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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 23, 2017 22:08:10 GMT
After watching the trailer for this year's Christmas Special Twice Upon A Time, I'm completely baffled as to why the First Doctor is back at Christmas.
I don't have a problem with David Bradley as the First Doctor (he does an amazing Hartnell) and it looks like it could be a decent episode in its own right...but as a swansong for 12, it looks more like a celebration of 1's era.
I mean, yes: you have Bill. But you also have Polly, and the entire episode looks as though it's based on why 1 disappears in The Tenth Planet Episode 3.
I was hoping Christmas would be a Doctor Who take on It's A Wonderful Life because that would explain why 1 needs to be in the narrative. Instead it looks like we're getting a standard Multi-Doctor episode six years before the next one is due (2023)...only the focus is the First Doctor, not the Twelfth.
It's like the BBC are worried Peter Capaldi's Doctor isn't popular enough to attract viewers purely on the basis that it is his regeneration story, so they're making it a Multi-Doctor so it is easier to sell to the Christmas Day audience.
Poor Peter Capaldi isn't getting a swansong, he's having to make do with somebody else's...even though that incarnation had his fifty one years ago already.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 22:14:14 GMT
Don't care. As long as it's good, that is. I mean, considering the fact this is the last male Doctor story, potentially forevermrore, and some people's potential last story whilst they're on board with the show, it's just got to be good.
Bare in mind, though, that The Tenth Planet was a pretty weak as far as a departure for a Doctor goes. That's probably one of the reasons they're doing this.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 23, 2017 22:33:53 GMT
My understanding was it takes place in the final moments of The Tenth Planet Part 4, not Part 3. Isn't the Doctor unconscious in Part 3, rather than disappearing (also didn't a Big Finish already explain what he was doing whilst he was unconscious)? In Part 4 he leaves the base and I don't think he's seen again till Ben and Polly bang on the TARDIS doors, so there is a gap where he could come across his future self in The Doctor Falls.
As for the focus being on the First Doctor rather than the Twelfth, well I hope that's not the case as it's Capaldi's last one. I certainly don't think it's the case the BBC were worried Capaldi alone would fail to draw viewers. Moffat's long said he thought it'd be interesting to unite the latest and first Doctors, and given this allows a direct contrast not seen in the show before (two Doctors both on the verge of regenerating), I'd say it's a creative choice.
It's shaping up to be a very different regeneration story. We've already seen Twelfth's finest hour, giving his life for the colonists, so this gives an entire episode to dedicate to his rebirth.
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Post by number13 on Jul 23, 2017 22:58:50 GMT
That's right, the First Doctor 'disappears' at the very end of Episode 4 of 'The Tenth Planet' in the mother/father of all cliffhangers, when nobody knew regeneration was possible. However, most unfortunately, that is the only clip that remains - the rest of that episode has disappeared for real. The Doctor regenerates alone and only reappears to Polly and Ben in Episode 1 of 'The Power of the Daleks' - by drawing back the hood of the cloak to reveal the new Doctor's face... (Seen that done anywhere else?) (I have never seen a "a standard Multi-Doctor episode", I've only seen memorable ones and if as part of this one they want to revisit and honour The Original, that is fine by me.)
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 23, 2017 23:05:25 GMT
Well, considering we are working off a minute's worth of footage that also has to show off Gatiss & Mackie, I would be surprised if anyone would know why the 1st Doctor is there. It is kind of why a person would want to watch the episode to find out, right?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 2:30:03 GMT
I'm a bit wary... I'll just say that much, it's only a minute of footage. It certainly looks good, but I was probably one of the very few who wasn't impressed with The Day of the Doctor, so tampering with the First Doctor is a bit like writing in felt tip on the sacred idol for me.
"Ooh! Ah!" *hurried whisper* "No, what are you doing?! Eek! I-- Oh, dear..."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 5:59:07 GMT
I'm a bit wary... I'll just say that much, it's only a minute of footage. It certainly looks good, but I was probably one of the very few who wasn't impressed with The Day of the Doctor, so tampering with the First Doctor is a bit like writing in felt tip on the sacred idol for me. "Ooh! Ah!" *hurried whisper* "No, what are you doing?! Eek! I-- Oh, dear..." There were a huge swathe of people who didn't like Day of the Doctor. However, I would guess the first Doctor is in this because he's Capaldi's favourite and it's a treat for him to het a multi-doctor story with his childhood hero.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2017 6:41:51 GMT
I'm a bit wary... I'll just say that much, it's only a minute of footage. It certainly looks good, but I was probably one of the very few who wasn't impressed with The Day of the Doctor, so tampering with the First Doctor is a bit like writing in felt tip on the sacred idol for me. "Ooh! Ah!" *hurried whisper* "No, what are you doing?! Eek! I-- Oh, dear..." There were a huge swathe of people who didn't like Day of the Doctor. However, I would guess the first Doctor is in this because he's Capaldi's favourite and it's a treat for him to het a multi-doctor story with his childhood hero. Huh. Certainly doesn't feel like it. Still, I don't feel jilted, I had a lot of fun with Hunters of the Burning Stone in the comics. Everything I was looking for in an anniversary special and I didn't even know it. With Gatiss guest starring, I'd say that's almost a certainty. It'll be a very fannish final hurrah for the production team, I feel. Something they can have fun with before they go and that's by no means a bad thing.
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shutupbanks
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There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jul 24, 2017 10:19:41 GMT
I've always found the Christmas stories to be a bit of fun and slightly different in tone to the rest of the series - I mean, they're Christmas Specials, ffs. They aren't ever going to be Citizen Kane, but nor have any of them been Plan 9 From Outer Space.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 24, 2017 13:17:43 GMT
. I certainly don't think it's the case the BBC were worried Capaldi alone would fail to draw viewers. I don't see what other reason the BBC would have to make Peter Capaldi's swansong a Multi-Doctor story instead of a fitting departure story for the 12th Doctor. Peter Capaldi's Doctor has had less viewers overall than the previous Doctor Matt Smith.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 24, 2017 13:28:02 GMT
. I certainly don't think it's the case the BBC were worried Capaldi alone would fail to draw viewers. I don't see what other reason the BBC would have to make Peter Capaldi's swansong a Multi-Doctor story instead of a fitting departure story for the 12th Doctor. Peter Capaldi's Doctor has had less viewers overall than the previous Doctor Matt Smith. It's not the BBC's decision. It's Moffat's and he's been literally saying for years teaming up the first and latest Doctors would be the most interesting multi-Doctor scenario. Maybe, just maybe he thinks it will be a good story. And just maybe he may be right. Also we've already seen the Twelfth Doctor's finest hour and sacrifice in The Doctor Falls. The Christmas special needn't be about his departure, but rather the new beginning offered by regeneration and persuading him to embrace it (he's gonna need some persuading based on The Doctor Falls' ending). If it does that it can set itself apart from other regeneration stories, which have all focused on the death of the Doctor. And hopefully in doing so it can give Capaldi a fine ending.
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Post by jasonward on Jul 24, 2017 13:44:36 GMT
. I certainly don't think it's the case the BBC were worried Capaldi alone would fail to draw viewers. I don't see what other reason the BBC would have to make Peter Capaldi's swansong a Multi-Doctor story instead of a fitting departure story for the 12th Doctor. Peter Capaldi's Doctor has had less viewers overall than the previous Doctor Matt Smith. Why on earth would any story be made because it's "a fitting departure story"? I'm not saying a story should not be that, but surely above all else the aim is to tell a story that captivates people, entertains them, draws them in, makes them want to watch more? Anyway, "a fitting departure story" is something I think it judged with time, set out too strongly to do it and you'll probably blow it.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 24, 2017 13:47:57 GMT
I don't see what other reason the BBC would have to make Peter Capaldi's swansong a Multi-Doctor story instead of a fitting departure story for the 12th Doctor. Peter Capaldi's Doctor has had less viewers overall than the previous Doctor Matt Smith. It's not the BBC's decision. It's Moffat's and he's been literally saying for years teaming up the first and latest Doctors would be the most interesting multi-Doctor scenario. Maybe, just maybe he thinks it will be a good story. And just maybe he may be right. Also we've already seen the Twelfth Doctor's finest hour and sacrifice in The Doctor Falls. The Christmas special needn't be about his departure, but rather the new beginning offered by regeneration and persuading him to embrace it (he's gonna need some persuading based on The Doctor Falls' ending). If it does that it can set itself apart from other regeneration stories, which have all focused on the death of the Doctor. And hopefully in doing so it can give Capaldi a fine ending. Multi-Doctor stories should be kept strictly for anniversaries. The Two Doctors should never have happened because it wasn't an anniversary. The only exception is if there's a narrative reason as to why the Doctors meet now and not in 2023. Given that this doesn't appear to be a Doctor Who version of It's A Wonderful Life though (which would have been amazing), it's starting to look like 1 is taking over 12's swansong.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 24, 2017 13:49:01 GMT
I don't see what other reason the BBC would have to make Peter Capaldi's swansong a Multi-Doctor story instead of a fitting departure story for the 12th Doctor. Peter Capaldi's Doctor has had less viewers overall than the previous Doctor Matt Smith. Why on earth would any story be made because it's "a fitting departure story"? That's what regeneration stories are supposed to be.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 24, 2017 13:52:00 GMT
Multi-Doctor stories should be kept strictly for anniversaries. The Two Doctors should never have happened because it wasn't an anniversary. I couldn't even begin to agree with you there. I am SO glad that The Two Doctors happened, anniversary or not.
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Post by jasonward on Jul 24, 2017 13:55:12 GMT
Why on earth would any story be made because it's "a fitting departure story"? That's what regeneration stories are supposed to be. Are they? Says who?
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Post by sherlock on Jul 24, 2017 13:58:55 GMT
It's not the BBC's decision. It's Moffat's and he's been literally saying for years teaming up the first and latest Doctors would be the most interesting multi-Doctor scenario. Maybe, just maybe he thinks it will be a good story. And just maybe he may be right. Also we've already seen the Twelfth Doctor's finest hour and sacrifice in The Doctor Falls. The Christmas special needn't be about his departure, but rather the new beginning offered by regeneration and persuading him to embrace it (he's gonna need some persuading based on The Doctor Falls' ending). If it does that it can set itself apart from other regeneration stories, which have all focused on the death of the Doctor. And hopefully in doing so it can give Capaldi a fine ending. Multi-Doctor stories should be kept strictly for anniversaries. The Two Doctors should never have happened because it wasn't an anniversary. The only exception is if there's a narrative reason as to why the Doctors meet now and not in 2023. Given that this doesn't appear to be a Doctor Who version of It's A Wonderful Life though (which would have been amazing), it's starting to look like 1 is taking over 12's swansong. I don't see why multi-Doctor stories are limited to anniversaries. Big Finish did The Sirens of Time and The Four Doctors years away from anniversaries. We've just had one trailer to base this on and I highly doubt Moffat will allow Capaldi to be overshadowed in his last story.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 24, 2017 14:00:49 GMT
That's what regeneration stories are supposed to be. Are they? Says who? Look at any regeneration story. They are devised as fitting departure stories.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 24, 2017 14:01:47 GMT
Multi-Doctor stories should be kept strictly for anniversaries. The Two Doctors should never have happened because it wasn't an anniversary. The only exception is if there's a narrative reason as to why the Doctors meet now and not in 2023. Given that this doesn't appear to be a Doctor Who version of It's A Wonderful Life though (which would have been amazing), it's starting to look like 1 is taking over 12's swansong. I don't see why multi-Doctor stories are limited to anniversaries. Big Finish did The Sirens of Time and The Four Doctors years away from anniversaries. We've just had one trailer to base this on and I highly doubt Moffat will allow Capaldi to be overshadowed in his last story. It lessens the impact if you get a Multi-Doctor story before an anniversary (more so on TV).
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Post by jasonward on Jul 24, 2017 14:12:48 GMT
Look at any regeneration story. They are devised as fitting departure stories. 1) Were they? I think that's your interpretation. 6 and 7 departure stories were not at all fitting, and 4's just seemed random to me, despite the build up, 5 was perhaps "fitting", 8's was very cool after all that time, but I don't see how it was fitting, 9th death story was for me all about Rose, not him, etc etc 2) But even if they were, it's not a rule 3) Who says this story won't be?
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