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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 17:43:38 GMT
When the "Daleks rebuilt Skaro", that could mean either, a) the took another planet and rebuilt it in the image of Skaro, or b) they actually rebuilt Skaro from the debris left over. A sounds better, but sadly it's not expanded, or explained more. Either works, as the Daleks could easily do both. I don't see why any further explanation is needed. It's in a TV episode of Doctor Who; the Daleks rebuilt Skaro. So that - for me anyway - explains why Skaro exists.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 17:51:34 GMT
When the "Daleks rebuilt Skaro", that could mean either, a) the took another planet and rebuilt it in the image of Skaro, or b) they actually rebuilt Skaro from the debris left over. A sounds better, but sadly it's not expanded, or explained more. Either works, as the Daleks could easily do both. I don't see why any further explanation is needed. It's in a TV episode of Doctor Who; the Daleks rebuilt Skaro. So that - for me anyway - explains why Skaro exists. Absolutely. Why alienate the general audience who have no knowledge of the intricacies of Dalek plots from the preceding 27-odd years by spoonfeeding them with information that adds nothing to the story?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 0:06:33 GMT
When the "Daleks rebuilt Skaro", that could mean either, a) the took another planet and rebuilt it in the image of Skaro, or b) they actually rebuilt Skaro from the debris left over. A sounds better, but sadly it's not expanded, or explained more. Either works, as the Daleks could easily do both. I don't see why any further explanation is needed. It's in a TV episode of Doctor Who; the Daleks rebuilt Skaro. So that - for me anyway - explains why Skaro exists. And in the TV Movie, The Doctor's just gone to get The Master's remains from the belly of the beast. He's NOT going to be going around and asking questions. And it's possible Eight did look into why Skaro returned or asked Romana, etc and looking into it was too dangerous. I can't see Eight trying to destroy Skaro again (and it was a lucky gambit that got it destroyed in the first place).
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Post by valeyard on Sept 3, 2017 11:25:46 GMT
Either works, as the Daleks could easily do both. I don't see why any further explanation is needed. It's in a TV episode of Doctor Who; the Daleks rebuilt Skaro. So that - for me anyway - explains why Skaro exists. And in the TV Movie, The Doctor's just gone to get The Master's remains from the belly of the beast. He's NOT going to be going around and asking questions. And it's possible Eight did look into why Skaro returned or asked Romana, etc and looking into it was too dangerous. I can't see Eight trying to destroy Skaro again (and it was a lucky gambit that got it destroyed in the first place). Forgot about the tv movie. What a mess.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 13:17:21 GMT
And in the TV Movie, The Doctor's just gone to get The Master's remains from the belly of the beast. He's NOT going to be going around and asking questions. And it's possible Eight did look into why Skaro returned or asked Romana, etc and looking into it was too dangerous. I can't see Eight trying to destroy Skaro again (and it was a lucky gambit that got it destroyed in the first place). Forgot about the tv movie. What a mess. Well, forget about The Daleks' part in it anyway. Having The Doctor go to Skaro to collect the remains of The Master, let alone the Daleks putting The Master on trial in the first place, was a load of nonsense.
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Post by valeyard on Sept 3, 2017 15:31:35 GMT
Forgot about the tv movie. What a mess. Well, forget about The Daleks' part in it anyway. Having The Doctor go to Skaro to collect the remains of The Master, let alone the Daleks putting The Master on trial in the first place, was a load of nonsense. True, very true.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 0:32:27 GMT
Well, forget about The Daleks' part in it anyway. Having The Doctor go to Skaro to collect the remains of The Master, let alone the Daleks putting The Master on trial in the first place, was a load of nonsense. True, very true.
Love it or leave it, it's canon, though. We're not talking about the merits of the TV movie, we're talking about canon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 2:12:28 GMT
And it's not entirely unprecedented either, Revelation of the Daleks had the taskforce assigned to Necros state that their creator was to be tried for crimes against the Daleks. I, Davros and other stories since then have shown that the tribunal is closer to an interrogation than anything else. As Davros put it: "I feel like second-hand goods, I cannot be returned if you consider me faulty. What are you 'trying' me out for, exactly?"
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Post by valeyard on Sept 6, 2017 11:38:31 GMT
And it's not entirely unprecedented either, Revelation of the Daleks had the taskforce assigned to Necros state that their creator was to be tried for crimes against the Daleks. I, Davros and other stories since then have shown that the tribunal is closer to an interrogation than anything else. As Davros put it: "I feel like second-hand goods, I cannot be returned if you consider me faulty. What are you 'trying' me out for, exactly?" But, not the fault of Classic Who.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 11:53:29 GMT
And it's not entirely unprecedented either, Revelation of the Daleks had the taskforce assigned to Necros state that their creator was to be tried for crimes against the Daleks. I, Davros and other stories since then have shown that the tribunal is closer to an interrogation than anything else. As Davros put it: "I feel like second-hand goods, I cannot be returned if you consider me faulty. What are you 'trying' me out for, exactly?" But, not the fault of Classic Who. Which? Daleks having trials or the Master in particular being on put on trial? I'm tempted to believe nowadays that between Classic Series and NuWho we should put in the Wilderness Years as an era all its own because there's a lot that's not covered by either field. I'm a bit disappointed that the TV Movie didn't explore its characters a bit more. The bits and pieces of Grace's backstory added for the novelisation involving her mother in Sacramento give her a nice bit of pathos. I still think it was a missed opportunity not to have the Master walk straight into Chinatown and singlehandedly take over Chang Lee's gang like he did the circusfolk in Terror of the Autons.
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Post by valeyard on Sept 6, 2017 14:29:12 GMT
But, not the fault of Classic Who. Which? Daleks having trials or the Master in particular being on put on trial? I'm tempted to believe nowadays that between Classic Series and NuWho we should put in the Wilderness Years as an era all its own because there's a lot that's not covered by either field. I'm a bit disappointed that the TV Movie didn't explore its characters a bit more. The bits and pieces of Grace's backstory added for the novelisation involving her mother in Sacramento give her a nice bit of pathos. I still think it was a missed opportunity not to have the Master walk straight into Chinatown and singlehandedly take over Chang Lee's gang like he did the circusfolk in Terror of the Autons. Skaro coming back in tv movie is not the fault of Classic Who.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 21:27:48 GMT
Which? Daleks having trials or the Master in particular being on put on trial? I'm tempted to believe nowadays that between Classic Series and NuWho we should put in the Wilderness Years as an era all its own because there's a lot that's not covered by either field. I'm a bit disappointed that the TV Movie didn't explore its characters a bit more. The bits and pieces of Grace's backstory added for the novelisation involving her mother in Sacramento give her a nice bit of pathos. I still think it was a missed opportunity not to have the Master walk straight into Chinatown and singlehandedly take over Chang Lee's gang like he did the circusfolk in Terror of the Autons. Skaro coming back in tv movie is not the fault of Classic Who. Oh, that. Nope, but then it's part of the show's history now, might as well make the most of it. Again, there are a tonne of explanations out there for its return now. Antalin moved in its place, Antalin used as a de facto new Skaro, either Falkus or Omega Mysterium retrofitted in its place, etc. I can see the Daleks bringing back their ancestral home and using revisionist propaganda to say that it was never destroyed as a power move.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Sept 7, 2017 6:09:53 GMT
But, not the fault of Classic Who. Which? Daleks having trials or the Master in particular being on put on trial? I'm tempted to believe nowadays that between Classic Series and NuWho we should put in the Wilderness Years as an era all its own because there's a lot that's not covered by either field. I'm a bit disappointed that the TV Movie didn't explore its characters a bit more. The bits and pieces of Grace's backstory added for the novelisation involving her mother in Sacramento give her a nice bit of pathos. I still think it was a missed opportunity not to have the Master walk straight into Chinatown and singlehandedly take over Chang Lee's gang like he did the circusfolk in Terror of the Autons.I never thought of that before, but it really was a missed opportunity to make Chang Lee's gang plot a little more relevant and give the Master some great moments.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 6:43:11 GMT
Which? Daleks having trials or the Master in particular being on put on trial? I'm tempted to believe nowadays that between Classic Series and NuWho we should put in the Wilderness Years as an era all its own because there's a lot that's not covered by either field. I'm a bit disappointed that the TV Movie didn't explore its characters a bit more. The bits and pieces of Grace's backstory added for the novelisation involving her mother in Sacramento give her a nice bit of pathos. I still think it was a missed opportunity not to have the Master walk straight into Chinatown and singlehandedly take over Chang Lee's gang like he did the circusfolk in Terror of the Autons.I never thought of that before, but it really was a missed opportunity to make Chang Lee's gang plot a little more relevant and give the Master some great moments. I think that idea came from a treatment I wrote a long time ago. From memory, the Master starts to work setting up a checkpoint around the TARDIS with his goons after bombing the hospital elevator as Bruce. The idea being that even if the Doctor isn't inside, his innate selflessness will demand that he "waste time" (as he puts it) trying to save those trapped within. Lee gets to avenge the deaths of his brother and parents, but turns against the Master when he starts using fellow gang members as hostages against the Doctor. The bigger plot was that the TARDIS's interior dimensions are "leaking" throughout Chinatown meaning that he has to steal equipment from Professor Wagg's institute (through Grace) to stabilise its dimensions. It was very Big Trouble in Little China with the Master planning to use the damaged TARDIS to create a shadow kingdom impervious to attack, using the architecture of San Francisco to bolster the failing Ship. I had this very vivid image of the Eighth Doctor trapped as an insubstantial spectre in the time rotor when Grace disconnects the console during her desperate rewiring. He lures the Master into the Eye by pretending to be his future self.
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Post by mrperson on Sept 7, 2017 17:19:52 GMT
I'll chime in just to say that the idea of the Daleks rebuilding Skaro is simply silly. They are not sentimental creatures. Even if they decided that they really needed to have a big base of operations right where Skaro used to be, they wouldn't waste resources recreating the planet itself. They'd just build the base and get on with the exterminating.
At least the love/hate/pet relationship with Davros makes some sense: they sometimes need a mind that isn't pure Dalek to strategize or invent differently.
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Post by number13 on Sept 7, 2017 18:35:59 GMT
I'll chime in just to say that the idea of the Daleks rebuilding Skaro is simply silly. They are not sentimental creatures. Even if they decided that they really needed to have a big base of operations right where Skaro used to be, they wouldn't waste resources recreating the planet itself. They'd just build the base and get on with the exterminating. At least the love/hate/pet relationship with Davros makes some sense: they sometimes need a mind that isn't pure Dalek to strategize or invent differently. And it wasn't just Skaro that was destoyed. I thought the Doctor used 'The Hand of Omega', a remote stellar manipulator, to detonate Skaro's sun as a supernova and collapse it into a black hole, just as Omega did to create the Eye of Harmony that powers Time Lord civilisation. (Classic era Third and Fourth Doctor canon anyway.) Skaro and the other planets of the system would go with it. There would be nothing left of their world or its star. We know Daleks can steal planets because they tried to steal the Earth, so they could get 'New Skaro' from somewhere, but how would they get the new sun for it to orbit? And even if they did, their bit of 'home space' would now have an inconvenient and very dangerous black hole sitting on it...
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Post by sherlock on Sept 7, 2017 18:48:34 GMT
I'll chime in just to say that the idea of the Daleks rebuilding Skaro is simply silly. They are not sentimental creatures. Even if they decided that they really needed to have a big base of operations right where Skaro used to be, they wouldn't waste resources recreating the planet itself. They'd just build the base and get on with the exterminating. At least the love/hate/pet relationship with Davros makes some sense: they sometimes need a mind that isn't pure Dalek to strategize or invent differently. The Daleks do however have a fixation on their own superiority to everything else. What worse blow to that image is the destruction of their original planet? Simply to regain that it makes sense they would rebuild Skaro.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 1:17:48 GMT
I'll chime in just to say that the idea of the Daleks rebuilding Skaro is simply silly. They are not sentimental creatures. Even if they decided that they really needed to have a big base of operations right where Skaro used to be, they wouldn't waste resources recreating the planet itself. They'd just build the base and get on with the exterminating. At least the love/hate/pet relationship with Davros makes some sense: they sometimes need a mind that isn't pure Dalek to strategize or invent differently. The Daleks do however have a fixation on their own superiority to everything else. What worse blow to that image is the destruction of their original planet? Simply to regain that it makes sense they would rebuild Skaro. It would definitely point to them setting up elsewhere and renaming that planet for propaganda purposes. Unless the Seventh Doctor can't read a star-map, but I doubt it. He's got very good eyes. On a less serious note, it's more or less the Daleks going: "EVERYTHING IS FINE. IT'S ALL FINE HERE. WE'RE FINE. THE DALEKS REIGN SUPREME. EXTERMINATIONS AS NORMAL." Ooh, there's a question for the ages. Does the TV Movie count as part of the classic era now? Where exactly is the cut-off 1989 or 2004?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 10:44:41 GMT
Ooh, there's a question for the ages. Does the TV Movie count as part of the classic era now? Where exactly is the cut-off 1989 or 2004? Easy one... the TV Movie is from the TV Movie era!
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Post by number13 on Sept 8, 2017 10:57:12 GMT
Ooh, there's a question for the ages. Does the TV Movie count as part of the classic era now? Where exactly is the cut-off 1989 or 2004? Easy one... the TV Movie is from the TV Movie era! It is rather... unique, isn't it! But I would always place The TV Movie in the classic era because Paul McGann's excellent Eighth Doctor is the last of the classic Doctors. Perhaps his later BF stories (the 8DAs, I haven't heard any of the box sets yet) do form a sort of bridge towards the new series, thinking of the companions and some of the pacing, but he began with Charley and Mary in the Monthly Range and that is the original BF home of the classic Doctors.
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