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Post by number13 on Jul 30, 2020 0:45:24 GMT
As a complete aside from what we are talking about, it is amazing just how often the universe is referred to as "creation" in Doctor Who. It's the kind of thing that once you start noticing, you just keep noticing more and more.
Agreed, it goes back through Who to the earliest days, then there is the later presence of the Guardians who seem to imply a 'cosmic plan' simply by their existence and in the new series, the 'armies of Light' and the beast who existed before Time ie. before the Big Bang, in 'The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit'. Of course my hypothetical example was referring to the relatively narrow scientific question of the evolution of life. The question of the creation of the Universe - and the laws of physics which underpin it - is another matter entirely.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 1:34:43 GMT
As a complete aside from what we are talking about, it is amazing just how often the universe is referred to as "creation" in Doctor Who. It's the kind of thing that once you start noticing, you just keep noticing more and more.
Agreed, it goes back through Who to the earliest days, then there is the later presence of the Guardians who seem to imply a 'cosmic plan' simply by their existence and in the new series, the 'armies of Light' and the beast who existed before Time ie. before the Big Bang, in 'The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit'. Of course my hypothetical example was referring to the relatively narrow scientific question of the evolution of life. The question of the creation of the Universe - and the laws of physics which underpin it - is another matter entirely.
See, that's interesting to me, I interpreted the term "creation" as being something larger than a single universe. More like, hmm... A description of all universes and everything that lay within and outside of them (planets, galaxies, the time vortex, the Web of Time, all of it). What's at stake when creation is mentioned is the characters' agency. Their ability (and the ability of everything else) to live, make choices and have those choices matter. Something the White Guardian threatens the Doctor with in The Ribos Operation. Nothing will happen to him if he refuses the quest. Absolutely nothing. Forever. Our universe before the Time Lords is a fascinating place. For all intents and purposes, a lot of it seemed to operate on dream logic and belief over immutable laws. If everyone on the planet, oh, Ttelequeq believed without reservation that their world was a cube, not a sphere, it would manifest as such. The world would fit the people, not the people fit the world. Hence it being populated by creatures like the growth-like Animus or the faith-repelled Fenric that thrived in that cosmos. In such a place, it paid to have a physical form that was malleable in the extreme and if you were unfortunate enough to be like the Gallifreyans, being at that stage of evolution that you don't have those abilities, you drew the short straw. That is until the Time Lords came along...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 8:28:56 GMT
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 30, 2020 8:36:18 GMT
(Hopefully this will be a positive..)
:-)
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 30, 2020 8:38:24 GMT
All's well that ends well
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 8:39:48 GMT
Perhaps they should rename the story The Lovecraft Conspiracy? Well it was first announced as The Lovecraft Problem, wasn't it? Ha! It was!
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 30, 2020 8:43:09 GMT
So when is Time Apart coming out 😃
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 30, 2020 8:48:59 GMT
There’s a line in the released version which isn’t in the 15 minute podcast tease, which pretty much tells you the reason for the delay.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 30, 2020 8:53:35 GMT
There’s a line in the released version which isn’t in the 15 minute podcast tease, which pretty much tells you the reason for the delay. Transcript? I don't listen to the podcast.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 30, 2020 9:04:33 GMT
There’s a line in the released version which isn’t in the 15 minute podcast tease, which pretty much tells you the reason for the delay. Transcript? I don't listen to the podcast. Basically they’ve added in a load of lines of the Doctor condemning Lovecraft, calling him a racist and a xenophobe and wanting to avoid his work. None of which (in the first fifteen minutes at least) were in the fifteen minute tease that was previously released.
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Post by grinch on Jul 30, 2020 9:06:34 GMT
Transcript? I don't listen to the podcast. Basically they’ve added in a load of lines of the Doctor condemning Lovecraft, calling him a racist and a xenophobe and wanting to avoid his work. None of which (in the first fifteen minutes at least) were in the fifteen minute tease that was previously released. Huh. Interesting. Thought they’d just add a disclaimer or something personally.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 30, 2020 9:19:33 GMT
Transcript? I don't listen to the podcast. Basically they’ve added in a load of lines of the Doctor condemning Lovecraft, calling him a racist and a xenophobe and wanting to avoid his work. None of which (in the first fifteen minutes at least) were in the fifteen minute tease that was previously released. Thank you for this.
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Post by number13 on Jul 30, 2020 10:26:37 GMT
Agreed, it goes back through Who to the earliest days, then there is the later presence of the Guardians who seem to imply a 'cosmic plan' simply by their existence and in the new series, the 'armies of Light' and the beast who existed before Time ie. before the Big Bang, in 'The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit'. Of course my hypothetical example was referring to the relatively narrow scientific question of the evolution of life. The question of the creation of the Universe - and the laws of physics which underpin it - is another matter entirely.
See, that's interesting to me, I interpreted the term "creation" as being something larger than a single universe. More like, hmm... A description of all universes and everything that lay within and outside of them (planets, galaxies, the time vortex, the Web of Time, all of it). What's at stake when creation is mentioned is the characters' agency. Their ability (and the ability of everything else) to live, make choices and have those choices matter. Something the White Guardian threatens the Doctor with in The Ribos Operation. Nothing will happen to him if he refuses the quest. Absolutely nothing. Forever. Our universe before the Time Lords is a fascinating place. For all intents and purposes, a lot of it seemed to operate on dream logic and belief over immutable laws. If everyone on the planet, oh, Ttelequeq believed without reservation that their world was a cube, not a sphere, it would manifest as such. The world would fit the people, not the people fit the world. Hence it being populated by creatures like the growth-like Animus or the faith-repelled Fenric that thrived in that cosmos. In such a place, it paid to have a physical form that was malleable in the extreme and if you were unfortunate enough to be like the Gallifreyans, being at that stage of evolution that you don't have those abilities, you drew the short straw. That is until the Time Lords came along... Oh well, other universes... I didn't try to tie them in because although we know that some exist as parts of the Whoniverse, we don't really know much about them do we? Except they can be varying sizes and relatively unstable/short-lived compared with our Whoniverse. So yes there's a lot of creation out there - and probably there is adjacent to / just a fraction off from the real Universe too, if the hints in (to me) incomprehensible multiverse theories of frontier science mean anything. Mind suitably boggled at the thought, as usual.
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Post by number13 on Jul 30, 2020 10:35:53 GMT
Transcript? I don't listen to the podcast. Basically they’ve added in a load of lines of the Doctor condemning Lovecraft, calling him a racist and a xenophobe and wanting to avoid his work. None of which (in the first fifteen minutes at least) were in the fifteen minute tease that was previously released. Thanks for this. (I only listened to one BF podcast once before giving up ) I'm rather surprised that this wasn't in the original script, considering what we heard about it dealing with Lovecraft the person as well as his literature. (And that this is Sixie and he's generally ready to tear a strip off people far less offensive than HPL.)
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Post by number13 on Jul 30, 2020 10:42:26 GMT
All's well that ends well So was it just a midsummer 30-nights' dream or much ado about nothing?
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Post by nitronine on Jul 30, 2020 10:49:34 GMT
Transcript? I don't listen to the podcast. Basically they’ve added in a load of lines of the Doctor condemning Lovecraft, calling him a racist and a xenophobe and wanting to avoid his work. None of which (in the first fifteen minutes at least) were in the fifteen minute tease that was previously released. I had thought that the Vortex interviews had mentioned that the examination of his views was already a major part of the story. I may be misremembering or had misread it but personally I think it’s good that they added it if it wasn’t in there before.
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Post by grinch on Jul 30, 2020 10:53:49 GMT
Basically they’ve added in a load of lines of the Doctor condemning Lovecraft, calling him a racist and a xenophobe and wanting to avoid his work. None of which (in the first fifteen minutes at least) were in the fifteen minute tease that was previously released. I had thought that the Vortex interviews had mentioned that the examination of his views was already a major part of the story. I may be misremembering or had misread it but personally I think it’s good that they added it if it wasn’t in there before. Yeah, it might actually improve the script to be honest. Especially considering the story apparently involves the Sixth Doctor literally diving into his psyche. The Doctor won’t agree with his views come the end of the tale I’d imagine but at least get a better understanding of the flawed individual Lovecraft was. Then again, this is coming from someone who has yet to listen to it so for all I know it could end with the Doctor literally knocking him out with a swift punch to the chops.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 30, 2020 11:01:47 GMT
Basically they’ve added in a load of lines of the Doctor condemning Lovecraft, calling him a racist and a xenophobe and wanting to avoid his work. None of which (in the first fifteen minutes at least) were in the fifteen minute tease that was previously released. Thanks for this. (I only listened to one BF podcast once before giving up ) I'm rather surprised that this wasn't in the original script, considering what we heard about it dealing with Lovecraft the person as well as his literature. (And that this is Sixie and he's generally ready to tear a strip off people far less offensive than HPL.) Yes. Especially given Rob Valentine's comments
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Post by number13 on Jul 30, 2020 11:03:19 GMT
'Time Apart' you have 18 hours and the clock is ticking...
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jul 30, 2020 11:09:45 GMT
Basically they’ve added in a load of lines of the Doctor condemning Lovecraft, calling him a racist and a xenophobe and wanting to avoid his work. None of which (in the first fifteen minutes at least) were in the fifteen minute tease that was previously released. I had thought that the Vortex interviews had mentioned that the examination of his views was already a major part of the story. I may be misremembering or had misread it but personally I think it’s good that they added it if it wasn’t in there before. I think it would be a mistake to assume that adding some lines means no similar lines were in there already.
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