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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jun 22, 2017 10:02:50 GMT
And? It's hard for people to not look smug when smiling with a goatee.
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Post by sherlock on Jun 22, 2017 10:16:25 GMT
No, the shows Michelle Gomez and John Simm standing next to someone in a Cybermen costume. Whilst looking smug. When doesn't the Master look smug? He/she basically has smug as their standard expression.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 22, 2017 10:34:43 GMT
When doesn't the Master look smug? He/she basically has smug as their standard expression. It's an evil smug.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Jun 22, 2017 11:00:58 GMT
You know...
Thinking the unthinkable
Maybe she is sorry...
It's how moff thinks.
And the other masters inside her are just angry with her.
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Post by acousticwolf on Jun 22, 2017 11:03:10 GMT
You know... Thinking the unthinkable Maybe she is sorry... It's how moff thinks. And the other masters inside her are just angry with her. Also, there is a precedence - the Eleven aren't all bad are they? Perhaps Big Finish just got in first ... Cheers Tony
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Jun 22, 2017 11:05:53 GMT
Is Missy. .. octavious?
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 22, 2017 11:08:52 GMT
You know... Thinking the unthinkable Maybe she is sorry... It's how moff thinks. And the other masters inside her are just angry with her. Also, there is a precedence - the Eleven aren't all bad are they? Perhaps Big Finish just got in first ... Cheers Tony Yeah, maybe they did... Hang on, didn't they also release a story called The Two Masters last year? No, I must be imagining things...
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Post by muckypup on Jun 22, 2017 11:24:24 GMT
There is no redemption of the master.......
He she is a mass murderer on an epic level, just exterminate and be done.
Bad will always be bad, just let them be bad, the rest is just smoke screen
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Post by theotherjosh on Jun 23, 2017 21:26:23 GMT
I do believe in redemption, even of the blackest villains, but not a quick and easy one like Moffat seems to be setting up. You've got to work for it. You've got to make amends. No feeling sorry for a little bit and then wiping everything clean with one dramatic gesture.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 21:44:27 GMT
I do believe in redemption, even of the blackest villains, but not a quick and easy one like Moffat seems to be setting up. You've got to work for it. You've got to make amends. No feeling sorry for a little bit and then wiping everything clean with one dramatic gesture. I'll take the novel path of waiting to see the episodes before criticising how Moffat handles them. Seriously though, it may be "quick" in terms of screen time but I'm not sure you're taking into account that Missy's been holed up in than vault for a long, long time. It's not as though, a la Series 9, Missy has just arrived on the scene with an agenda. The Doctor's had her under guard for decades. Not "a little bit".
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Post by theotherjosh on Jun 23, 2017 21:53:05 GMT
I'll take the novel path of waiting to see the episodes before criticising how Moffat handles them. That's fine. It's not like you have seven years of him doing the exact same thing to extrapolate from. Hey, if I'm wrong, no one will be happier than I will. Moffat, like any writer, has certain tropes to which he likes to return and I doubt he's going to surprise me at this late date. Seriously though, it may be "quick" in terms of screen time but I'm not sure you're taking into account that Missy's been holed up in than vault for a long, long time. It's not as though, a la Series 9, Missy has just arrived on the scene with an agenda. The Doctor's had her under guard for decades. Not "a little bit". Yeah, but I don't think "feeling really bad" and "thinking about what you've done" are part of the process of atonement. They're just necessary preliminaries to begin it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 22:03:54 GMT
Absolutely - we've got loads of Moff finales to go by...and if I get the writing of Heaven Sent/Hell Bent, or The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang , his first and most recent finales (and decidedly not "doing the exact same thing" as each other)...I'll be thrilled beyond belief.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 22:09:31 GMT
You know... Thinking the unthinkable Maybe she is sorry... It's how moff thinks. And the other masters inside her are just angry with her. Also, there is a precedence - the Eleven aren't all bad are they? Perhaps Big Finish just got in first ... Cheers Tony Not sure they'd be the same thing regardless.Having a "good" incarnation out of step with the others is one thing, but Missy plainly hasn't been that. She slaughtered Osgood just because she could and UNIT soldiers in Spain just to annoy Clara. Missy's nurture rather than the Eleven's nature. I'm sure there's much more to come and even if Missy reverts tomorrow...we've still got another episode for her to change again. I think she may end updoing the wrong thing for what she sees as good reasons. Or, most likely as she said back in Death In Heaven "Did I mention? BANANAS".
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Post by number13 on Jun 23, 2017 23:31:27 GMT
I have to say I'm both excited and nervous about the two-part finale. There is recent form to go by. The gripping, edgy 'Dark Water' - followed by the tedious CGI-fest that was 'Death in Heaven' with the disgustingly disrespectful 'cyber-Brig'. and The fabulous 'Heaven Sent' - followed by the episode which I'm still trying to tell myself never happened. You know, the one where the Doctor commits murder to liven the plot up a bit? (Your views may vary! ) As for Missy, a convenient redemption would be difficult to swallow given the Masters'/Missy's long history - but I think we know that continuity will bow to convenience. And as said above, maybe this incarnation has views unstable enough to allow a practical (if not philosophical) redemption. Missy does not have to become 'good' in order to end as the effective heroine who saves the Doctor and the world/Universe. For example, she may have grown to hate her previous incarnation enough to make 'doing good' the best option for defeating him and creating her. Or she may be so jealous of his latest scheme's imminent success that she foils it even at the cost of her own incarnation.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 24, 2017 8:43:05 GMT
Also, there is a precedence - the Eleven aren't all bad are they? Perhaps Big Finish just got in first ... Cheers Tony Not sure they'd be the same thing regardless.Having a "good" incarnation out of step with the others is one thing, but Missy plainly hasn't been that. She slaughtered Osgood just because she could and UNIT soldiers in Spain just to annoy Clara. Missy's nurture rather than the Eleven's nature. I'm sure there's much more to come and even if Missy reverts tomorrow...we've still got another episode for her to change again. I think she may end updoing the wrong thing for what she sees as good reasons. Or, most likely as she said back in Death In Heaven "Did I mention? BANANAS". I think Missy is most likely playing the Doctor. She knows the Doctor's greatest weakness is compassion and hope, and she's playing it against him. A big character flaw of this Doctor is that he's also reckless. In Hell Bent he extracts Clara from her death without even thinking of the consequences it might have if something happened to her before she returned to her Trap Street death. In this case the Doctor is being reckless in that he is putting too much trust in Missy, letting her carry out TARDIS maintenance and this week take his place on a distress call with Bill and Nardole as her companions.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 25, 2017 12:03:35 GMT
And now, after the end of World Enough and Time?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 25, 2017 12:27:29 GMT
And now, after the end of World Enough and Time? I'm surprised that Missy didn't seem to be playing the Doctor, and was actually helping him into John Simm's Master revealed himself. I thought the Doctor's reckless actions in testing Missy would have had consequences.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 18:55:27 GMT
And now, how are people feeling after the end of Eaters? I wouldn't be shocked if she killed Simm and creates herself in effect. Yay.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 6:40:31 GMT
Well when we first found this arc was about Missy's redemption I expected it to be rubbish.
It was beautiful.
And not only did it redeem the character, it redeemed the character. What I mean is that I've never understood Missy and what she was trying to achieve. Now we've seen this we can extrapolate to understand why Missy does all the she has done over the last three seasons.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 2, 2017 9:07:53 GMT
Well when we first found this arc was about Missy's redemption I expected it to be rubbish. It was beautiful. And not only did it redeem the character, it redeemed the character. What I mean is that I've never understood Missy and what she was trying to achieve. Now we've seen this we can extrapolate to understand why Missy does all the she has done over the last three seasons. I agree. I thought there was no way Missy was turning good but I'm glad I was wrong. It worked so much better than had it been a simple 'HA HA HA HA HA! I was playing you all along!'. It was pretty tragic when she was going to stand with the Doctor but Simm killed her before she got to him.
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