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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 11:45:24 GMT
Easy one... the TV Movie is from the TV Movie era! It is rather... unique, isn't it! But I would always place The TV Movie in the classic era because Paul McGann's excellent Eighth Doctor is the last of the classic Doctors. Perhaps his later BF stories (the 8DAs, I haven't heard any of the box sets yet) do form a sort of bridge towards the new series, thinking of the companions and some of the pacing, but he began with Charley and Mary in the Monthly Range and that is the original BF home of the classic Doctors. I'm really tempted to believe that the first stories of the New Series, everything attempted from Blood of the Daleks onwards. It's a last final hurrah to a particular flavour of era before pushing on towards the post-2005 tone of the show. That said, I do think you can split the Wilderness Years straight down the middle with the TV Movie. There was a huge shift in emphasis after it came out, Doctor Who kind of drifted away from trying to do science fiction like Herbert, LeGuin, Asimov and closer towards something with a greater emphasis on terrestrial science fantasy. At the risk of making a cat's cradle, you could argue that there's: Classic Series -> pre-TVM era (reacting against the classic series) -> post-TVM era (reacting against the TVM) -> NuWho (reacting against the Wilderness years as a whole)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 15:05:33 GMT
Easy one... the TV Movie is from the TV Movie era! It is rather... unique, isn't it! But I would always place The TV Movie in the classic era because Paul McGann's excellent Eighth Doctor is the last of the classic Doctors. Perhaps his later BF stories (the 8DAs, I haven't heard any of the box sets yet) do form a sort of bridge towards the new series, thinking of the companions and some of the pacing, but he began with Charley and Mary in the Monthly Range and that is the original BF home of the classic Doctors. Because of what Big Finish have done with the Eighth Doctor, his stories cross both era's for me. The way I look at it is, the main range put the Eighth Doctor in the classic era, the 8DA's then pushed the Eighth Doctor towards the new series era, while Dark Eyes/DC have put him in to the new series era. (As did Night of the Doctor obviously. ) Survival finished one run of Doctor Who on the TV and Rose started another, but the TV Movie is unique in style to both of those eras of Doctor Who... so I just put the TV Movie in to its own slot. The easiest thing to do though is just say it's all Doctor Who, with the different production/story-telling styles recognising the way that TV has changed over the years.
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Post by Bazoolium on Sept 8, 2017 17:57:51 GMT
When it's bad it's bad for hours, at least the new series is only terrible 45 minutes at a time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 21:22:20 GMT
When it's bad it's bad for hours, at least the new series is only terrible 45 minutes at a time. Hours? Most episodes from 'my era' of watching Doctor Who were only 25 minutes long, so if you didn't like them then you only had 25 minutes to suffer at a time. Doctor Who wasn't made to be watched for hours at a time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 8:29:39 GMT
When it's bad it's bad for hours, at least the new series is only terrible 45 minutes at a time. Hours? Most episodes from 'my era' of watching Doctor Who were only 25 minutes long, so if you didn't like them then you only had 25 minutes to suffer at a time. Doctor Who wasn't made to be watched for hours at a time. Although it can be. The omnibus version of The Talons of Weng-Chiang is gorgeous and watching The Power of the Daleks in a theatre was wonderful.
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Post by number13 on Sept 9, 2017 10:31:00 GMT
Hours? Most episodes from 'my era' of watching Doctor Who were only 25 minutes long, so if you didn't like them then you only had 25 minutes to suffer at a time. Doctor Who wasn't made to be watched for hours at a time. Although it can be. The omnibus version of The Talons of Weng-Chiang is gorgeous and watching The Power of the Daleks in a theatre was wonderful. When I was a very young fan, the rare omnibus editions were virtually the only 'Doctor Who' repeats we ever got - and they never seemed a second too long to me! I clearly remember 'Planet of the Spiders' one Christmas (1974 probably) and (because I think Barry Letts was very rightly proud of what they had achieved) we got 'The Sea Devils' twice in the summer holidays, and I think it was uncut. Hours of my Doctor in full flow, magnificent! A few years later they definitely showed 'Pyramids of Mars' as an omnibus and I think it might even be better in one sitting - quite relentless how the tension builds up to the fabulous meeting with Sutekh, slight wobble thereafter but a brilliant ending.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 10:37:53 GMT
Although it can be. The omnibus version of The Talons of Weng-Chiang is gorgeous and watching The Power of the Daleks in a theatre was wonderful. When I was a very young fan, the rare omnibus editions were virtually the only 'Doctor Who' repeats we ever got - and they never seemed a second too long to me! I clearly remember 'Planet of the Spiders' one Christmas (1974 probably) and (because I think Barry Letts was very rightly proud of what they had achieved) we got 'The Sea Devils' twice in the summer holidays, and I think it was uncut. Hours of my Doctor in full flow, magnificent! A few years later they definitely showed 'Pyramids of Mars' as an omnibus and I think it might even be better in one sitting - quite relentless how the tension builds up to the fabulous meeting with Sutekh, slight wobble thereafter but a brilliant ending. I watched taped reruns of The Daleks in full flow from the second episode to the very last in one full sitting, didn't wait for The Edge of Destruction either. The classic series certainly wasn't constructed for binge viewing like modern shows, but there are a lot of stories that worked rather well as de facto films regardless. The early Hartnell stories were structured very much like chapters in a novel.
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Post by Bazoolium on Sept 9, 2017 18:09:43 GMT
When I was a very young fan, the rare omnibus editions were virtually the only 'Doctor Who' repeats we ever got - and they never seemed a second too long to me! I clearly remember 'Planet of the Spiders' one Christmas (1974 probably) and (because I think Barry Letts was very rightly proud of what they had achieved) we got 'The Sea Devils' twice in the summer holidays, and I think it was uncut. Hours of my Doctor in full flow, magnificent! A few years later they definitely showed 'Pyramids of Mars' as an omnibus and I think it might even be better in one sitting - quite relentless how the tension builds up to the fabulous meeting with Sutekh, slight wobble thereafter but a brilliant ending. I watched taped reruns of The Daleks in full flow from the second episode to the very last in one full sitting, didn't wait for The Edge of Destruction either. The classic series certainly wasn't constructed for binge viewing like modern shows, but there are a lot of stories that worked rather well as de facto films regardless. The early Hartnell stories were structured very much like chapters in a novel. There is a difference between being made for weekly viewing and not having anything happen. There are amazing moments in Ambassadors of Death, but they are interposed with endless faffing about. How many times was that space centre broken in to?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 1:53:53 GMT
I watched taped reruns of The Daleks in full flow from the second episode to the very last in one full sitting, didn't wait for The Edge of Destruction either. The classic series certainly wasn't constructed for binge viewing like modern shows, but there are a lot of stories that worked rather well as de facto films regardless. The early Hartnell stories were structured very much like chapters in a novel. There is a difference between being made for weekly viewing and not having anything happen. There are amazing moments in Ambassadors of Death, but they are interposed with endless faffing about. How many times was that space centre broken in to? Or out of! Those guards must be the most appalling security force on the planet. Putting my shameless plug for a four-part Ambassadors of Death out there, I will concede that there is a sizable number of those early stories that do have a lot of padding. Mind you, Malcolm Hulke stories do tend to be written as installments rather than chapters. Each episode is seen to stand on its own, while simultaneously being a part of a greater body of work.
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Post by Bazoolium on Sept 10, 2017 7:46:44 GMT
There is a difference between being made for weekly viewing and not having anything happen. There are amazing moments in Ambassadors of Death, but they are interposed with endless faffing about. How many times was that space centre broken in to? Or out of! Those guards must be the most appalling security force on the planet. Putting my shameless plug for a four-part Ambassadors of Death out there, I will concede that there is a sizable number of those early stories that do have a lot of padding. Mind you, Malcolm Hulke stories do tend to be written as installments rather than chapters. Each episode is seen to stand on its own, while simultaneously being a part of a greater body of work. Absolutely Also, The Invasion is very long, but also one of the best passed stories in the whole show.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 8:12:32 GMT
Or out of! Those guards must be the most appalling security force on the planet. Putting my shameless plug for a four-part Ambassadors of Death out there, I will concede that there is a sizable number of those early stories that do have a lot of padding. Mind you, Malcolm Hulke stories do tend to be written as installments rather than chapters. Each episode is seen to stand on its own, while simultaneously being a part of a greater body of work. Absolutely Also, The Invasion is very long, but also one of the best passed stories in the whole show. The Daleks' Master Plan (although I suppose nowadays it's closer to being two stories with a Christmas special in between) and The War Games (after the first three episodes) I think qualify too. Trial of a Time Lord... Not so much. I think the framing story spent too much time in one spot. That trial room. It's strange to say, but my first impression of Trial came from a photo diary made in the 1990s and memories of The Deadly Assassin. The very vague blurb and its accompanying photographs led me to believe that the Doctor escapes the trial room to Gallifrey, only to end up captured by the chancellery guard after trying to steal water from the servitors (an out-of-context Mysterious Planet photo). Peri meanwhile finds refuge with a pair of refugees (Yrcanos and Dorf) in the maintenance passages, the target of a conspiracy organised by the CIA. She's executed and the Doctor only manages to get away from the station's tractor beam by pushing his ship to its limits. When they try to snag him again, the beam cuts right through its defences and he's fatally wounded. Very different from what actually happened.
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Post by Whovitt on Sept 10, 2017 22:35:41 GMT
Absolutely Also, The Invasion is very long, but also one of the best passed stories in the whole show. The Daleks' Master Plan (although I suppose nowadays it's closer to being two stories with a Christmas special in between) and The War Games (after the first three episodes) I think qualify too. Trial of a Time Lord... Not so much. I think the framing story spent too much time in one spot. That trial room. It's strange to say, but my first impression of Trial came from a photo diary made in the 1990s and memories of The Deadly Assassin. The very vague blurb and its accompanying photographs led me to believe that the Doctor escapes the trial room to Gallifrey, only to end up captured by the chancellery guard after trying to steal water from the servitors (an out-of-context Mysterious Planet photo). Peri meanwhile finds refuge with a pair of refugees (Yrcanos and Dorf) in the maintenance passages, the target of a conspiracy organised by the CIA. She's executed and the Doctor only manages to get away from the station's tractor beam by pushing his ship to its limits. When they try to snag him again, the beam cuts right through its defences and he's fatally wounded. Very different from what actually happened. Please write this (if you haven't already)!
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 10, 2017 23:02:39 GMT
There is a difference between being made for weekly viewing and not having anything happen. There are amazing moments in Ambassadors of Death, but they are interposed with endless faffing about. How many times was that space centre broken in to? Or out of! Those guards must be the most appalling security force on the planet. WARNING: Do not play an Ambassadors of Death drinking game on this subject. DU takes no responsibility for the resulting hospitlization.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 1:14:52 GMT
Or out of! Those guards must be the most appalling security force on the planet. WARNING: Do not play an Ambassadors of Death drinking game on this subject. DU takes no responsibility for the resulting hospitlization. Nor the " Resurrection beer body count". Always have emergency services on speed dial folks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 1:32:13 GMT
The Daleks' Master Plan (although I suppose nowadays it's closer to being two stories with a Christmas special in between) and The War Games (after the first three episodes) I think qualify too. Trial of a Time Lord... Not so much. I think the framing story spent too much time in one spot. That trial room. It's strange to say, but my first impression of Trial came from a photo diary made in the 1990s and memories of The Deadly Assassin. The very vague blurb and its accompanying photographs led me to believe that the Doctor escapes the trial room to Gallifrey, only to end up captured by the chancellery guard after trying to steal water from the servitors (an out-of-context Mysterious Planet photo). Peri meanwhile finds refuge with a pair of refugees (Yrcanos and Dorf) in the maintenance passages, the target of a conspiracy organised by the CIA. She's executed and the Doctor only manages to get away from the station's tractor beam by pushing his ship to its limits. When they try to snag him again, the beam cuts right through its defences and he's fatally wounded. Very different from what actually happened. Please write this (if you haven't already)! I'll put it up on the list. Right after the Six/Peri/Frobisher novel I'm writing at the moment, an entry for Unbound Imaginings and a prequel to Timelash which I hope to do after. I'll get round to it. *thumbs up*
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Post by Whovitt on Sept 11, 2017 3:12:52 GMT
WARNING: Do not play an Ambassadors of Death drinking game on this subject. DU takes no responsibility for the resulting hospitlization. Nor the " Resurrection beer body count". Always have emergency services on speed dial folks. Add to that the " Frontier in Space gaol/cell scene count"!
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