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Post by theotherjosh on May 18, 2017 14:52:16 GMT
A friend of mine wrote his doctoral thesis on the evolution of Mordred as a character. One time he was visiting my house and we were watching Jeopardy. One of the categories was Camelot. He swept it, of course and complained that the questions were too easy.
That doesn't have much to do with anything. I just think it's a funny story.
The legend of King Arthur is older than much of modern civilization, and its been reinterpreted many times. It's found its way into almost everything. Do you have a favorite take on the story?
I like the throwawy line in the Dark Tower series about how the barrels of the guns used by the gunslinger were forged from Arther Eld's sword.
I'm also very fond of Roger Zelazny's "The Last Defender of Camelot". I love all of his work, but I think his shorter works are his best, and this may be his finest. It was adapted for an episode of the new Twilight Zone by George Martin, but that was kind of awful.
I read The Once and Future King as a kid (I was in a school production of Camelot!), but I think a lot of it went over my head. It may be time to return to it.
Also, Greg Stafford's Great Pendragon campaign is pretty cool for those role-players out there.
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Post by jasonward on May 18, 2017 15:07:26 GMT
Oddly, I somewhat dislike the Arthurian legend, not because I actually have any dislike of the many versions of the story itself, but because there are so many people out there that will tell you this or that version is true.
But if you strip away all the elements added since the very earliest recorded versions of the story, your left with only with a probable immediately post Roman period warlord and associates who controlled an area on the English Welsh border whose Welsh names when rendered directly into English have a striking resemblance to some of the earliest characters in the story and some events that with the eye of faith and some hand waving might be the historical truth behind some of the stories.
But Glastonbury and all that? Nope, no basis in the historical records at all.
The story of Arthur is a rich tapestry, woven by many hands from many cultures over thousands of years, what little truth there ever might have been in the stories is now spread so thin and covered so deeply in fiction and half truths, and caked in hopes, dreams and fears of various people that the actual truth is probably unrecognisable.
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Post by redsharkJason on May 18, 2017 16:35:27 GMT
John Boorman's Excalibur (which was primarily adapted from Le Morte d'Arthur) with Nigel Terry as Arthur is definitely worth viewing. The musical score and visuals in that 1981 film are captivating.
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Post by muckypup on May 18, 2017 16:59:14 GMT
Sword in the stone or month pythons holy grail
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 19:00:27 GMT
Terence Hanbury White's The Once and Future King by a country mile.
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Post by theotherjosh on May 18, 2017 19:52:13 GMT
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izp1
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Post by izp1 on May 18, 2017 22:47:22 GMT
In the end, I think it has to be Malory's Morte d'Arthur (and how I'd love to see this TV version of the final book again, genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/14c0be58416840708647d6087c2fb6af). I do have a lot of time for Whyte (and particularly the originally trimmed back Book of Merlyn sections) and if you like 70s Who you'll get a lot of pleasure from the BBC's The Legend of King Arthur adapted by Andrew Davies, it's full of people you'll know. Like jasonward I'm also very interested in the historical gap where a real 'Dux Bellorum' Arthur might have lived. If the mythic Arthur of Battlefield (apparently centuries later in a parallel reality) hadn't made it tricky to deal with it'd be a great period for Who to explore.
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Post by number13 on May 18, 2017 23:19:57 GMT
Tennyson's 'Idylls of the King'. Partly because (very old fashioned and romantic though this may be) I love Tennyson's poetry generally for his sense of the wild western landscapes of Britain, deep with history.
Especially the last of the Idylls, 'The Passing of Arthur'.
"So all day long the noise of battle roll'd Among the mountains by the winter sea; Until King Arthur's Table, man by man, Had fall'n in Lyonnesse about their lord, King Arthur. Then, because his wound was deep, The bold Sir Bedivere uplifted him, And bore him to a chapel nigh the field, A broken chancel with a broken cross, That stood on a dark strait of barren land: On one side lay the Ocean, and on one Lay a great water, and the moon was full."
Sends a shiver down my romantic English spine... even though most of what we 'know' of Arthur is reimagined Norman French chivalry!
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Post by Timelord007 on May 19, 2017 7:17:19 GMT
Well it ain't the Guy Richie movie version.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 19, 2017 8:42:36 GMT
The Sam Neil "Merlin" miniseries.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 11:35:11 GMT
I'm also very fond of Roger Zelazny's "The Last Defender of Camelot". See, I know this one from The Twilight Zone revival in the 1980s (complete with questionable production values). George R.R. Martin did the adaptation and I had no idea it was originally one of Zelazny's works. I'll have to give this one some thought, I've seen many interpretations of the legend, but a favourite? Hmm... Not quite sure which one's my favourite.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on May 19, 2017 11:49:56 GMT
Okay, hopefully someone remembers what this show was called. I do remember a show from the late 80's/early 90's that involved a girl finding out that she was a descendant of King Arthur. Its set in the near future and I remember a lot of it taking place in a cafe type place. The villans I think were Black Clad Banshees? not quite sure. It involved the search for Arthur and Excalibur. One episode I remember involved a Samurai who turned up, but let himself get killed because he wasn't Arthur.
Please someone tell me what this was called and that it was real lol
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Post by theotherjosh on May 19, 2017 12:14:23 GMT
Okay, hopefully someone remembers what this show was called. I do remember a show from the late 80's/early 90's that involved a girl finding out that she was a descendant of King Arthur. Its set in the near future and I remember a lot of it taking place in a cafe type place. The villans I think were Black Clad Banshees? not quite sure. It involved the search for Arthur and Excalibur. One episode I remember involved a Samurai who turned up, but let himself get killed because he wasn't Arthur. Please someone tell me what this was called and that it was real lol
I skimmed Wikipedia's list of Arthurian television adaptations, but I didn't see anything that looked like it fit the bill, which is shame, because now I want to watch this show!
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Post by whiskeybrewer on May 19, 2017 12:18:10 GMT
Okay, hopefully someone remembers what this show was called. I do remember a show from the late 80's/early 90's that involved a girl finding out that she was a descendant of King Arthur. Its set in the near future and I remember a lot of it taking place in a cafe type place. The villans I think were Black Clad Banshees? not quite sure. It involved the search for Arthur and Excalibur. One episode I remember involved a Samurai who turned up, but let himself get killed because he wasn't Arthur. Please someone tell me what this was called and that it was real lol
I skimmed Wikipedia's list of Arthurian television adaptations, but I didn't see anything that looked like it fit the bill, which is shame, because now I want to watch this show!
I know right. I know it existed. It was either a BBC kids show or an ITV kids show. So it would be UK
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Post by theotherjosh on May 19, 2017 12:26:25 GMT
I'm also very fond of Roger Zelazny's "The Last Defender of Camelot". See, I know this one from The Twilight Zone revival in the 1980s (complete with questionable production values). George R.R. Martin did the adaptation and I had no idea it was originally one of Zelazny's works. I'll have to give this one some thought, I've seen many interpretations of the legend, but a favourite? Hmm... Not quite sure which one's my favourite. I think Martin did about as good a job adapting it as anyone could, considering the constraints of budget and format. I put together a blog post a couple years back about the differences between the short story and the episode. Personally, I put it in the same category as the Damnation Alley film, the Amber Choose Your Own Adventure books or the soundtrack based on Jack of Shadows, an interesting footnote to Zelazny's work that doesn't really compare to the original, but which doesn't detract from it either.
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Post by agentten on May 19, 2017 23:45:26 GMT
In written form, Le Morte d'Arthur, which I was introduced to and read over an exciting summer in high school. In filmed form, Excalibur, which is not perfect but I find it engrossing and starkly beautiful.
On a side note, I'm very fond of how the Arthurian legend is portrayed in Fate/Stay Night, which has an interesting twist on the story and meditates quite a bit on the weight of a crown.
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shutupbanks
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Post by shutupbanks on May 20, 2017 0:53:35 GMT
M. K. Hume wrote a trilogy of books about Arthur (starting with Dragon's Child) which is probably the most historically accurate version I've read. She went back and reviewed the history of the stories and noted when certain elements were added or changed (Lancelot, for instance, was added to the story several centuries after Arthur's first appearance) and came up with a pretty good retelling of the story.
Excalibur, however, is probably my favourite, along with Beloved Exile by Parke Godwin which is the story of Guinevere after the death of Arthur.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on May 20, 2017 1:37:47 GMT
There's a nice take on the story that Arthur was situated much further north, in Cumbria for instance, where there was indeed a full pocket of surviving britons etc, rather than in/around Wales.
Excalibur for me as a movie. Camelot 3000!
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 5:38:29 GMT
See, I know this one from The Twilight Zone revival in the 1980s (complete with questionable production values). George R.R. Martin did the adaptation and I had no idea it was originally one of Zelazny's works. I'll have to give this one some thought, I've seen many interpretations of the legend, but a favourite? Hmm... Not quite sure which one's my favourite. I think Martin did about as good a job adapting it as anyone could, considering the constraints of budget and format. I put together a blog post a couple years back about the differences between the short story and the episode. Personally, I put it in the same category as the Damnation Alley film, the Amber Choose Your Own Adventure books or the soundtrack based on Jack of Shadows, an interesting footnote to Zelazny's work that doesn't really compare to the original, but which doesn't detract from it either. Yeah, it's, unfortunately, one of the series strongest impediments. Sad really because a lot of stories manage to be just as good as their predecessors and there are episodes like Nightwalkers (directed by William Friedkin) and The Mind of Simon Foster (written by J. Michael Straczynski) that do manage to beat the odds, using their limited resources to the full. Often I'm under the impression that they wanted to present these stories in black-and-white as a stylistic choice, but were prevented somewhere down the line. Which is always nice. I've been seeing Zelazny's influence the video games of Chris Avellone quite a bit now that I've started reading some of his entries.
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Post by theotherjosh on May 20, 2017 10:20:26 GMT
Yeah, it's, unfortunately, one of the series strongest impediments. Sad really because a lot of stories manage to be just as good as their predecessors and there are episodes like Nightwalkers (directed by William Friedkin) and The Mind of Simon Foster (written by J. Michael Straczynski) that do manage to beat the odds, using their limited resources to the full. Often I'm under the impression that they wanted to present these stories in black-and-white as a stylistic choice, but were prevented somewhere down the line. That's very interesting! You're obviously much more informed that I am, but now I want to do some more digging. Which is always nice. I've been seeing Zelazny's influence the video games of Chris Avellone quite a bit now that I've started reading some of his entries. Ah, thanks for the tip! I knew about the Zelazny influence in Planescape: Torment (A passage from Guns of Avalon directly inspired the central question), but I figured it was just a one-off, not a pervasive influence on Avellone's writing. I backed the Kickstarter for Torment: Tides of Numenera back in 2013 but I haven't played it yet. Maybe this will inspire me.
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