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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 13:41:27 GMT
DB, do you genuinely believe they only included that scene to make viewers aware the bridge wasn't entirely flat? Indeed. 'Slope' is a racial slur widely recognised outside this very naive 'bubble' - to suggest 'somebody deliberately searched for it to try and find a reason to be offended' is utter nonsense. I agree that people are too easily offended these days in many ways, but that is absolutely not the case here. It's a word which has a well-known double-meaning and was exploited as such.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 14:00:45 GMT
It doesn't matter whether or not Clarkson knows it, it doesn't mean he was intentionally using it that way. He was talking about a slope in the bridge Clarkson built with Hammond and May. And even if it was intentional: so what, when the audience most likely won't have anyway? Where's the harm in what you don't know? It was only found out that there was a racial meaning for slope because somebody deliberately searched for it to try and find a reason to be offended, then told the papers to create mass outrage. People are picky like that currrently when you can search any word on Google and find another meaning. If there was no internet nobody would have known slope can be a racist term. Really? Who was it that deliberately searched for it? Please can you provide evidence for this. I think once again you are demonstrating your limited knowledge & claiming it as fact. Many people know what slope means as a racial slure, myself included, so please don't make stuff up & state as fact that "If there was no internet nobody would have known slope can be a racist term." Just because you do not know what it means it does not follow that others also don't, & that someone deliberately searched for it & then complained. Unless of course you can provide evidence to back up your claim. Except you can't, because there's no analogies to be made to doing a bad job that can be misinterpretated as commenting on the disability. 'Autistic Yorkshire idiot' wouldn't give the audience any idea what the joke's about. It's not like 'one-eyed' and 'he's only got one eye on the job' that says the joke is about somebody doing a poor job. I'm no comedy expert but I do know from writing screenplays on my course that if you're writing a jokey piece of dialogue your joke has got to have some kind of meaning behind it that's clear in order to be funny. Oh well, I bow before your superior knowledge because you have written screenplays on your course! Hahahahahahahaha! If I did it would explode my Twitter feed and possibly have a knock-on effect on my employability. That's the world we live in at the moment, where nobody can say anything in fear that somebody will take offence. Twitter? It isn’t all about social media son. Oh & how are we living in a world where nobody can say anything in fear that somebody will take offence? That appears to be what lots of people with horrible views say but the evidence quite clearely refutes that as people can still say whatever they want & continue to do so on social media & in the press. Have you somehow missed it all? All the horrible slurs that women & racial minorities are subjected to daily? It is perfectly acceptable for those that say this to be called out on these views which thankfully is what happens quite a lot, & only then do those with horrible views complain that they are apparently not allowed to say racists or sexist things. But I guess this has shown you in your true colours, you agree with Clarkson & his views, that the only conclusion I can draw from your continual attempts to defend his abhorrent comments with so much passion here.
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Post by masterdoctor on Mar 10, 2018 15:47:52 GMT
Well here are my thoughts Firstly, pro-PC do use the term. Examples include The Atlantic on the importance of it, The Guardian referencing Cornell University etc. So no, its not just the anti-PC. Secondly, Political Correctness is being used to shut down different opinions, especially when it comes to free speech. This is especially prevalent to comedians. For example we can look at John Cleese, the star of Monty Python. He has been outspoken against PC culture, not because he is a racist or is sexist. We can also apply that to people such as Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Patton Oswalt, Matt Damon etc. Would you consider Robin Williams or Billy Crystal racist/sexist because of their jokes? Using John Cleese again, one of my favourite quotes from him is “It starts as a half way decent idea and then it goes completely wrong and is taken ad absurdum. Make jokes about Swedes and Germans and French and English and Canadians and Americans, why can't we make jokes about Mexicans? Is it because they are so feeble that they can't look after themselves?” I think that this is a really good example of how the safe space mentality is affecting our society negatively. I also am linking a great video from John Cleese about it as well. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAK0KXEpF8UWell, considering one story is nearly a decade old, and the other is less about being politically correct, and more about creativity flourishing under constraints, your argument is weak at best. Add that the first story doesn't come close to defing PC as to what you claim it does, it discusses it in terms like tolerance and acceptance, or how it actually started as a thing. And the second story uses it as cultural short hand, while mocking the very idea the extreme version of it you aspose that it means. It even goes so far to say it isn't a real thing. Did you read these articles? And when the people who didn't like the idea of being tolerant or accepting of other people, they started to redefine being PC as being the other side being intolerant. The fact that some well meaning people fall for it, doesn't change that the ones who changed what PC mean are the pro PC crowd, but the anti. And as far as dampening free speech you claim exists, where's the proof? That someone can't make racial jokes anymore? That you can't make coded racial slurs about Mexicans now? I can respect John Cleese, but that doesn't make him right. Those aren't very good examples are they. Apologies for that, I will say that they were an attempt, a poor one looking back, to illustrate how pro-PC view the situations, not whether I agreed with them. So again, apologies. You also bring up free speech. Without using the examples of comedians, I would draw focus to Matt Damon. He said a couple of months that the sexual crimes are a spectrum and that we can't punish people the same way for rape and sexual harassment as they are both very bad, but different crimes. Now he ended up facing a lot of backlash from particularly left wing news sites as well as actress Minnie Driver for this being tone deaf and completely wrong. Why? Because he said something that people didn't want to hear? Is that sexist or racist? There is a difference between what someone thinks and what someone thinks is funny. A joke doesn't mean intent, a joke doesn't mean that the person believes in what they are saying. People tell jokes to lampoon, to criticize etc. And they are plenty of times when jokes become in bad taste, but that is okay. We should be able to use that as a stepping stone to fix the problem in question, not ostracize someone for saying it. And finally, I do want to mention that no one ever got mad at Bill Cosby for the jokes he told, and we all know how great of a person he is... However, my original question still stands. Is Robin Williams or Billy Crystal racist/sexist for their jokes? And finally, where is any of your proof? All you have offered up is anecdotal evidence, which is a bit funny.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 15:51:07 GMT
Because there was a slope! It's not to do with knowing what he looks like, it's Clarkson painting a picture in our heads. 'Scottish idiot' wouldn't be as funny. 'One-eyed' also suggests he only had one eye on the job, rather than paying attention and doing the job properly. It's only the same as when people say someone eith two eyes only has one eye on the job, Gordon Brown just happens to have a disability which makes it a literal one eye. Political correctness isn't a bad thing, but sometimes it can be taken too far and comedians are therefore restricted by it. That's why it's great for there to be someone like Clarkson who takes it less seriously and pushes what is currently deemed acceptable. DB, do you genuinely believe they only included that scene to make viewers aware the bridge wasn't entirely flat? Yeah. Why only see the bad in people? I've heard it loads of times. It's a phrase to mean you're not concentrating entirely on what you're supposed to be doing.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 16:03:39 GMT
Who was it that deliberately searched for it? People who don't like Clarkson, and find any reason to be offended by him. Who in the 21st century uses 'slope' to mean anything other than something sloping? I never said I had 'superior knowledge', just stating what I have discovered on my MA by research. Actually, social media can have a big detrimental impact on employability. It's a major issue in terms of freedom of speech because if you are shown to have arguments on Facebook/Twitter or to accidentally offend someone you may be seen as somebody who can't get on with others, or who may be a liability. Just look at that ridiculous post from Doomlord saying displayed a lack of empathy just because I was saying the Daleks in the fictional universe of Doctor Who have done worse than real life human beings. People take offence too easily, and end up twisting others' words as a result into something that they weren't saying and that is a direct insult of their humanity. The PC culture when taken too seriously can be extremely damaging IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 16:07:22 GMT
Doomlord's post was far from ridiculous. You've also been asked to leave that subject alone.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 10, 2018 16:16:53 GMT
DB, do you genuinely believe they only included that scene to make viewers aware the bridge wasn't entirely flat? Yeah. Why only see the bad in people? I'm cynical to a fault. I can't see any reason for them including it except to make that 'joke'. There's no need to emphasis the bridge wasn't flat. Well assuming calling someone 'one-eyed' for a lack of focus is a thing, which maybe it is. It's still incredibly insensitive to call someone who literally only has the usage of one eye that. There's plenty to mock Gordon Brown about without having to stoop so low as to pick on his disability. Clarkson apparently didn't feel the need for such sensitivity.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 16:26:26 GMT
Doomlord's post was far from ridiculous. You've also been asked to leave that subject alone. It was ridiculous. It was twisting things unfairly to portray a false lack of empathy in what was supposed to be an innocent discussion about comparing the fictional acts of the Daleks to real life events. Things like that shouldn't be ignored, they should be challenged as an example of what PC culture does to people when its taken too far.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 16:28:36 GMT
Okay, so maybe it was a misjudged comment by Clarkson - but that still doesn't make him a horrible human being.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 16:33:49 GMT
There's plenty to mock Gordon Brown about without having to stoop so low as to pick on his disability. Clarkson apparently didn't feel the need for such sensitivity. I like Jeremy Clarkson and think he can be very funny at times, but sensitivity is not a word I would apply to his character! He is what he is. It will be interesting how he gets on presenting Who Wants to be a Millionaire? It'll either be very good or a bigger car crash than was ever on Top Gear. (FWIW: I had no idea what 'slope' meant beyond a slant, incline, or something not level... it's certainly not a word we'd use here in rural Ireland to describe anybody. So just because a word can have a double meaning it doesn't mean that everybody knows it!)
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Post by sherlock on Mar 10, 2018 16:36:08 GMT
Okay, so maybe it was a misjudged comment by Clarkson - but that still doesn't make him a horrible human being. Never said that he was a horrible human being. He can be entertaining, but he just never seemed to learn where the line is between what's entertaining and what's just insensitive and misjudged. Pushing boundaries is not an inherently good thing, it depends what boundaries you're pushing. In Clarkson's case most of the boundaries he was pushing were ones that did not benefit anyone, just succeeding in making people cross.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 16:39:00 GMT
Who was it that deliberately searched for it? People who don't like Clarkson, and find any reason to be offended by him. Who in the 21st century uses 'slope' to mean anything other than something sloping? Which people? Where is your evidence for this? Sorry to ask once again but you repeatedly state things as fact which are not facts at all, just opinions. Unless you are privy to information the rest of us are not. I don't know exactly who in the 21st centure uses the word slope as a racist term. Nor do you I guess hence you asking the question. Regardless your earlier claim that "If there was no internet nobody would have known slope can be a racist term." is wrong. For example as I have said, I know the racist meaning of the word as do a lot of other people. Using it is a different matter. Once again please provide evidence for your claims rather than stating things as fact like you have just done again! & one crucial point why, of all the words used by Clarkson in that particular episode, would these unknown people who have a vendetta against Clarkson, enter the word 'slope' into a search engine to see if it has any other slang meaning? Why? I'm asking you because you seem to know all about them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 16:45:31 GMT
Okay, so maybe it was a misjudged comment by Clarkson - but that still doesn't make him a horrible human being. Never said that he was a horrible human being. He can be entertaining, but he just never seemed to learn where the line is between what's entertaining and what's just insensitive and misjudged. Pushing boundaries is not an inherently good thing, it depends what boundaries you're pushing. In Clarkson's case most of the boundaries he was pushing were ones that did not benefit anyone, just succeeding in making people cross. He doesn't learn because there are no repurcussions for his actions. Its always laughed off as just Clarkson being Clarkson. He might get a minor ticking off but ultimately he gets rewarded for 'pushing the boundaries' in our 'pc world'. Such naughty schoolboy behaviour as using a racial slur iin a long rant then assaulting a tv producer. Not the first time he had punched someone.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 10, 2018 17:04:12 GMT
People who don't like Clarkson, and find any reason to be offended by him. Who in the 21st century uses 'slope' to mean anything other than something sloping? Which people? Where is your evidence for this? Sorry to ask once again but you repeatedly state things as fact which are not facts at all, just opinions. Unless you are privy to information the rest of us are not. I don't know exactly who in the 21st centure uses the word slope as a racist term. Nor do you I guess hence you asking the question. Regardless your earlier claim that "If there was no internet nobody would have known slope can be a racist term." is wrong. For example as I have said, I know the racist meaning of the word as do a lot of other people. Using it is a different matter. Once again please provide evidence for your claims rather than stating things as fact like you have just done again! & one crucial point why, of all the words used by Clarkson in that particular episode, would these unknown people who have a vendetta against Clarkson, enter the word 'slope' into a search engine to see if it has any other slang meaning? Why? I'm asking you because you seem to know all about them. Clarkson is an easy target. You only have to look at the Argentina nonsense to see that it was mainly just people looking for any reason to be outraged.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 17:18:40 GMT
Which people? Where is your evidence for this? Sorry to ask once again but you repeatedly state things as fact which are not facts at all, just opinions. Unless you are privy to information the rest of us are not. I don't know exactly who in the 21st centure uses the word slope as a racist term. Nor do you I guess hence you asking the question. Regardless your earlier claim that "If there was no internet nobody would have known slope can be a racist term." is wrong. For example as I have said, I know the racist meaning of the word as do a lot of other people. Using it is a different matter. Once again please provide evidence for your claims rather than stating things as fact like you have just done again! & one crucial point why, of all the words used by Clarkson in that particular episode, would these unknown people who have a vendetta against Clarkson, enter the word 'slope' into a search engine to see if it has any other slang meaning? Why? I'm asking you because you seem to know all about them. Clarkson is an easy target. You only have to look at the Argentina nonsense to see that it was mainly just people looking for any reason to be outraged. More opinion masquerading as fact. & of course failing to answer my question, again.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Mar 10, 2018 17:39:56 GMT
As this thread has become nothing more than personal attacks, we are locking this one and will be considering how to deal with those who led to our making this decision.
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