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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 22:27:24 GMT
That is a lie. They do not take everything Clarkson said or did on Top Gear out of context, it is there on video in the archives to look at if anyone wants to use the context excuse! Oh & it is not hard to think of a word to substitute in that rhyme as there is an alternative non-racist version. But you will defend him to the bitter end I guess. I swear to God I hadn't even heard the racist version of the rhyme when the story broke - it was always "catch a tiger by the toe" when I was a kid. Clarkson's got kids - no way does he not know the "tiger" version. Sadly I used to hear the version with the N word when I was little but as you say, tiger is the common version used now. & has been for ages.
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Post by randomjc on Mar 9, 2018 22:31:12 GMT
Clarkson is a racist idiot. He isn't being a "naughty school kid" because even kids know that stuff is racist and horrible to say. And the kids who do say it get in trouble.
Even then, if the excuse for Clarkson is he's acting like a child, that's a poor excuse. He's a grown adult, he should behave like one.
Edit: it's also the same kind of excuses given to certain public figures who are very racist and stupid.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 0:04:27 GMT
Clarkson is a racist idiot. He isn't being a "naughty school kid" because even kids know that stuff is racist and horrible to say. And the kids who do say it get in trouble. Even then, if the excuse for Clarkson is he's acting like a child, that's a poor excuse. He's a grown adult, he should behave like one. Edit: it's also the same kind of excuses given to certain public figures who are very racist and stupid. Clarkson isn't a racist, it's just what he says that gets misconstrued. He pushed boundaries when he was on Top Gear in terms of what was acceptable but that's not the same as being racist. Unless you're also saying Gino De'Acampo is a sexist because he pushed against what would be deemed politically correct in regards to the cheeky manner in which he spoke to Melanie Sykes on ITV's Let's Do Lunch (sadly not on anymore). 'Naughty school kid' is just Clarkson's comedy act, and I hope he carries it on here as successfully as he does on The Grand Tour.
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Post by randomjc on Mar 10, 2018 0:12:08 GMT
Clarkson is a racist idiot. He isn't being a "naughty school kid" because even kids know that stuff is racist and horrible to say. And the kids who do say it get in trouble. Even then, if the excuse for Clarkson is he's acting like a child, that's a poor excuse. He's a grown adult, he should behave like one. Edit: it's also the same kind of excuses given to certain public figures who are very racist and stupid. Clarkson isn't a racist, it's just what he says that gets misconstrued. He pushed boundaries when he was on Top Gear in terms of what was acceptable but that's not the same as being racist. Unless you're also saying Gino De'Acampo is a sexist because he pushed against what would be deemed politically correct in regards to the cheeky manner in which he spoke to Melanie Sykes on ITV's Let's Do Lunch (sadly not on anymore). 'Naughty school kid' is just Clarkson's comedy act, and I hope he carries it on here as successfully as he does on The Grand Tour. No idea who that is to make the comparison. And pushing the boundaries by saying racist/sexist things for comedy is just an excuse for being racist/sexist. So yes, I think he's a racist, and just because it's for "humor" doesn't make it less racist. It's naive to think it's all fun and games, he's being offensive for laughs. He's not making fun of you, but he's making fun of other people by "pushing boundaries." It's wrong. It isn't funny. And he's a racist.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 0:21:32 GMT
Clarkson isn't a racist, it's just what he says that gets misconstrued. He pushed boundaries when he was on Top Gear in terms of what was acceptable but that's not the same as being racist. Unless you're also saying Gino De'Acampo is a sexist because he pushed against what would be deemed politically correct in regards to the cheeky manner in which he spoke to Melanie Sykes on ITV's Let's Do Lunch (sadly not on anymore). 'Naughty school kid' is just Clarkson's comedy act, and I hope he carries it on here as successfully as he does on The Grand Tour. No idea who that is to make the comparison. And pushing the boundaries by saying racist/sexist things for comedy is just an excuse for being racist/sexist. So yes, I think he's a racist, and just because it's for "humor" doesn't make it less racist. It's naive to think it's all fun and games, he's being offensive for laughs. He's not making fun of you, but he's making fun of other people by "pushing boundaries." It's wrong. It isn't funny. And he's a racist. Comedy isn't an excuse I agree, but I still don't see Clarkson as a racist. He was just going against political correctness and daring to say what other presenters wouldn't on the BBC.
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Post by randomjc on Mar 10, 2018 0:25:00 GMT
No idea who that is to make the comparison. And pushing the boundaries by saying racist/sexist things for comedy is just an excuse for being racist/sexist. So yes, I think he's a racist, and just because it's for "humor" doesn't make it less racist. It's naive to think it's all fun and games, he's being offensive for laughs. He's not making fun of you, but he's making fun of other people by "pushing boundaries." It's wrong. It isn't funny. And he's a racist. Comedy isn't an excuse I agree, but I still don't see Clarkson as a racist. He was just going against political correctness and daring to say what other presenters wouldn't on the BBC. ...yeah. you know going against political correctness is code for being racist/sexist, right?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 0:38:36 GMT
Comedy isn't an excuse I agree, but I still don't see Clarkson as a racist. He was just going against political correctness and daring to say what other presenters wouldn't on the BBC. ...yeah. you know going against political correctness is code for being racist/sexist, right? Only if it goes too far, ala Katie Hopkins or Piers Morgan.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 10, 2018 0:52:38 GMT
No idea who that is to make the comparison. And pushing the boundaries by saying racist/sexist things for comedy is just an excuse for being racist/sexist. So yes, I think he's a racist, and just because it's for "humor" doesn't make it less racist. It's naive to think it's all fun and games, he's being offensive for laughs. He's not making fun of you, but he's making fun of other people by "pushing boundaries." It's wrong. It isn't funny. And he's a racist. Comedy isn't an excuse I agree, but I still don't see Clarkson as a racist. He was just going against political correctness and daring to say what other presenters wouldn't on the BBC. I don't see him daring to say that stuff that others wouldn't is either a good or a particularly entertaining thing. What is entertaining about the double meaning of the word 'slope' as he observes a man crossing a bridge? What is entertaining about drawing attention to Gordon Brown's disability? What is entertaining about branding a car the '430 special needs'? It's just designed to make people annoyed or cross. When I was younger, I did enjoy the school boy-ish antics of the trio, but Clarkson's comments in no way helped that. It's just aimed at provoking people, which isn't entertainment. It's just tiresome. I haven't watched any of The Grand Tour so don't know if he still does irritating stuff like this. Maybe the format of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire will rein him in somewhat as well, who knows?
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Post by masterdoctor on Mar 10, 2018 2:52:57 GMT
Comedy isn't an excuse I agree, but I still don't see Clarkson as a racist. He was just going against political correctness and daring to say what other presenters wouldn't on the BBC. ...yeah. you know going against political correctness is code for being racist/sexist, right? Political Correctness used to mean that, but now it just stands in for people not wanting to hear things that do agree with their worldview.
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Post by randomjc on Mar 10, 2018 3:06:44 GMT
...yeah. you know going against political correctness is code for being racist/sexist, right? Political Correctness used to mean that, but now it just stands in for people not wanting to hear things that do agree with their worldview. If only that were true. But it's not. It really isn't. No one uses "political correctness" except those trying to justify their remarks as some kind of defiance against an oppression. Just look at the people who use PC. It's almost always brought up in an "anti-PC" context. You never see someone "pro-PC". So it's redefinded by racist/sexists to the general public, so they can hide behind something when they're being racist/sexist. It's all just locker room talk.
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Post by masterdoctor on Mar 10, 2018 4:21:32 GMT
Political Correctness used to mean that, but now it just stands in for people not wanting to hear things that do agree with their worldview. If only that were true. But it's not. It really isn't. No one uses "political correctness" except those trying to justify their remarks as some kind of defiance against an oppression. Just look at the people who use PC. It's almost always brought up in an "anti-PC" context. You never see someone "pro-PC". So it's redefinded by racist/sexists to the general public, so they can hide behind something when they're being racist/sexist. It's all just locker room talk. Well here are my thoughts Firstly, pro-PC do use the term. Examples include The Atlantic on the importance of it, The Guardian referencing Cornell University etc. So no, its not just the anti-PC. Secondly, Political Correctness is being used to shut down different opinions, especially when it comes to free speech. This is especially prevalent to comedians. For example we can look at John Cleese, the star of Monty Python. He has been outspoken against PC culture, not because he is a racist or is sexist. We can also apply that to people such as Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Patton Oswalt, Matt Damon etc. Would you consider Robin Williams or Billy Crystal racist/sexist because of their jokes? Using John Cleese again, one of my favourite quotes from him is “It starts as a half way decent idea and then it goes completely wrong and is taken ad absurdum. Make jokes about Swedes and Germans and French and English and Canadians and Americans, why can't we make jokes about Mexicans? Is it because they are so feeble that they can't look after themselves?” I think that this is a really good example of how the safe space mentality is affecting our society negatively. I also am linking a great video from John Cleese about it as well. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAK0KXEpF8U
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 10:45:13 GMT
Comedy isn't an excuse I agree, but I still don't see Clarkson as a racist. He was just going against political correctness and daring to say what other presenters wouldn't on the BBC. I don't see him daring to say that stuff that others wouldn't is either a good or a particularly entertaining thing. What is entertaining about the double meaning of the word 'slope' as he observes a man crossing a bridge? What is entertaining about drawing attention to Gordon Brown's disability? What is entertaining about branding a car the '430 special needs'? It's just designed to make people annoyed or cross. When I was younger, I did enjoy the school boy-ish antics of the trio, but Clarkson's comments in no way helped that. It's just aimed at provoking people, which isn't entertainment. It's just tiresome. I haven't watched any of The Grand Tour so don't know if he still does irritating stuff like this. Maybe the format of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire will rein him in somewhat as well, who knows? Slope - The bridge was sloping. Only 'racist' for those who even know the word also has a very obscure meaning for something else. Gordon Brown - Again, 'one eyed' is just to paint a picture in the head of the person hearing those words. The actual joke is that Gordon Brown was an awful prime minister. It wouldn't have had the same impact if he had just called him a Scottish idiot. 430 Special Needs - I don't actually remember that one, so it can't have been too bad. I'm guessing it was just Clarkson's way of saying the car struggles at some things but excels at others. I hope they don't rein him in for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. It's Jeremy Clarkson pushing the limits of what's acceptable on primetime television that makes him such an entertaining watch. It wouldn't be the same if all his jokes had to be politically correct.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 10:49:27 GMT
I think Clarkson will get away with a lot more risky/racist/sexist (tick as appropriate - has he done homophobic yet?) material now he's not on the BBC. It is always the BBC under scrutiny rather than it's staff.
Is he racist? Of course he is, to a certain extent. He's of the old school, smoking fags and swilling pints and swapping prejudiced jokes in the pub. This spills out onto his TV persona. He's far from alone in this, and never seems to take himself seriously. You know, to a certain extent, what you're going to get with JC. Some like it and 'excuse' some of his banter, some don't.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 10:49:56 GMT
If only that were true. But it's not. It really isn't. No one uses "political correctness" except those trying to justify their remarks as some kind of defiance against an oppression. Just look at the people who use PC. It's almost always brought up in an "anti-PC" context. You never see someone "pro-PC". So it's redefinded by racist/sexists to the general public, so they can hide behind something when they're being racist/sexist. It's all just locker room talk. Well here are my thoughts Firstly, pro-PC do use the term. Examples include The Atlantic on the importance of it, The Guardian referencing Cornell University etc. So no, its not just the anti-PC. Secondly, Political Correctness is being used to shut down different opinions, especially when it comes to free speech. This is especially prevalent to comedians. For example we can look at John Cleese, the star of Monty Python. He has been outspoken against PC culture, not because he is a racist or is sexist. We can also apply that to people such as Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Patton Oswalt, Matt Damon etc. Would you consider Robin Williams or Billy Crystal racist/sexist because of their jokes? Using John Cleese again, one of my favourite quotes from him is “It starts as a half way decent idea and then it goes completely wrong and is taken ad absurdum. Make jokes about Swedes and Germans and French and English and Canadians and Americans, why can't we make jokes about Mexicans? Is it because they are so feeble that they can't look after themselves?” I think that this is a really good example of how the safe space mentality is affecting our society negatively. I also am linking a great video from John Cleese about it as well. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAK0KXEpF8UAnd this is all what makes Jeremy Clarkson a brilliant source of comedy. He doesn't care about modern views deeming it unacceptable to make jokes about Mexicans or other nationalities, he just says what he feels like. He doesn't go as far as to be racist with it, but equally he's not one to follow PC culture totally by the book. I wouldn't dare say half the things Clarkson says, but I appreciate that there's someone who does that in this culture where people are so easily offended.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 10, 2018 11:01:50 GMT
I don't see him daring to say that stuff that others wouldn't is either a good or a particularly entertaining thing. What is entertaining about the double meaning of the word 'slope' as he observes a man crossing a bridge? What is entertaining about drawing attention to Gordon Brown's disability? What is entertaining about branding a car the '430 special needs'? It's just designed to make people annoyed or cross. When I was younger, I did enjoy the school boy-ish antics of the trio, but Clarkson's comments in no way helped that. It's just aimed at provoking people, which isn't entertainment. It's just tiresome. I haven't watched any of The Grand Tour so don't know if he still does irritating stuff like this. Maybe the format of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire will rein him in somewhat as well, who knows? Slope - The bridge was sloping. Only 'racist' for those who even know the word also has a very obscure meaning for something else. Gordon Brown - Again, 'one eyed' is just to paint a picture in the head of the person hearing those words. The actual joke is that Gordon Brown was an awful prime minister. It wouldn't have had the same impact if he had just called him a Scottish idiot. 430 Special Needs - I don't actually remember that one, so it can't have been too bad. I'm guessing it was just Clarkson's way of saying the car struggles at some things but excels at others. I hope they don't rein him in for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. It's Jeremy Clarkson pushing the limits of what's acceptable on primetime television that makes him such an entertaining watch. It wouldn't be the same if all his jokes had to be politically correct. Slope isn't obscure to the people that have been called it, and it's clear from watching it Clarkson meant it as a double meaning joke. Why leave in a scene of them discussing a mild slope on the bridge unless it was intended as boundary pushing "joke"? The context of '430 special needs' was on one of the articles on the previous page. One-eyed does not need to be there to 'paint a picture', everyone knows what Gordon Brown looks like. It's a needless reference to his disability in the name of 'pushing boundaries', which is nowadays just an excuse for making people angry for no particular reason, and is not particularly entertaining. Clarkson's comments are just the equivalent of "bait" that's spread online. Just aiming to make people cross for no particular reason. If 'politically correct' (an all-but meaningless term nowadays) means you can't use racial slurs or mock people who struggle with disabilities, then how is it a bad thing? Clarkson can be entertaining, but his 'jokes' too often cross the line and just become annoying bait.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 11:10:13 GMT
I don't see him daring to say that stuff that others wouldn't is either a good or a particularly entertaining thing. What is entertaining about the double meaning of the word 'slope' as he observes a man crossing a bridge? What is entertaining about drawing attention to Gordon Brown's disability? What is entertaining about branding a car the '430 special needs'? It's just designed to make people annoyed or cross. When I was younger, I did enjoy the school boy-ish antics of the trio, but Clarkson's comments in no way helped that. It's just aimed at provoking people, which isn't entertainment. It's just tiresome. I haven't watched any of The Grand Tour so don't know if he still does irritating stuff like this. Maybe the format of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire will rein him in somewhat as well, who knows? Slope - The bridge was sloping. Only 'racist' for those who even know the word also has a very obscure meaning for something else. Gordon Brown - Again, 'one eyed' is just to paint a picture in the head of the person hearing those words. The actual joke is that Gordon Brown was an awful prime minister. It wouldn't have had the same impact if he had just called him a Scottish idiot. 430 Special Needs - I don't actually remember that one, so it can't have been too bad. I'm guessing it was just Clarkson's way of saying the car struggles at some things but excels at others. I hope they don't rein him in for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. It's Jeremy Clarkson pushing the limits of what's acceptable on primetime television that makes him such an entertaining watch. It wouldn't be the same if all his jokes had to be politically correct. Clarkson is one of those people who knows the "very obscure meaning" of slope. That is why he said it. He highlighted someone's disabilitiy in criticising them, but I guess you are fine with that. I guess therefore we can critizise you by making specific reference to your autism? That would be fine? To use that as a defining characteristic when criticising you? You don't remember the 430 special one so it can't have been that bad? & then you go on to excuse this behaviour? Clarkson isn't pushing any limits about what's acceptable at all, he's just being offensive. But that's his excuse I bet, "Hey I'm just pusing the limits!". This is a circular argument though because I'm sure your autism is limiting your understanding of how offensive these things are. Although it is interesting to note you said that you "wouldn't dare say half the things Clarkson" does, why not?
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Post by randomjc on Mar 10, 2018 11:40:00 GMT
If only that were true. But it's not. It really isn't. No one uses "political correctness" except those trying to justify their remarks as some kind of defiance against an oppression. Just look at the people who use PC. It's almost always brought up in an "anti-PC" context. You never see someone "pro-PC". So it's redefinded by racist/sexists to the general public, so they can hide behind something when they're being racist/sexist. It's all just locker room talk. Well here are my thoughts Firstly, pro-PC do use the term. Examples include The Atlantic on the importance of it, The Guardian referencing Cornell University etc. So no, its not just the anti-PC. Secondly, Political Correctness is being used to shut down different opinions, especially when it comes to free speech. This is especially prevalent to comedians. For example we can look at John Cleese, the star of Monty Python. He has been outspoken against PC culture, not because he is a racist or is sexist. We can also apply that to people such as Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Patton Oswalt, Matt Damon etc. Would you consider Robin Williams or Billy Crystal racist/sexist because of their jokes? Using John Cleese again, one of my favourite quotes from him is “It starts as a half way decent idea and then it goes completely wrong and is taken ad absurdum. Make jokes about Swedes and Germans and French and English and Canadians and Americans, why can't we make jokes about Mexicans? Is it because they are so feeble that they can't look after themselves?” I think that this is a really good example of how the safe space mentality is affecting our society negatively. I also am linking a great video from John Cleese about it as well. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAK0KXEpF8UWell, considering one story is nearly a decade old, and the other is less about being politically correct, and more about creativity flourishing under constraints, your argument is weak at best. Add that the first story doesn't come close to defing PC as to what you claim it does, it discusses it in terms like tolerance and acceptance, or how it actually started as a thing. And the second story uses it as cultural short hand, while mocking the very idea the extreme version of it you aspose that it means. It even goes so far to say it isn't a real thing. Did you read these articles? And when the people who didn't like the idea of being tolerant or accepting of other people, they started to redefine being PC as being the other side being intolerant. The fact that some well meaning people fall for it, doesn't change that the ones who changed what PC mean are the pro PC crowd, but the anti. And as far as dampening free speech you claim exists, where's the proof? That someone can't make racial jokes anymore? That you can't make coded racial slurs about Mexicans now? I can respect John Cleese, but that doesn't make him right.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 13:12:46 GMT
Slope - The bridge was sloping. Only 'racist' for those who even know the word also has a very obscure meaning for something else. Gordon Brown - Again, 'one eyed' is just to paint a picture in the head of the person hearing those words. The actual joke is that Gordon Brown was an awful prime minister. It wouldn't have had the same impact if he had just called him a Scottish idiot. 430 Special Needs - I don't actually remember that one, so it can't have been too bad. I'm guessing it was just Clarkson's way of saying the car struggles at some things but excels at others. I hope they don't rein him in for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. It's Jeremy Clarkson pushing the limits of what's acceptable on primetime television that makes him such an entertaining watch. It wouldn't be the same if all his jokes had to be politically correct. Slope isn't obscure to the people that have been called it, and it's clear from watching it Clarkson meant it as a double meaning joke. Why leave in a scene of them discussing a mild slope on the bridge unless it was intended as boundary pushing "joke"? Because there was a slope! It's not to do with knowing what he looks like, it's Clarkson painting a picture in our heads. 'Scottish idiot' wouldn't be as funny. 'One-eyed' also suggests he only had one eye on the job, rather than paying attention and doing the job properly. It's only the same as when people say someone eith two eyes only has one eye on the job, Gordon Brown just happens to have a disability which makes it a literal one eye. Political correctness isn't a bad thing, but sometimes it can be taken too far and comedians are therefore restricted by it. That's why it's great for there to be someone like Clarkson who takes it less seriously and pushes what is currently deemed acceptable.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 13:24:40 GMT
Clarkson is one of those people who knows the "very obscure meaning" of slope. That is why he said it. It doesn't matter whether or not Clarkson knows it, it doesn't mean he was intentionally using it that way. He was talking about a slope in the bridge Clarkson built with Hammond and May. And even if it was intentional: so what, when the audience most likely won't have anyway? Where's the harm in what you don't know? It was only found out that there was a racial meaning for slope because somebody deliberately searched for it to try and find a reason to be offended, then told the papers to create mass outrage. People are picky like that currrently when you can search any word on Google and find another meaning. If there was no internet nobody would have known slope can be a racist term. Except you can't, because there's no analogies to be made to doing a bad job that can be misinterpretated as commenting on the disability. 'Autistic Yorkshire idiot' wouldn't give the audience any idea what the joke's about. It's not like 'one-eyed' and 'he's only got one eye on the job' that says the joke is about somebody doing a poor job. I'm no comedy expert but I do know from writing screenplays on my course that if you're writing a jokey piece of dialogue your joke has got to have some kind of meaning behind it that's clear in order to be funny. If I did it would explode my Twitter feed and possibly have a knock-on effect on my employability. That's the world we live in at the moment, where nobody can say anything in fear that somebody will take offence.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 10, 2018 13:26:39 GMT
Slope isn't obscure to the people that have been called it, and it's clear from watching it Clarkson meant it as a double meaning joke. Why leave in a scene of them discussing a mild slope on the bridge unless it was intended as boundary pushing "joke"? Because there was a slope! It's not to do with knowing what he looks like, it's Clarkson painting a picture in our heads. 'Scottish idiot' wouldn't be as funny. 'One-eyed' also suggests he only had one eye on the job, rather than paying attention and doing the job properly. It's only the same as when people say someone eith two eyes only has one eye on the job, Gordon Brown just happens to have a disability which makes it a literal one eye. Political correctness isn't a bad thing, but sometimes it can be taken too far and comedians are therefore restricted by it. That's why it's great for there to be someone like Clarkson who takes it less seriously and pushes what is currently deemed acceptable. DB, do you genuinely believe they only included that scene to make viewers aware the bridge wasn't entirely flat? Never heard anyone refer to anyone as 'one-eyed' because they only have one eye on the job. I'm not sure why you seem determined to defend that remark as anything other than Clarkson mocking Gordon Brown's disability. There are plenty of things to mock about Brown, but his disability should not be one of them. Clarkson just doesn't seem to recognise where the line is between what's entertaining and just plain tasteless.
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