by icecreamdf on Jan 4, 2017 7:04:30 GMT
Since versions of the Sixth Doctor with Evelyn showed up in Spiral scratch, I assume that the novels and audios mostly take place in different universes. Spiral Scratch happenned in one universe (well, a bunch of universes) and Brink of Death happenned in another.
|
|
|
Post by CookieMaster on Jan 4, 2017 7:55:20 GMT
'The Brink of Death' for me, it was nice for Colin to be involved this time round and as far as i know he was happy with the result.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 4, 2017 10:18:19 GMT
I consider all three to have "happened". At the end of Champion, the Doctor overwrites the book's events with those of Spiral Scratch. Presumably, Brink of Death and Scratch are simultaneous, given that he at one point says something that occurs in both stories. The timeline's all jumbled up, and finally resolves itself when the Doctor hits his head on the console. He remembers all three incidents as having happened, while the Valeyard from the present of Time's Champion continues onward, destined to become trapped in the Matrix forever in The Brink of Death. Another possible is-Time's Champion timeline happens but then the Doctor overwrites it with Spiral Scratch to save Mel. However the Valeyard's meddling in the Last Adventure results in The Brink of Death happening (As he's from the future any of his meddling changes time a bit presumably) overwriting both of them. Therefore they all still 'happened', but only one stands-if that make any sense. Maybe the Doctor can remember all three, maybe that explains some of his behaviour in Time and the Rani, his brain's still trying to process this temporal mess.
|
|
|
Post by sailorhaumea on Jan 4, 2017 10:26:07 GMT
I consider all three to have "happened". At the end of Champion, the Doctor overwrites the book's events with those of Spiral Scratch. Presumably, Brink of Death and Scratch are simultaneous, given that he at one point says something that occurs in both stories. The timeline's all jumbled up, and finally resolves itself when the Doctor hits his head on the console. He remembers all three incidents as having happened, while the Valeyard from the present of Time's Champion continues onward, destined to become trapped in the Matrix forever in The Brink of Death. Another possible is-Time's Champion timeline happens but then the Doctor overwrites it with Spiral Scratch to save Mel. However the Valeyard's meddling in the Last Adventure results in The Brink of Death happening (As he's from the future any of his meddling changes time a bit presumably) overwriting both of them. Therefore they all still 'happened', but only one stands-if that make any sense. Maybe the Doctor can remember all three, maybe that explains some of his behaviour in Time and the Rani, his brain's still trying to process this temporal mess. Headcanon accepted!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 12:33:53 GMT
I consider all three to have "happened". At the end of Champion, the Doctor overwrites the book's events with those of Spiral Scratch. Presumably, Brink of Death and Scratch are simultaneous, given that he at one point says something that occurs in both stories. The timeline's all jumbled up, and finally resolves itself when the Doctor hits his head on the console. He remembers all three incidents as having happened, while the Valeyard from the present of Time's Champion continues onward, destined to become trapped in the Matrix forever in The Brink of Death. Another possible is-Time's Champion timeline happens but then the Doctor overwrites it with Spiral Scratch to save Mel. However the Valeyard's meddling in the Last Adventure results in The Brink of Death happening (As he's from the future any of his meddling changes time a bit presumably) overwriting both of them. Therefore they all still 'happened', but only one stands-if that make any sense. Maybe the Doctor can remember all three, maybe that explains some of his behaviour in Time and the Rani, his brain's still trying to process this temporal mess. I'm not sure if it was here on Divergent or if it was back on the old Big Finish forums, but someone posited the possibility that The Brink of Death is the final chapter of Spiral Scratch being told from the Doctor's perspective rather than Mel's. Similar to the idea of "Winter" from Circular Time occurring at the same time as The Caves of Androzani. I find it kind of poetic that for an incarnation whose life was supposedly cut short by his successor, it took no less than three separate attempts to finally bring him down.
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Jan 4, 2017 20:10:42 GMT
Another possible is-Time's Champion timeline happens but then the Doctor overwrites it with Spiral Scratch to save Mel. However the Valeyard's meddling in the Last Adventure results in The Brink of Death happening (As he's from the future any of his meddling changes time a bit presumably) overwriting both of them. Therefore they all still 'happened', but only one stands-if that make any sense. Maybe the Doctor can remember all three, maybe that explains some of his behaviour in Time and the Rani, his brain's still trying to process this temporal mess. I'm not sure if it was here on Divergent or if it was back on the old Big Finish forums, but someone posited the possibility that The Brink of Death is the final chapter of Spiral Scratch being told from the Doctor's perspective rather than Mel's. Similar to the idea of "Winter" from Circular Time occurring at the same time as The Caves of Androzani. I find it kind of poetic that for an incarnation whose life was supposedly cut short by his successor, it took no less than three separate attempts to finally bring him down. The problem with that is that Spiral Scratch and The Brink of Death aren't really compatible as two sides of the same coin. The Doctor and Mel are together for all of Spiral Scratch, and the Valeyard and Mel are together for all of The Brink of Death. It's not like Winter and Caves or The Tenth Planet and The Locked Room or The Face of the Enemy and The Curse of Peladon or... gosh Doctor Who has done this trick a few times, hasn't it? I definitely like "The Valeyard rewrote time" idea more. Had he not interfered, the Doctor would have gone to the planet he was aiming for in The Brink of Death, followed by the planets mentioned in Spiral Scratch. As the Valeyard interfered, he "skipped" Spiral Scratch as it were and replaced it with another adventure.
|
|
|
Post by ulyssessarcher on Jan 4, 2017 20:20:07 GMT
Ole sixie sure does die a lot...wonder what's causing that?
|
|
aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849
|
Post by aztec on Jan 4, 2017 20:28:21 GMT
Ole sixie sure does die a lot...wonder what's causing that? The other timelords are jealous of his coat and conspire to muck around with the web of time out of spite that he has so much better fashion sense. (Joking aside.... I do actually like Sixie's coat...)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 21:28:23 GMT
Ole sixie sure does die a lot...wonder what's causing that? The other timelords are jealous of his coat and conspire to muck around with the web of time out of spite that he has so much better fashion sense. (Joking aside.... I do actually like Sixie's coat...)Mee Too!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 1:30:28 GMT
The other timelords are jealous of his coat and conspire to muck around with the web of time out of spite that he has so much better fashion sense. (Joking aside.... I do actually like Sixie's coat...)Mee Too!!! Me three, I love the variety of colour we got over the years. Everything from the palette swap for The Ultimate Adventure to his very dignified "mourning suit".
|
|
|
Post by ulyssessarcher on Jan 5, 2017 7:25:31 GMT
Well, at least I'm not the only one without a fashion sense...
|
|
|
Post by barnabaslives on Jan 5, 2017 7:57:01 GMT
Colin is absolutely amazing that he can wear that coat and be absolutely 100% dignified nonetheless - now that is mojo! God only knows how anyone else would look in that get-up and yet he wears it as naturally as a tree wears a leaf. I can barely imagine him without that coat.
|
|
|
Post by icecreamdf on Jan 5, 2017 8:38:29 GMT
God only knows how anyone else would look in that get-up I hope they put Osgood in the coat someday.
|
|