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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jun 5, 2017 3:44:35 GMT
I could certainly buy a "redeemed" but not necessarily on the same page as the Doctor morally Master. It could give the character an interesting new direction to go in and I think it would be an improvement over "bananas"/psychopath Master, as much fun as it is to watch Gomez play her.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 18, 2017 9:25:32 GMT
And now, how are people feeling after the end of Eaters?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 9:38:10 GMT
*** Moderation ***A reminder for the use of spoiler tags. Not everyone follows rumours and speculation threads and not everyone knows what's coming or who's appearing in the (yet to be broadcast) upcoming episodes. I am going to add spoilers to the title but please think about other members when you post. Not everyone will have seen last night's episode, so spoiler rules still apply. *** End Moderation *** Don't know if that's in reference to Jason's post about John Simm's return but if so - it was officially announced by the Beeb months ago and he's in the actual trailer for the season. How often must we have the "if it's announced officially it's not a spoiler" "Yes it is" debate?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 9:41:02 GMT
And now, how are people feeling after the end of Eaters? Moved? Yes, moved. That was some wonderful acting from Capaldi and Gomez. They really do feel like two estranged friends reconnecting, though still unable to trust one another. It's feeling more and more like an expansion of Joe Lidster's idea for Master. Is evil inherent in your core or something that grows around you bit-by-bit?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 9:43:31 GMT
And now, how are people feeling after the end of Eaters? Exactly the same - that anyone answering definitively is being rash. Surely "It was all a ruse, Doctor" is too cheap since that's the character's big thing,to betray The Doctor and lie...it would be predictable. But then surely the character can't be betrayed by a full-on face turn after all that's gone before. I'm guessing somewhere in the middle - Missy causes some very,very bad things to happen (maybe for "good" reasons), The Doctor realises that good and evil are misnomers and that Missy can't truly just be either, and then Missy redeeming herself to save The Doctor/Bill. I wouldn't be shocked if she killed Simm and creates herself in effect.
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Post by number13 on Jun 18, 2017 10:25:15 GMT
And now, how are people feeling after the end of Eaters? Exactly the same - that anyone answering definitively is being rash. Surely "It was all a ruse, Doctor" is too cheap since that's the character's big thing,to betray The Doctor and lie...it would be predictable. But then surely the character can't be betrayed by a full-on face turn after all that's gone before. I'm guessing somewhere in the middle - Missy causes some very,very bad things to happen (maybe for "good" reasons), The Doctor realises that good and evil are misnomers and that Missy can't truly just be either, and then Missy redeeming herself to save The Doctor/Bill. I wouldn't be shocked if she killed Simm and creates herself in effect. Very, very clever idea - if they don't do that I will be disappointed now. How cool a scene would that be, him regenerating into her - before her own eyes...!
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Post by theotherjosh on Jun 21, 2017 20:03:11 GMT
I remember talking about the final Harry Potter books with a friend shortly after book seven to come out. He said something that stuck with me: I don't think you can slouch toward redemption. "Do or do not, there is no try." He had opportunities.
I believe in redemption, absolutely. My very favorite stories are tales of redemption. But even accepting, arguendo that Missy’s sorrow as genuine, feeling bad isn’t even the first step on the road to redemption. It’s the absolute minimum requirement to begin that journey.
I’m going to be very annoyed if they fall back on the redemption=death cliché. It’s a cheat.
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Post by SG. on Jun 21, 2017 20:14:41 GMT
I feel the redemption of this particular incarnation of the Master could work - after all, this is the one who created an army of Cybermen just to give them to the Doctor, the one who walked through a planet full of the Daleks just to save him. Sure, she was Masterful (hehe) the whole time, but there's definitely already something deeper there. And judging by what's happened since this thread was made, this redemption seems genuine.
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Post by mrperson on Jun 21, 2017 20:47:45 GMT
I remember talking about the final Harry Potter books with a friend shortly after book seven to come out. He said something that stuck with me: I don't think you can slouch toward redemption. "Do or do not, there is no try." He had opportunities.
I believe in redemption, absolutely. My very favorite stories are tales of redemption. But even accepting, arguendo that Missy’s sorrow as genuine, feeling bad isn’t even the first step on the road to redemption. It’s the absolute minimum requirement to begin that journey. I’m going to be very annoyed if they fall back on the redemption=death cliché. It’s a cheat. re: the bolded. Yoda is a personal friend, is he? (Fairly certain that's a quote from Return....the business with trying (and failing) to get the ship out of the muck).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 20:54:31 GMT
I remember talking about the final Harry Potter books with a friend shortly after book seven to come out. He said something that stuck with me: I don't think you can slouch toward redemption. "Do or do not, there is no try." He had opportunities.
I believe in redemption, absolutely. My very favorite stories are tales of redemption. But even accepting, arguendo that Missy’s sorrow as genuine, feeling bad isn’t even the first step on the road to redemption. It’s the absolute minimum requirement to begin that journey. I’m going to be very annoyed if they fall back on the redemption=death cliché. It’s a cheat. re: the bolded. Yoda is a personal friend, is he? (Fairly certain that's a quote from Return....the business with trying (and failing) to get the ship out of the muck). Empire
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Post by mrperson on Jun 21, 2017 21:15:04 GMT
re: the bolded. Yoda is a personal friend, is he? (Fairly certain that's a quote from Return....the business with trying (and failing) to get the ship out of the muck). Empire Oh...right...RIGHT! Ugh
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Post by theotherjosh on Jun 21, 2017 21:56:03 GMT
Yoda is a personal friend, is he? Well, yeah, he was quoting Yoda. I wasn't trying to hide that part. Isn't quoting science fiction at our friends the way our people communicate?
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Post by stcoop on Jun 21, 2017 22:06:21 GMT
There's a photo here that might answer the question, especially if the person in the middle is who the trailers would suggest it is...
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jun 22, 2017 2:57:38 GMT
There's a theory that SPOILER is actually there HELPING Missy redeem herself, or at least is supportive of the idea. It could explain why when we first meet Missy she's not plotting against the Doctor, she trying to be nice to him - because she knows at some point in her future the Doctor and her begin to rebuild their friendship, so she goes about attempting to make it happen.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 22, 2017 8:41:47 GMT
There's a theory that SPOILER is actually there HELPING Missy redeem herself, or at least is supportive of the idea. It could explain why when we first meet Missy she's not plotting against the Doctor, she trying to be nice to him - because she knows at some point in her future the Doctor and her begin to rebuild their friendship, so she goes about attempting to make it happen. The photo in the Digital Spy article suggests otherwise.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jun 22, 2017 8:47:46 GMT
There's a theory that SPOILER is actually there HELPING Missy redeem herself, or at least is supportive of the idea. It could explain why when we first meet Missy she's not plotting against the Doctor, she trying to be nice to him - because she knows at some point in her future the Doctor and her begin to rebuild their friendship, so she goes about attempting to make it happen. The photo in the Digital Spy article suggests otherwise. A single out on context photo suggests nothing.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 22, 2017 9:02:41 GMT
The photo in the Digital Spy article suggests otherwise. A single out on context photo suggests nothing. The photo shows Missy and the Master have teamed up with the Mondasian Cybermen.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jun 22, 2017 9:16:02 GMT
A single out on context photo suggests nothing. The photo shows Missy and the Master have teamed up with the Mondasian Cybermen. No, the shows Michelle Gomez and John Simm standing next to someone in a Cybermen costume. now, that could mean there is a scene where Missy and the Master smugly do something with a Cyberman, but it means precisely nothing.
Maybe the Masters ally themselves with the Cybermen and later betray them in order to survive. maybe the Masters have betrayed the Doctor because a Dalek can't change its bumps. But it's a single photo. Without context. it means nothing. Unless, of course, I missed the story where the sixth Doctor clowned around in the rain with a colourful umbrella, or where a short haired eighth Doctor offered a Crystal to someone, or the twelfth Doctor, a barefoot Clara a Dalek and a Cyberman crossed Abbey Road.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jun 22, 2017 9:21:37 GMT
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 22, 2017 10:01:24 GMT
The photo shows Missy and the Master have teamed up with the Mondasian Cybermen. No, the shows Michelle Gomez and John Simm standing next to someone in a Cybermen costume. Whilst looking smug.
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