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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 14:22:12 GMT
I actually think they are going the „event“ route with the main range this year. This is why they wait with announcements since they want maximum attention and impact and therefore trigger impulse buy. I think we are in for a few treats this year. 13 events per year could be hard to sustain. I think any events are likely to be quarterly and relate to the trilogies rather than unique for each MR release - like "Kamelion's debut trilogy", "Peri coming back", "Magg's joining McCoy" etc in 2019. To add to the ongoing discussion; It's perhaps true that the biggest BF events now (and thus the covers for Vortex and much of the PR) goes to more high profile boxset releases not the Main (Sorry "Monthly" ) Range but I think that's at least partially as the MR is built on a subscriber model, a lot of us pay up literally years in advance before scripts are written much less news announced so a lot of MR revenue takes care of itself somewhat wheras with the boxsets you have to sell every new range, subrange and box on it's own merits so they do get something of the more high profile treatment as they need to be "sold" more than releases a lot of subbers have paid for anyway. This is a result no doubt of being a long time listener and subscriber but to me it IS still the Main Range and it's the backbone of BF despite digging a lot of boxsets and other side and spin-off ranges. I do feel quite nostalgic for the days where there was an MR a month, a Benny and eventually a Companion Chronicle and that was it. It felt like everything sunk in a lot more and I had time to digest stories a lot more when there was 2 or 3 hours of material a month than now when there are not just a lot more releases but a lot months with multiple boxsets with 4 hours of story each on top of the MRs, EAs, CCs, STs etc and that's just on the Who front, before spinoffs and other ranges. woe betide anyone not staying current as the backlog becomes a deluge in just a few months. I honestly can't fathom how a new listener could ever catch up - just doing the new releases is time consuming enough.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 12, 2020 14:23:56 GMT
I actually think they are going the „event“ route with the main range this year. This is why they wait with announcements since they want maximum attention and impact and therefore trigger impulse buy. I think we are in for a few treats this year. 13 events per year could be hard to sustain. I do not mean that they all will be events. Only that there will be events. I would already be happy with a couple.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 14:50:10 GMT
13 events per year could be hard to sustain. I do not mean that they all will be events. Only that there will be events. I would already be happy with a couple. Since the boxset era of BF really kicked in post-Dark Eyes in 2012, I can't think of any years of the MR where there haven't been at least a few pretty big events - from new companions, to trilogies we wouldn't expect, actors returning we didn't think would do, new incarnations of characters and monsters, sequels and prequels to popular stories. Everyone's mileage and interest will vary but I honestly can't think of the last time the MR didn't have at least some notable events in any given year. Though some were more interesting in idea than execution, granted.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 15:05:09 GMT
13 events per year could be hard to sustain. I think any events are likely to be quarterly and relate to the trilogies rather than unique for each MR release - like "Kamelion's debut trilogy", "Peri coming back", "Magg's joining McCoy" etc in 2019. To add to the ongoing discussion; It's perhaps true that the biggest BF events now (and thus the covers for Vortex and much of the PR) goes to more high profile boxset releases not the Main (Sorry "Monthly" ) Range but I think that's at least partially as the MR is built on a subscriber model, a lot of us pay up literally years in advance before scripts are written much less news announced so a lot of MR revenue takes care of itself somewhat wheras with the boxsets you have to sell every new range, subrange and box on it's own merits so they do get something of the more high profile treatment as they need to be "sold" more than releases a lot of subbers have paid for anyway. This is a result no doubt of being a long time listener and subscriber but to me it IS still the Main Range and it's the backbone of BF despite digging a lot of boxsets and other side and spin-off ranges. I do feel quite nostalgic for the days where there was an MR a month, a Benny and eventually a Companion Chronicle and that was it. It felt like everything sunk in a lot more and I had time to digest stories a lot more when there was 2 or 3 hours of material a month than now when there are not just a lot more releases but a lot months with multiple boxsets with 4 hours of story each on top of the MRs, EAs, CCs, STs etc and that's just on the Who front, before spinoffs and other ranges. woe betide anyone not staying current as the backlog becomes a deluge in just a few months. I honestly can't fathom how a new listener could ever catch up - just doing the new releases is time consuming enough. As the young 'uns say - this^.
A similar point was made by Nick in the email section of the latest podcast, somewhat surprisingly, I maght add. There's 'too much' stuff for everything to get a look in. Having said that, as someone who dragged himself through the wilderness years with barely a Dimension in Time, it's a great problem to have.
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Jan 12, 2020 15:46:23 GMT
I'm one of the woe betide brigade and the not-buying-everything as soon as it comes out tactic works fine for me. It means I always have a very healthy % of BF stuff that I need to buy and im in no rush.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 16:51:45 GMT
I'm one of the woe betide brigade and the not-buying-everything as soon as it comes out tactic works fine for me. It means I always have a very healthy % of BF stuff that I need to buy and im in no rush. It wasn't intended as any sort of criticism of listeners in the slightest, just a statement of how far BF's output has come from one or two a month to a point now that anyone coming on board nowadays would have to listen to a lot every month just to keep up. But more aptly to actually catch up - as many would like to do - and listen to the entire BF Who collection would mean sourcing over 800 Doctor Who stories (and that's just the stories - a lot of those of course with 2-4 episodes inside them putting the figure well into into the thousands in terms of number episodes) - and that's before listening to a single title from a spinoff range like Jago and Litefoot, Benny, River, UNIT, Torchwood etc or other non-Who ranges like Blake's 7 or Dark Shadows. And they'd have to still fit in the new titles as they drop. A mammoth task doesn't even begin to cover it. Again, more a point about the exponential output growth than a criticism of anyone not keeping up!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 16:55:28 GMT
I'm one of the woe betide brigade and the not-buying-everything as soon as it comes out tactic works fine for me. It means I always have a very healthy % of BF stuff that I need to buy and im in no rush. Gaps in nearly all the ranges I've dipped into, a Monthly Adventures collection that's riddled with more holes than a swiss cheese and the likelihood of plugging those holes pretty remote for a good few years...but like ljwilson I'm in no hurry to get there. The fun is in the journey after all...😊
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Jan 12, 2020 17:42:08 GMT
I'm one of the woe betide brigade and the not-buying-everything as soon as it comes out tactic works fine for me. It means I always have a very healthy % of BF stuff that I need to buy and im in no rush. It wasn't intended as any sort of criticism of listeners in the slightest, just a statement of how far BF's output has come from one or two a month to a point now that anyone coming on board nowadays would have to listen to a lot every month just to keep up. But more aptly to actually catch up - as many would like to do - and listen to the entire BF Who collection would mean sourcing over 800 Doctor Who stories (and that's just the stories - a lot of those of course with 2-4 episodes inside them putting the figure well into into the thousands in terms of number episodes) - and that's before listening to a single title from a spinoff range like Jago and Litefoot, Benny, River, UNIT, Torchwood etc or other non-Who ranges like Blake's 7 or Dark Shadows. And they'd have to still fit in the new titles as they drop. A mammoth task doesn't even begin to cover it. Again, more a point about the exponential output growth than a criticism of anyone not keeping up! I didn't think it was criticism Davy! I rarely buy new BF releases which means I've banked loads for the future. Not to mention I don't watch DW, so the nu-Who releases don't interest me that much.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 13, 2020 10:36:09 GMT
... The way he [Nick] talked about there not really being any rationale for the way 5/6/7 are lumped together in one range while other Docs have their own range made me think we would see the MR rebranded as 5DAs, 6DAs and 7DAs and the numbering restarted at 1.1, but over the course of the year there would still be one release per month, ... It will be a shame if we don't get as far as (for instance) MR 369 The Blood of the Zranbi, I quite like the ridiculous amount of stories we have and want it to continue. If (very hypothetically) they did do something like that, they could still do reversible back covers on the CDs so you would have a choice of displaying it on your shelf as 6DA 13.7 or MR 369
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 13:31:20 GMT
Nick Briggs's comments in the new podcast about different ranges competing against each other for the same market suggests to me (if not to anybody at BF) that we might all be better off if other Doctors occasionally cropped up in the two-CD trilogy format. That's the point for me, not the writers angle, there was nothing stopping that from happening. Having other Doctors crop up in the four part two CD monthly format was something that Big Finish chose not to do, then Nick says there's no rationale for Five, Six and Seven to be be lumped together in one range. It was they way they chose to do business! Eight was part of the Doctor Who main range for ten years, whilst Four did have a MR bonus story, so throwing one-off stories with other Doctors in now and again would have worked fine and all things being equal might have meant that there was more life in Five, Six and Seven as they'd have monthly stories in the bank for a few more years to come whilst the people who get tired of the Five, Six, Seven main range repetition would have had a bit of variety.
Everything is easy in hindsight of course but I wouldn't have put numbers on the spines of the MR stories either, (or maybe a number on one end and the other end blank, as of course a CD has two ends.) I do accept that it makes the MR look cumbersome for any newbies just getting in to BF. Obviously back in 1999 nobody knew that the monthly Doctor Who stories would reach 100 let alone 260 odd. Single releases that could be picked in any order is the way that the MR should be enjoyed - and on the whole can be - but starting at 259 and working back could seem like a tiring pastime to be avoided for anyone just coming across Big Finish and their Classic Doctors range of stories. Which leads us to where we are today...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 13:56:38 GMT
Nick Briggs's comments in the new podcast about different ranges competing against each other for the same market suggests to me (if not to anybody at BF) that we might all be better off if other Doctors occasionally cropped up in the two-CD trilogy format. That's the point for me, not the writers angle, there was nothing stopping that from happening. Having other Doctors crop up in the four part two CD monthly format was something that Big Finish chose not to do, then Nick says there's no rationale for Five, Six and Seven to be be lumped together in one range. It was they way they chose to do business! Eight was part of the Doctor Who main range for ten years, whilst Four did have a MR bonus story, so throwing one-off stories with other Doctors in now and again would have worked fine and all things being equal might have meant that there was more life in Five, Six and Seven as they'd have monthly stories in the bank for a few more years to come whilst the people who get tired of the Five, Six, Seven main range repetition would have had a bit of variety.
Everything is easy in hindsight of course but I wouldn't have put numbers on the spines of the MR stories either, (or maybe a number on one end and the other end blank, as of course a CD has two ends.) I do accept that it makes the MR look cumbersome for any newbies just getting in to BF. Obviously back in 1999 nobody knew that the monthly Doctor Who stories would reach 100 let alone 260 odd. Single releases that could be picked in any order is the way that the MR should be enjoyed - and on the whole can be - but starting at 259 and working back could seem like a tiring pastime to be avoided for anyone just coming across Big Finish and their Classic Doctors range of stories. Which leads us to where we are today...
Yes, that stuck out to me too - when that's been raised in the past ("Why can't I sub for 12 numerical releases from one Doctor rather than 12 in numerical order from all 3?) the answer for years and years on both the podcast and Vortex has always been its the only sustainable model as picking and choosing Doctors would mean some would be less profitable than others and we never want to see a time where BF are saying, say ,"McCoy isn't making enough, better cut back" - so every subscriber subsiding all the Docs made it even. To just now act like there was no good reason to have that model at all is more than a little odd. They knew Tom was gonna be a licence to print money anyway so getting him his own range was a no-brainer. No-one expected him to fold into the MR. Ditto McGann - I mean, he was ready to quit BF before the 8DAs came along giving him his own range that was a real equivalent of what his TV series could have been if directly preceding New Who. It's kinda lost now in the McGann boxset era but that was kinda the point of the 8DAs in the first place, being BF's version of the RTD era in essence, short 45min eps with a mix of standalones and arcs, complete with big season finales.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 13, 2020 14:17:53 GMT
That's the point for me, not the writers angle, there was nothing stopping that from happening. Having other Doctors crop up in the four part two CD monthly format was something that Big Finish chose not to do, then Nick says there's no rationale for Five, Six and Seven to be be lumped together in one range. It was they way they chose to do business! Eight was part of the Doctor Who main range for ten years, whilst Four did have a MR bonus story, so throwing one-off stories with other Doctors in now and again would have worked fine and all things being equal might have meant that there was more life in Five, Six and Seven as they'd have monthly stories in the bank for a few more years to come whilst the people who get tired of the Five, Six, Seven main range repetition would have had a bit of variety.
Everything is easy in hindsight of course but I wouldn't have put numbers on the spines of the MR stories either, (or maybe a number on one end and the other end blank, as of course a CD has two ends.) I do accept that it makes the MR look cumbersome for any newbies just getting in to BF. Obviously back in 1999 nobody knew that the monthly Doctor Who stories would reach 100 let alone 260 odd. Single releases that could be picked in any order is the way that the MR should be enjoyed - and on the whole can be - but starting at 259 and working back could seem like a tiring pastime to be avoided for anyone just coming across Big Finish and their Classic Doctors range of stories. Which leads us to where we are today...
Yes, that stuck out to me too - when that's been raised in the past ("Why can't I sub for 12 numerical releases from one Doctor rather than 12 in numerical order from all 3?) the answer for years and years on both the podcast and Vortex has always been its the only sustainable model as picking and choosing Doctors would mean some would be less profitable than others and we never want to see a time where BF are saying, say ,"McCoy isn't making enough, better cut back" - so every subscriber subsiding all the Docs made it even. To just now act like there was no good reason to have that model at all is more than a little odd. They knew Tom was gonna be a licence to print money anyway so getting him his own range was a no-brainer. No-one expected him to fold into the MR. Ditto McGann - I mean, he was ready to quit BF before the 8DAs came along giving him his own range that was a real equivalent of what his TV series could have been if directly preceding New Who. It's kinda lost now in the McGann boxset era but that was kinda the point of the 8DAs in the first place, being BF's version of the RTD era in essence, short 45min eps with a mix of standalones and arcs, complete with big season finales. Interesting thought, I wonder which of the 3 Docs would be most at risk in this scenario?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 14:25:25 GMT
Yes, that stuck out to me too - when that's been raised in the past ("Why can't I sub for 12 numerical releases from one Doctor rather than 12 in numerical order from all 3?) the answer for years and years on both the podcast and Vortex has always been its the only sustainable model as picking and choosing Doctors would mean some would be less profitable than others and we never want to see a time where BF are saying, say ,"McCoy isn't making enough, better cut back" - so every subscriber subsiding all the Docs made it even. To just now act like there was no good reason to have that model at all is more than a little odd. They knew Tom was gonna be a licence to print money anyway so getting him his own range was a no-brainer. No-one expected him to fold into the MR. Ditto McGann - I mean, he was ready to quit BF before the 8DAs came along giving him his own range that was a real equivalent of what his TV series could have been if directly preceding New Who. It's kinda lost now in the McGann boxset era but that was kinda the point of the 8DAs in the first place, being BF's version of the RTD era in essence, short 45min eps with a mix of standalones and arcs, complete with big season finales. Interesting thought, I wonder which of the 3 Docs would be most at risk in this scenario? I guess the interesting thing following on from that would be...it could change a lot. On paper DW fans would imagine Davison would be a safer bet since he was a much bigger hit on TV but look what BF did with Colin and McCoy, arguably (and not always) they've had higher highs than Davison ever has. You can, in the Evelyn or Hex eras, find runs of 12 stories that are really something special. Likewise, I think older Nyssa by and large was a damp squib with some really sub-par stories. Yet in recent years I've tended to really like the Davison stuff while I'm kinda done with the Mel and Ace stuff. It'd require some real rethinking from BF over how to keep stagnation away or they could really damage sales of one of their mainstay Doctors over another. As Stevo says, it's kinda messy already and trying to change the model this far in would really be an ask.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 14:36:37 GMT
They knew Tom was gonna be a licence to print money anyway so getting him his own range was a no-brainer. No-one expected him to fold into the MR. Ditto McGann - I mean, he was ready to quit BF before the 8DAs came along giving him his own range that was a real equivalent of what his TV series could have been if directly preceding New Who. I didn't mind Four or Eight having a separate range. With Tom that was indeed a no brainer, plus the 8DA format worked really really well. (I preferred that format to the current box set format they have given McGann.) I just meant having those Doctors crop up in the MR with the traditional 4 x 25 minute format story - that the MR was generally using - from time to time, as a sample of those Doctors for people buying or subscribing to the Doctor Who main range. Especially as their own separate ranges didn't follow the traditional MR story format. It might have meant less Tom in his own range, maybe six stories instead of eight, or four stories instead of six, (or whatever) but it would have kept the MR as the flagship range showcasing the classic Doctors and their companions, which is what I see the MR as; classic era missing adventures. There would have been nothing to stop people buying the 4DA's or Eighth Doctor boxes, I just think one or two Four/Eight stories thrown in here and there each year might have worked to mix it up a bit and stop the MR going stale. Now you have the MR competing with every other Doctor Who box set as opposed to complimenting it.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 13, 2020 14:38:48 GMT
As Stevo says, it's kinda messy already and trying to change the model this far in would really be an ask. And when it does change I’m sure it will be done in the same thoughtful, well researched and carefully executed manner in which we have come to expect from Big Finish over the years. or Nick could just blurt it out on the podcast. 🤪
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 13, 2020 14:50:07 GMT
They knew Tom was gonna be a licence to print money anyway so getting him his own range was a no-brainer. No-one expected him to fold into the MR. Ditto McGann - I mean, he was ready to quit BF before the 8DAs came along giving him his own range that was a real equivalent of what his TV series could have been if directly preceding New Who. I didn't mind Four or Eight having a separate range. With Tom that was indeed a no brainer, plus the 8DA format worked really really well. (I preferred that format to the current box set format they have given McGann.) I just meant having those Doctors crop up in the MR with the traditional 4 x 25 minute format story - that the MR was generally using - from time to time, as a sample of those Doctors for people buying or subscribing to the Doctor Who main range. Especially as their own separate ranges didn't follow the traditional MR story format. It might have meant less Tom in his own range, maybe six stories instead of eight, or four stories instead of six, (or whatever) but it would have kept the MR as the flagship range showcasing the classic Doctors and their companions, which is what I see the MR as; classic era missing adventures. There would have been nothing to stop people buying the 4DA's or Eighth Doctor boxes, I just think one or two Four/Eight stories thrown in here and there each year might have worked to mix it up a bit and stop the MR going stale. Now you have the MR competing with every other Doctor Who box set as opposed to complimenting it.
One good thing about the MR is it keeps 5/6/7 in the 4 part format. My only gripe about the 4DAs was the 2 part format.
Now, in both cases, this seems to be changing in the last year or two.
Personally I'd like to see the MR revamp happen in such a way that it allows for more 6 parters - although I think it is highly unlikely. If there was to be any big move away from the 4 part format, it is likely to be towards NewSeries style 45 minute episodes
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 15:40:48 GMT
One good thing about the MR is it keeps 5/6/7 in the 4 part format. My only gripe about the 4DAs was the 2 part format. Yes, I agree. It's why I wouldn't have minded the odd traditional style Fourth Doctor story in the MR.
If there was to be any big move away from the 4 part format, it is likely to be towards NewSeries style 45 minute episodes Yeah, and that's what I wouldn't like to see.
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Post by Digi on Jan 13, 2020 16:05:13 GMT
Well, after all that....the next nine titles have been announced.
260. Dark Universe (Sylvester) 261. The Psychic Circus (Sylvester) 262. Subterfuge (Sylvester) 263. Cry of the Vultriss (Colin) 264. The Scorched Earth (Colin) 265. The Lovecraft Problem (Colin) 266. Time Apart (Peter) 267. Thin Time / Madquake (Peter) 268. The Last Resort (Peter) 269. Perils and Nightmares (Peter) 270. The Flying Dutchman / Displaced (Sylvester)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 16:11:26 GMT
Well, after all that....the next nine titles have been announced. The Lovecraft Problem - Sixie meets Howard and Cthulhu turns out to be a bit more than a fictional character? *fingers crossed* 😊
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 13, 2020 16:15:20 GMT
Well, after all that....the next nine titles have been announced. 260. Dark Universe (Sylvester) 261. The Psychic Circus (Sylvester) 262. Subterfuge (Sylvester) 263. Cry of the Vultriss (Colin) 264. The Scorched Earth (Colin) 265. The Lovecraft Problem (Colin) 266. Time Apart (Peter) 267. Thin Time / Madquake (Peter) 268. The Last Resort (Peter) 269. Perils and Nightmares (Peter) 270. The Flying Dutchman / Displaced (Sylvester) They've obviously been reading this thread ...
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