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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 19, 2017 17:49:10 GMT
I was thinking about this because of the " Do I have the right" thread. Putting the ethics of the question aside for the moment, I think it's fair to say that the Doctor was not entirely successful in his mission in Genesis of the Daleks. I've read speculation that this attempt by the Time Lords amounted to the opening salvo of the Time War, which seems entirely possible. The question is in two parts 1.) Is there any other character (or other incarnation of the Doctor) who would do a better job? 2.) What does the ideal outcome look like for this character? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 18:16:17 GMT
1.) The Doctor is the Doctor. I believe they would all reach the same decision regardless of the incarnation.
2.) Plenty of sleepless nights.
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Post by mrperson on Dec 19, 2017 19:16:38 GMT
1. I think Seven would have less of an issue than others. Or War....I mean, he thought he'd wiped out all of the Daleks AND his people to boot. Maybe Nine. He was ready to wipe out the Earth to get them, after all.
2. Not quite as bad as 9-11's reaction to committing double-genocide.
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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 19, 2017 19:18:04 GMT
1.) The Doctor is the Doctor. I believe they would all reach the same decision regardless of the incarnation. 2.) Plenty of sleepless nights. I was more interested in the broader question of how each Doctor or other character would approach the mission, rather than what they would do if/when they got to the point when they had to make the choice about wiping out the Daleks. For instance, the Third or the Fifth Doctor (to say nothing of the Master) would approach the mission in such an entirely different fashion than it would unfold differently and such a dilemma might not even arise. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 21:27:09 GMT
Well, I'm sure The Master would approach it a bit differently, after all the Daleks 'executed' him following his trial on Skaro... so by stopping their creation he might feel he was doing his future self a favour! Beyond that I haven't given it much thought. (In other words, there's football on the TV so intellectual thinking about people's morals in a fictional TV show is off the agenda!)  |
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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 19, 2017 21:43:58 GMT
I was thinking about the Master. I think that he could pull off the mission (destroy or significantly delay the development of the Daleks) if he could stick to his goal, but we all know he's not going to do that. He's going to try to find some way of turning the situation to his advantage and he'll foil himself by overreaching.
How about that Abslom Daak though? It was the role he was born to play!
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shutupbanks
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There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Dec 20, 2017 0:28:07 GMT
Roj Blake would have done it in a flash: but then, he was willing to sacrifice millions of innocents to bring down the Federation. Wiping out a literal tinpot genocidal maniac species would be a doddle for him... if he was part of the canon, obvs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 1:37:14 GMT
1.) The Doctor is the Doctor. I believe they would all reach the same decision regardless of the incarnation. 2.) Plenty of sleepless nights. I was more interested in the broader question of how each Doctor or other character would approach the mission, rather than what they would do if/when they got to the point when they had to make the choice about wiping out the Daleks. For instance, the Third or the Fifth Doctor (to say nothing of the Master) would approach the mission in such an entirely different fashion than it would unfold differently and such a dilemma might not even arise. I had a thought about that. It would be a very different story if it involved the First Doctor because not only would he run the risk of capture by his People, but Genesis is also technically a historical story. Not one on Earth certainly, but here he has been tasked with tampering in the established history of another world. That's certainly going to give him pause, even if it is the Daleks. If it were done way back at the beginning of the show, the decision would likely (and rather frighteningly) be left largely up to Ian and Barbara: If it were Susan's departure story (i.e. the Fourth Doctor in this timeline is doing The Dalek Invasion of Earth), she may have been taken back home by the Time Lords as punishment for failing the mission. The farewell on the scanner being her slowly pulling away in the void outside, locked out of the ship by the force that sent them there. |
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Post by constonks on Dec 20, 2017 7:19:12 GMT
I once thought "if the Doctor had never left Gallifrey/had died in an early incarnation/remained in exile/etc. who would the Time Lords send to Skaro?"
And in my mind there was only one choice - someone uniquely suited to meddling in time. The Monk.
Although I expect he'd have turned the tables on the Time Lords and ended up partnering with Davros for some half-baked scheme.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Dec 20, 2017 7:37:04 GMT
I was thinking about the Master. I think that he could pull off the mission (destroy or significantly delay the development of the Daleks) if he could stick to his goal, but we all know he's not going to do that. He's going to try to find some way of turning the situation to his advantage and he'll foil himself by overreaching. How about that Abslom Daak though? It was the role he was born to play! The Master would kill Davros and take control of the facility himself. He'd steer the development of the Daleks to make his own army to at last bring peace and order to the universe – his peace and order, at any rate. Inevitably, the Daleks would betray him and he'd end up barely escaping, probably wounded to the point of regeneration and vowing revenge on the now much more powerful Daleks he's created who are swarming across the universe armed with knowledge of the future and Time Lord technology, threatening even Gallifrey. At that point, reluctant as he'd be, there's only one person he could call in to help, an old friend with a history of dealing with Daleks... |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 20, 2017 8:16:59 GMT
Missy would have completed the mission if the Time Lords transported her to Skaro during Series 10 when she wanted to be 'good'.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 20, 2017 9:20:49 GMT
The man in the bandolier stalked out of the labatory, stopping only to wipe something green off his boot.
He knelt, holding two wires scant millimetres apart. “Do I have the right?” He asked the air. The moment was pregnant with possibility.
The answer was obvious, he was a soldier sent on a mission. But.... why him? Why now? He could do it, he should do it. The chaos of the Time War undone in a stroke. Or would it be? The Dalek Time Agent he had dispatched indicated that the Daleks were aware of what was afoot, or at least wary of the possibility. Would he take that final step, end the Doctor forever only for it all to be for naught? Did he have the righ to end that legacy? For the final act of the Time War to be the final nail in the coffin of the Dcotor, all for the possibility of success, not the certainty? 900 years of doing the right thing, the moral thing... in the hands of an immoral killer, of a monster who should be all rights not care for that legacy. The Doctor wouldn’t do it, he was sure. “To think of all the good had had done, ended by a monster with a pair of wires.”
He took a deep breathe and to the sound of what seemed to be a half-dozen sighs he was sure was in his head..... he pulled the wires free from their explosives.
“No. Not here. Not now. I AM NOT YUPR PUPPET!” He shouted “DIRTY YOUR OWN DAMN HANDS!” He stalked off. No, he was not going to be their killer, not again.
No More.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 10:32:18 GMT
I think Man with Chips is an overlooked choice.
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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 20, 2017 13:22:08 GMT
I think The Three Doctors on Skaro would make for an interesting story. Instead of being gathered to deal with Omega, the three are dropped on Skaro. The Third Doctor does his action hero thing and becomes a charismatic resistance leader with the Thals. The Second Doctor mostly reprises the Fourth’s interaction with Davros and the First Doctor takes advantage of the distractions offered by the dandy and the clown to actually get things done. He sabotages the Dalek’s development without wiping them out entirely.
Or…we drop Omega into the mix instead of the Doctors. He’s there in all his shouty pope hat glory and the story is flipped on his side, with Davros desperately racing to complete his Daleks as a last ditch defense against this mad alien dropped in his midst.
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Post by constonks on Dec 20, 2017 22:03:08 GMT
Davros, convinced by the Time Lords of the Daleks' inevitable eventual treachery and destruction of the universe, goes back in time to stop himself from creating them.
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Post by 8doctormcgann on Dec 20, 2017 22:17:53 GMT
Davros, convinced by the Time Lords of the Daleks' inevitable eventual treachery and destruction of the universe, goes back in time to stop himself from creating them. Ooh, I want to see that. |
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Dec 21, 2017 6:04:19 GMT
I like these ideas so much that part of me thinks this should be the next Divergent Universe anthology.
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Post by masterdoctor on Dec 21, 2017 6:12:01 GMT
I like these ideas so much that part of me thinks this should be the next Divergent Universe anthology. I'll make sure to put onto the list. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 22:34:33 GMT
I like these ideas so much that part of me thinks this should be the next Divergent Universe anthology. I'll make sure to put onto the list. I was just thinking that it might be good to put forward a village-style proposal where all the stories are centred around a single location... This is waaaay better. If not an alt!One, I wouldn't mind tackling a version where the Delgado!Master is used: |
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Post by 8doctormcgann on Dec 21, 2017 22:43:00 GMT
I like these ideas so much that part of me thinks this should be the next Divergent Universe anthology. I'd be down for that (whether I'd try sumbit a story I don't know) |
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