Worst Thing about Classic Who

Quite often, but they didn't then soapbox about how the fact they were captured alive proves a moral case of how the bad guys are actually merciful and so everyone should surrender to them and expect the same treatment, and if they don't then they're warmongering bigots.

Minor contrivances like that can be forgiven if the story at least tries to work cleverly with or around them, or at least goes some way to drawing the audience's good will, or rather making it feel that the hero's survival has been earned in general. Warriors of the Deep does completely the opposite of that.

Thanks for that, that's actually news to me. I'm not sure how much of that news could have found its way to me in the US when those aired, and I don't remember seeing it before when trying to figure out what the hell they were thinking back there. It's good to consider now, because I think the Seventh Doctor era is finally starting to make more sense to me (especially the parts I like to complain about) - or at least as much as it's going to, since Grade's comments don't make much sense in the first place. I don't suppose I should try to wrestle with his stale points, but they're pretty remarkable - as if there were anything very child-friendly about Dalek extermination other than that one could temper the violence of it by dwelling on a certain Dalek resemblance to dustbins or spice shakers.

Likewise, I did find some of Sylvester's comments about The Happiness Patrol recently or I'd otherwise never have guessed that the social commentary of that story might have been aimed at anyone in particular. I may still cringe while watching it, but at least I think I'm beginning to get some understanding of why the story doesn't go the way I'd want it to, and that maybe I should be glad it doesn't. Curiously, I think that's next up in strict order on my viewing list - I may still skip it as planned, but at least I'm having second thoughts about skipping it, which is for me a whole new level of appreciation for it. :-)

I'll tell you what I think has really helped change my opinion of Paradise Towers somewhat, is BF's brilliant Spaceport Fear audio, where a lot of what I don't like about Paradise Towers is elevated to a delightful artform. Suddenly I wanted to nominate Spaceport Fear for the "Bin Liner Award" and for the first time I meant that expression in a good way. :-)

The English-speaking world reacts to the English-speaking world, I feel. Cultural differences are such that people probably feel more comfortable trying to mend their own backyard rather than interfere in someone else's, even if they do have the same problems. The media is also a factor when judging these sorts of things, here in Australia there was a curious blackout when the protests were going on and we found out a couple days afterward that they'd been going on.

Honestly, I thought most of the misanthropy stemmed from a growing sense of frustration in the Doctor that there is only a violent solution to this particular crisis. He desperately wants a solution that's been denied to him for so long and unfortunately, I think he's so blinded by his characteristic idealism here that he's trying to force an outcome he probably knows deep down isn't going to happen. Preston's attempt to shoot down the Sea Devil leader kind of proves my point about how grey the entire situation is and I think it's her death that compels him to go through with using the hexochromite gas.

Given that it liquefies the respiratory systems of reptilian life, that strikes me as basically using the equivalent of Agent Orange on a human detachment. Not something to be taken lightly. Also, if there'd been a puncture in seabase for any reason, the gas would have likely contaminated the surrounding marine life including what could potentially be the Silurian city out there, people who may have no idea what's going on.

He's also dressed as a reactor technician and given that the Silurians have just captured that room, I suspect they'd want a complicit human to monitor the situation down there once the fighting has died down. Always good to have a spare. I return to my "lashing out because of frustration" argument, he's under a lot of pressure here. You can see it when he convinces Vorshak to go along with the Silurians, he's searching for a reasonable solution to avoid another senseless waste of life.

Johnny Byrne scripts and I typically don't get on because I find them a bit repetitive, but it would have been fascinating to see what the double-length original scripts would have looked like. You'd have needed a particularly clever director to ensure that there wasn't too much budget being thrown at the wall, but if you redressed the sets and used different lighting for the bunker and Seabase I think you could have gotten away with it. It might have worked a great deal better in some respects had the story been tightened up to six parts instead of the requisite four we see here. The Keeper of Traken was nice, but Arc of Infinity didn't particularly inspire confidence and the crushingly slow pace of Space: 1999 is something I don't really want to repeat. I'm not that bothered by the potential misanthropy of it all myself, it's a pretty standard approach for darker science fiction. Humans can be pretty nasty creatures.

Phew. This has been a fascinating discussion. Largely irreconcilable, but fascinating nonetheless.

I'd agree with 50% of that statement ...  

Can I put in a good word for 'The Web Planet' please?

I read the novelisation 40 years ago and really enjoyed its alien quality – but the TV story had such a poor reputation that I’d never watched it until last year. My mistake! The style and realisation were far better than I ever imagined, as ‘Doctor Who and the Zarbi’ came to life before my (non-multi-faceted) eyes. I thought it was astonishingly daring, utterly alien and possibly alienating - but unique and I loved it! The Menoptera are a splendid creation – and sometimes, magnificently, they actually fly! (Which I never imagined they would really have done on TV, when I read the novel.)

The strange beings, the stylised language and movement, the total, absolute 'alienness' of it all, culminating in the way the Optera speak (almost incredibly) in metaphors. This is beyond daring for a ‘teatime’ show, either mad or brilliant depending on your view. They would never try to do it again quite like this, but apart from one or two production moments (caused by lack of time and money for reshoots) and The Animus in the final episode (where the body does not live up to the excellent voice), I think it works wonderfully.

In my opinion, author Bill Strutton, producer Verity Lambert, director Richard Martin and their team created a truly unique classic of early ‘Doctor Who’ and (as Prapillus the wise old Menoptera says of the TARDIS crew) “Their deeds shall be sung in the Temples of Light” – they will be by me anyway!

The tree from Mark of the Rani.

Sure. I have a couple of qualms about it but they're really no big deal. In fact, I didn't watch more than 15 minutes of it before saving it for later and not getting back to it yet, so I don't have very much business ripping on an episode I haven't ever seen. I'll probably enjoy it plenty when I get to it. You definitely make it sound like I will!

It was a horrible moment when I became humiliated to admit being a Doctor Who fan. It might have been a good idea, bit in execution was so bad it should never have made the final edit.

The only thing that bothered me in Warriors was the myka standing on a jabolite door. Twin Dilemma was the beginning of a slippery slope but that tree killed me off.