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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 13:58:59 GMT
At the offence of others who don't agree with you. That's plain bigotry, as far as I can see it. If I am bigoted against Trump supporters than so be it. But it's kind of amusing that Trump supporters & conservatives call liberals snowflakes. This isn't a simply a difference of opinion about whether you like or dislike Doctor Who. This difference of opinion is affecting people's livelihoods. I know it is. But you're being irrational, bigoted and self-centered. Something that Liberals call Conservatives. So... I'm afraid you are kind of being unfair.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on May 14, 2017 14:24:21 GMT
If I am bigoted against Trump supporters than so be it. But it's kind of amusing that Trump supporters & conservatives call liberals snowflakes. This isn't a simply a difference of opinion about whether you like or dislike Doctor Who. This difference of opinion is affecting people's livelihoods. I know it is. But you're being irrational, bigoted and self-centered. Something that Liberals call Conservatives. So... I'm afraid you are kind of being unfair. Mate, I've read kimalysong's comments here and in no way is she being irrational or self-centred. I totally get that you feel she is being bigoted, but she isn't trying to reduce people by using a racial, ableist or gendered slur: she's expressing an opinion based upon her experiences with Mr Trump's time as president of her country. "Fool" and "liar" are pretty mild names to be called in a political debate, by the way, regardless of what you might personally consider to be offensive.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 14, 2017 14:27:11 GMT
It's true, if anyone thinks that Trump and his associates have nothing to hide, well, they are out of their minds. A person doesn't fire the three people who have been investigating Trump, his associates and their ties to Russia unless they want to replace them with people who won't follow through on those investigations. Trump's rantings since the Tuesday massacre have gotten more & more unhinged. The man is clearly paranoid and delusional. And he still has absolutely no clue about how our government is set up to work. Asking the FBI Director if he is under investigation is a serious breach of norms. Asking the FBI Director for a pledge of loyalty is a total breach of accepted norms that runs counter to why we give FBI Directors 10 year terms. Trump admitting in his interview with Lester Holt that the Russia investigation played a part in him terminating Comey comes pretty close to obstruction of justice. Threatening Comey with tape recordings that may or may not exist comes pretty close to obstruction of justice. And that is just in the past few days. I could go on. The only thing that is saving Trump is that he is giving the GOP in Congress the candy they have been dying to get for years. The GOP truly is selling out the country to get their agenda passed.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 14:29:34 GMT
Amazing how fast the right wingers turn any kind of Trump criticism into facile "But, but Hilary...." rhetoric rather than deal with the issue at hand. If Obama had pulled a hundredth of the crap Trump does, the same people would have been up in arms.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 14, 2017 14:42:48 GMT
Amazing how fast the right wingers turn any kind of Trump criticism into facile "But, but Hilary...." rhetoric rather than deal with the issue at hand. If Obama had pulled a hundredth of the crap Trump does, the same people would have been up in arms. Oh please. Articles of impeachment would have already been introduced.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 14:46:03 GMT
I know it is. But you're being irrational, bigoted and self-centered. Something that Liberals call Conservatives. So... I'm afraid you are kind of being unfair. Mate, I've read kimalysong's comments here and in no way is she being irrational or self-centred. I totally get that you feel she is being bigoted, but she isn't trying to reduce people by using a racial, ableist or gendered slur: she's expressing an opinion based upon her experiences with Mr Trump's time as president of her country. "Fool" and "liar" are pretty mild names to be called in a political debate, by the way, regardless of what you might personally consider to be offensive. Still it is completely unfair and irrational. I get the impression you agree with her. However, that is not excuse for a political debate to result into insults for people who support or do not support a specific belief/person/etc.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 14:47:24 GMT
Amazing how fast the right wingers turn any kind of Trump criticism into facile "But, but Hilary...." rhetoric rather than deal with the issue at hand. If Obama had pulled a hundredth of the c**p Trump does, the same people would have been up in arms. Ironic you say that. A frequent point is that Obama did something very similar thing to Trump by banning people from specific countries. I don't think they are that similar, but Obama got a scarce amount of c**p for that. And I'm all right if you disagree. Unlike others.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 14:49:27 GMT
It's true, if anyone thinks that Trump and his associates have nothing to hide, well, they are out of their minds. A person doesn't fire the three people who have been investigating Trump, his associates and their ties to Russia unless they want to replace them with people who won't follow through on those investigations. Trump's rantings since the Tuesday massacre have gotten more & more unhinged. The man is clearly paranoid and delusional. And he still has absolutely no clue about how our government is set up to work. Asking the FBI Director if he is under investigation is a serious breach of norms. Asking the FBI Director for a pledge of loyalty is a total breach of accepted norms that runs counter to why we give FBI Directors 10 year terms. Trump admitting in his interview with Lester Holt that the Russia investigation played a part in him terminating Comey comes pretty close to obstruction of justice. Threatening Comey with tape recordings that may or may not exist comes pretty close to obstruction of justice. And that is just in the past few days. I could go on. The only thing that is saving Trump is that he is giving the GOP in Congress the candy they have been dying to get for years. The GOP truly is selling out the country to get their agenda passed. To be honest, you're both putting people in a box and being unnecassarily cruel. Two things I disagree with. Fine. I can see your point of view about the FBI, but... it might not be that. It could be that, but there's always a chance.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 14, 2017 15:05:04 GMT
It's true, if anyone thinks that Trump and his associates have nothing to hide, well, they are out of their minds. A person doesn't fire the three people who have been investigating Trump, his associates and their ties to Russia unless they want to replace them with people who won't follow through on those investigations. Trump's rantings since the Tuesday massacre have gotten more & more unhinged. The man is clearly paranoid and delusional. And he still has absolutely no clue about how our government is set up to work. Asking the FBI Director if he is under investigation is a serious breach of norms. Asking the FBI Director for a pledge of loyalty is a total breach of accepted norms that runs counter to why we give FBI Directors 10 year terms. Trump admitting in his interview with Lester Holt that the Russia investigation played a part in him terminating Comey comes pretty close to obstruction of justice. Threatening Comey with tape recordings that may or may not exist comes pretty close to obstruction of justice. And that is just in the past few days. I could go on. The only thing that is saving Trump is that he is giving the GOP in Congress the candy they have been dying to get for years. The GOP truly is selling out the country to get their agenda passed. To be honest, you're both putting people in a box and being unnecassarily cruel. Two things I disagree with. Fine. I can see your point of view about the FBI, but... it might not be that. It could be that, but there's always a chance. I'm willing to use the word delusional instead of the words out of their minds if it helps you. People delude themselves all the time about all sorts of things. Things we know: John McCain handed over the Steele dossier to the FBI personally. By January the Bureau determined that several of the allegations made about Trump were credible. Trump has said over & over again he doesn't have any business dealing with Russia, except the ones we know about. Yet both his sons have confirmed that Russian money has played a key role in expanding and supporting Trump branded properties. In the recent weeks the FBI investigation into Trump and his associates had picked up major steam and he was receiving daily briefings instead of weekly briefings. We know that a few days before he was terminated Comey approached Deputy DOJ Director about additional funds and manpower to devote to the Trump investigation. Sure, none of this or what has been previously mentioned may to lead to anything conclusive but the continued actions of this unstable President certainly makes the thought that there is something there all the more probable.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 15:09:56 GMT
To be honest, you're both putting people in a box and being unnecassarily cruel. Two things I disagree with. Fine. I can see your point of view about the FBI, but... it might not be that. It could be that, but there's always a chance. I'm willing to use the word delusional instead of the words out of their minds if it helps you. People delude themselves all the time about all sorts of things. Things we know: John McCain handed over the Steele dossier to the FBI personally. By January the Bureau determined that several of the allegations made about Trump were credible. Trump has said over & over again he doesn't have any business dealing with Russia, except the ones we know about. Yet both his sons have confirmed that Russian money has played a key role in expanding and supporting Trump branded properties. In the recent weeks the FBI investigation into Trump and his associates had picked up major steam and he was receiving daily briefings instead of weekly briefings. We know that a few days before he was terminated Comey approached Deputy DOJ Director about additional funds and manpower to devote to the Trump investigation. Sure, none of this or what has been previously mentioned may to lead to anything conclusive but the continued actions of this unstable President certainly makes the thought that there is something there all the more probable. But that isn't confirmation. It's speculation. To be fair, the speculation is interesting, but it is potentially not entirely true. If nothing else, sounds a tad like a conspiracy theory.
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Post by kimalysong on May 14, 2017 15:14:20 GMT
Mate, I've read kimalysong's comments here and in no way is she being irrational or self-centred. I totally get that you feel she is being bigoted, but she isn't trying to reduce people by using a racial, ableist or gendered slur: she's expressing an opinion based upon her experiences with Mr Trump's time as president of her country. "Fool" and "liar" are pretty mild names to be called in a political debate, by the way, regardless of what you might personally consider to be offensive. Still it is completely unfair and irrational. I get the impression you agree with her. However, that is not excuse for a political debate to result into insults for people who support or do not support a specific belief/person/etc. I hardly think calling someone foolish for their political beliefs is that horrible. Unfortunately I am not going to apologize for it either because it is what I believe. I have yet to see anyone who supports Trump give a rational reason for his behavior in regards to this Russian investigation. Hence I can only conclude that these people are too foolish to see the forest for the trees or are lying themselves. I could of course be wrong but since Trump is doing everything in his power to quelch this investigation I may never find out. Apologies if this offends you but I call it as I see it.
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Post by sherlock on May 14, 2017 15:20:03 GMT
I've seen much worse than 'fool' being used in political debates. Over on Facebook I've been called a traitor/cuck/'Libtard'/'Remoaner', if you think fool's bad I'd advice you to avoid Facebook comment sections (which if I'm honest is good advice in general).
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 15:22:52 GMT
Still it is completely unfair and irrational. I get the impression you agree with her. However, that is not excuse for a political debate to result into insults for people who support or do not support a specific belief/person/etc. I hardly think calling someone foolish for their political beliefs is that horrible. Unfortunately I am not going to apologize for it either because it is what I believe. I have yet to see anyone who supports Trump give a rational reason for his behavior in regards to this Russian investigation. Hence I can only conclude that these people are too foolish to see the forest for the trees or are lying themselves. I could of course be wrong but since Trump is doing everything in his power to quelch this investigation I may never find out. Apologies if this offends you but I call it as I see it. I don't think anyone's given a rational explanation. So, everyone's foolish, by that logic. Also calling people fools simply because they disagree with you is incredibly offensive and immoral, especially as you're a moderator.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 14, 2017 15:22:58 GMT
I'm willing to use the word delusional instead of the words out of their minds if it helps you. People delude themselves all the time about all sorts of things. Things we know: John McCain handed over the Steele dossier to the FBI personally. By January the Bureau determined that several of the allegations made about Trump were credible. Trump has said over & over again he doesn't have any business dealing with Russia, except the ones we know about. Yet both his sons have confirmed that Russian money has played a key role in expanding and supporting Trump branded properties. In the recent weeks the FBI investigation into Trump and his associates had picked up major steam and he was receiving daily briefings instead of weekly briefings. We know that a few days before he was terminated Comey approached Deputy DOJ Director about additional funds and manpower to devote to the Trump investigation. Sure, none of this or what has been previously mentioned may to lead to anything conclusive but the continued actions of this unstable President certainly makes the thought that there is something there all the more probable. But that isn't confirmation. It's speculation. To be fair, the speculation is interesting, but it is potentially not entirely true. If nothing else, sounds a tad like a conspiracy theory. No matter what you think, we know all of these things are going on. We know the investigations are taking place. We know Russian operatives hacked the DNC and other organizations with the goal of swinging the US election towards Mr. Trump. We know Trump fired three key law enforcement people heading up various investigations. We know about Michael Flynn. We know about the lies of Jeff Sessions & Jared Kushner. We know about the Russian ties between Paul Manafort and Russia. All of the roads lead to Trump and Putin. It is speculation but it is speculation informed by a lot of fact & reporting. None of this is happening in a vacuum. Speaking as a citizen of this nation, as someone who cares about the country I just want to know the truth. I want to know where all these points meet. The credibility of this nation is at stake and no matter your political bent, I would think everyone would sleep better if they knew what the hell was going on. If it is all nothing, great Trump is still profoundly unequipped to be President but at least he doesn't have the shadow of treason hanging over his administration. Yet if all this smoke blowing in one direction leads to a pretty big damn fire, then that needs to be resolved as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 15:23:48 GMT
I've seen much worse than 'fool' being used in political debates. Over on Facebook I've been called a traitor/cuck/'Libtard'/'Remoaner', if you think fool's bad I'd advice you to avoid Facebook comment sections (which if I'm honest is good advice in general). I know, but I don't like that kind of thing. I don't care if something's worse. Just, at the end of the day, resulting to insults is wrong.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 15:26:59 GMT
But that isn't confirmation. It's speculation. To be fair, the speculation is interesting, but it is potentially not entirely true. If nothing else, sounds a tad like a conspiracy theory. No matter what you think, we know all of these things are going on. We know the investigations are taking place. We know Russian operatives hacked the DNC and other organizations with the goal of swinging the US election towards Mr. Trump. We know Trump fired three key law enforcement people heading up various investigations. We know about Michael Flynn. We know about the lies of Jeff Sessions & Jared Kushner. We know about the Russian ties between Paul Manafort and Russia. All of the roads lead to Trump and Putin. It is speculation but it is speculation informed by a lot of fact & reporting. None of this is happening in a vacuum. Speaking as a citizen of this nation, as someone who cares about the country I just want to know the truth. I want to know where all these points meet. The credibility of this nation is at stake and no matter your political bent, I would think everyone would sleep better if they knew what the hell was going on. If it is all nothing, great Trump is still profoundly unequipped to be President but at least he doesn't have the shadow of treason hanging over his administration. Yet if all this smoke blowing in one direction leads to a pretty big damn fire, then that needs to be resolved as well. I know them things are going on. There is still some speculation over Comey's conduct, with many rating it prejudice. And maybe we do know the truth somewhat. That he was fired for misconduct, as Trump seemed to suggest.
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Post by kimalysong on May 14, 2017 15:33:43 GMT
I hardly think calling someone foolish for their political beliefs is that horrible. Unfortunately I am not going to apologize for it either because it is what I believe. I have yet to see anyone who supports Trump give a rational reason for his behavior in regards to this Russian investigation. Hence I can only conclude that these people are too foolish to see the forest for the trees or are lying themselves. I could of course be wrong but since Trump is doing everything in his power to quelch this investigation I may never find out. Apologies if this offends you but I call it as I see it. I don't think anyone's given a rational explanation. So, everyone's foolish, by that logic. Also calling people fools simply because they disagree with you is incredibly offensive and immoral, especially as you're a moderator. Everyone is free to have whatever opinion they like but people are allowed to call them out on that opinion. Anyways I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone on these boards personally. I made a general statement about people who support Trump. I realize it does include some people on these boards (but it also includes members of my family). It includes a whole lot of people and wasn't aimed at any specific individual. Also I am not trying to say these people are foolish in all matters just in my opinion when it comes to the Trump situation. My country, the livelihood of myself & people I know are affected by other people's political opinions. There is a reason why politics are a contentious subject If you find the other side foolish well that is certainly your prerogative. But I did not call Trump supporters fools simply because they disagreed with me. That being said you are right that I shouldn't let my anger at the political situation interfere here on these boards. And I am sorry for that at least. .
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 14, 2017 15:38:33 GMT
Except that isn't what Trump said he fired him for. The second time he tried to come up with a rationale. And looking back to the first try at why, it makes no sense. It was that very conduct which Trump & Sessions praised & supported on several occasions. You don't fire someone for something they did 5 months ago that you agree with,..... that would have been Obama who could have done that....to the howls of every Republican on the planet....., especially when Trump is praising those actions in public. Again, this is speculation informed by a lot of fact. And again, every American should want to know the truth. Where are you getting prejudice from? Specific source please.
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Post by sherlock on May 14, 2017 15:54:40 GMT
No matter what you think, we know all of these things are going on. We know the investigations are taking place. We know Russian operatives hacked the DNC and other organizations with the goal of swinging the US election towards Mr. Trump. We know Trump fired three key law enforcement people heading up various investigations. We know about Michael Flynn. We know about the lies of Jeff Sessions & Jared Kushner. We know about the Russian ties between Paul Manafort and Russia. All of the roads lead to Trump and Putin. It is speculation but it is speculation informed by a lot of fact & reporting. None of this is happening in a vacuum. Speaking as a citizen of this nation, as someone who cares about the country I just want to know the truth. I want to know where all these points meet. The credibility of this nation is at stake and no matter your political bent, I would think everyone would sleep better if they knew what the hell was going on. If it is all nothing, great Trump is still profoundly unequipped to be President but at least he doesn't have the shadow of treason hanging over his administration. Yet if all this smoke blowing in one direction leads to a pretty big damn fire, then that needs to be resolved as well. I know them things are going on. There is still some speculation over Comey's conduct, with many rating it prejudice. And maybe we do know the truth somewhat. That he was fired for misconduct, as Trump seemed to suggest. Thing is there hasn't been one story. White House claimed Trump acted on advice from justice department. Trump claimed he personally always intended to fire Comey for being a 'showboat' (takes one to know one I guess), suggesting the decision was all him. Which is it? Both? Neither?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 14, 2017 16:29:07 GMT
Trump and his boiling over frustrations You know at the very least we should all be able to agree that having a POTUS who is rash, impulsive and who possess no self-control is not a good thing. We should all be able to agree with that, right?
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