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Post by Hieronymus on Apr 1, 2018 21:45:02 GMT
Cyber-Brigadier is near the top (bottom?) of any list of undesirable additions to the mythos.
I'd just bet that Moffat's idea was that "Handles" was the Brigadier. It's Moffat's style to weave complicated threads like that and never spell them out for the audience, and I just don't need that.
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Post by mrperson on Apr 2, 2018 16:48:53 GMT
I hate the retcon that The Doctor and Sarah Jane were unrequited lovers. I love their platonic friendship, I love that The Doctor absousetly adores Sarah Jane, I love that Sarah Jane adores her friend just as equally, he's BONKERS and she loves it. They'll never meet each other in the middle, but they don't care. But no, they had to be looooooooovers, because platonic friendship isn't a thing or can't be deep or meaningful. When has this ever actually happened though? Perhaps it's his reading of the unnecessary Rose-Sarah rivalry scenes in School Reunion?
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Post by eldersensorite on Apr 2, 2018 17:39:43 GMT
The War Doctor - I love John Hurt and I enjoy the audios featuring him, but for me he fills a role that could already be (and should have been) filled by Paul McGann, and adds pointless confusion about Doctor numbering, along with Tennant counting as two Doctors.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 18:19:06 GMT
The War Doctor - I love John Hurt and I enjoy the audios featuring him, but for me he fills a role that could already be (and should have been) filled by Paul McGann, and adds pointless confusion about Doctor numbering, along with Tennant counting as two Doctors. Moffatt discusses it in a very candid interview here (time stamped): youtu.be/ZOfIIqb8Uhg?t=1042 I don't agree with the idea of the War Doctor either, but I can't help but feel sympathetic given the conditions he was under. If it helps, consider Eight's reluctance a side effect of the Time War's machinations
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 19:28:10 GMT
The 13 regeneration limit has no purpose other than to be really annoying.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 21:18:34 GMT
The 13 regeneration limit has no purpose other than to be really annoying. Eh, it doesn't hurt to put a cap on The Doctor given his abilities. The same reason why we have a companion - to have a sense of threat. Regeneration is one of the most brilliant masterstrokes EVER in fiction in keeping an ongoing story fresh, exciting and innovative, while still keeping the stakes in place.
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Post by MayoTango131 on Apr 3, 2018 3:03:43 GMT
River was physically restrained and brainwashed into be assassin - her saying that her parents just shows how messed up she is. Amy never being able to provide a proper childhood for her daughter is shown to be one of her biggest regrets, given her childhood with Aunt Shannon. Sorry no don't buy it because the Aunt Shannon thing doesn't happen because of the Big Bang resolution,
In true continuity 2nd incarnation of Melody poses as Amy's best friend makes sure that she gets together with Rory. Amy resents her parents for putting her through therapy. She has major doubts about marrying Rory, treats him rubbish IMO, marries him anyway, gets pregnant kidnapped, cloned, gives birth in captivity, child gets kidnapped, is revealed as River, they go home, Lets Kill plays out,
From the end of Lets kill Hitler on their attitude to children is awful. No sympathy for kid or parents in Night Terrors only a couple of really crass remarks regarding discipline.
Then the final straw she can't have another biological child (for whatever reason !!!) and she decides the Marriage is over! No discussion on fostering or adoption and he still begs to be taken back!
Sorry for the Rant
Regards
mark687
That's a very lazy summary of someone who really did not pay attention to how creepy the story really is: She is kidnapped and drugged to keep her asleep for months, wakes up screaming in horror at seeing her scary kidnapper take delight watching her suffer, his legs spread apart and forced to give painful birth to a child she did not even realize she was pregnant with. When Amy tries to recover with her baby, it is revealed to be a ganger (an artificial body) when it explodes, leaving her sobbing in an absolutely violated despair in night clothes with white goo on her hands and face. To make matters worse, River Song tries to calm a hysteric Amy with a gun by telling her it's her daughter ... I suspect that Amy swallowed tons of anti-depressants and anti-madness pills for the rest of Series 6 until she finally got her revenge in killing his torturer Kovarian. Asylum of the Daleks and the rest of Series 7A is when Amy can finally cry and overcome their traumas. This is shockingly a Rape and Revenge plot onto family television.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 3, 2018 9:16:56 GMT
The Lonely God nonsense.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 3, 2018 9:36:47 GMT
Hybrid Prophecy being the reason the Docfor left Gallifrey. I don't hate it but really, it just adds nothing. I much prefer his reasons simply being a mix of being stifled in Gallifreyan society and an unknown event happening that gave him the impetus to go.
If we're talking expanded universe additions-Susan not being the Doctor's direct granddaughter. It just unnecessarily complicates their relationship. I've never understood why some tellings go to such lengths to separate them.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 3, 2018 10:18:06 GMT
Sorry no don't buy it because the Aunt Shannon thing doesn't happen because of the Big Bang resolution,
In true continuity 2nd incarnation of Melody poses as Amy's best friend makes sure that she gets together with Rory. Amy resents her parents for putting her through therapy. She has major doubts about marrying Rory, treats him rubbish IMO, marries him anyway, gets pregnant kidnapped, cloned, gives birth in captivity, child gets kidnapped, is revealed as River, they go home, Lets Kill plays out,
From the end of Lets kill Hitler on their attitude to children is awful. No sympathy for kid or parents in Night Terrors only a couple of really crass remarks regarding discipline.
Then the final straw she can't have another biological child (for whatever reason !!!) and she decides the Marriage is over! No discussion on fostering or adoption and he still begs to be taken back!
Sorry for the Rant
Regards
mark687
That's a very lazy summary of someone who really did not pay attention to how creepy the story really is: She is kidnapped and drugged to keep her asleep for months, wakes up screaming in horror at seeing her scary kidnapper take delight watching her suffer, his legs spread apart and forced to give painful birth to a child she did not even realize she was pregnant with. When Amy tries to recover with her baby, it is revealed to be a ganger (an artificial body) when it explodes, leaving her sobbing in an absolutely violated despair in night clothes with white goo on her hands and face. To make matters worse, River Song tries to calm a hysteric Amy with a gun by telling her it's her daughter ... I suspect that Amy swallowed tons of anti-depressants and anti-madness pills for the rest of Series 6 until she finally got her revenge in killing his torturer Kovarian. Asylum of the Daleks and the rest of Series 7A is when Amy can finally cry and overcome their traumas. This is shockingly a Rape and Revenge plot onto family television. Sorry if my view caused offence. And it wasn't Rape (conception was a consensual act), The Kidnaps were certainly wrong.
But to take your view makes Lets Kill Hitler even worse,
So she knows Melody will eventually become River, but she's expecting the Doctor to come back with the baby or at least her location as a baby, instead he meets her best friend, lets her take them to Nazi Germany, lets her get shot and cooly informs them of her true identity as she regenerates into River. Where's Amy's genuine emotional fallouts from these traumas, its all treated like a funny jaunts. And Kovarian's Death doesn't stick (I agree it should've done for emotional pay-off).
Also if fear of another kidnap Baby theft was the reason for her not to want to have another child, the show should have treated it as maturely as you seem to have and have Amy voice those concerns.
Regards
mark687
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Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 3, 2018 11:52:16 GMT
The 13 regeneration limit has no purpose other than to be really annoying. Eh, it doesn't hurt to put a cap on The Doctor given his abilities. The same reason why we have a companion - to have a sense of threat. Regeneration is one of the most brilliant masterstrokes EVER in fiction in keeping an ongoing story fresh, exciting and innovative, while still keeping the stakes in place. The Doctor and audience need to know that the Doctor is not invincible. If we didn't have the regeneration cap, we could have a situation where the Doctor goes through 3 bodies through one series.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 3, 2018 11:53:44 GMT
Hybrid Prophecy being the reason the Docfor left Gallifrey. I don't hate it but really, it just adds nothing. I much prefer his reasons simply being a mix of being stifled in Gallifreyan society and an unknown event happening that gave him the impetus to go. If we're talking expanded universe additions-Susan not being the Doctor's direct granddaughter. It just unnecessarily complicates their relationship. I've never understood why some tellings go to such lengths to separate them. The hybrid prophecy means that at we are stuck with it forever.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 3, 2018 11:57:56 GMT
The War Doctor - I love John Hurt and I enjoy the audios featuring him, but for me he fills a role that could already be (and should have been) filled by Paul McGann, and adds pointless confusion about Doctor numbering, along with Tennant counting as two Doctors. I've never liked the idea of The War Doctor, but they could have used The Valeyard in DOTD.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 15:19:07 GMT
The War Doctor - I love John Hurt and I enjoy the audios featuring him, but for me he fills a role that could already be (and should have been) filled by Paul McGann, and adds pointless confusion about Doctor numbering, along with Tennant counting as two Doctors. I've never liked the idea of The War Doctor, but they could have used The Valeyard in DOTD. I never liked the idea of The War Doctor originally - much like eldersensorite - but in hindsight I'm bloody glad we got him as the Big Finish War Doctor audios with John Hurt were absolutely fabulous. They were way better than I thought they'd be. So I have no problem with that addition to the mythos.
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Post by newt5996 on Apr 3, 2018 17:01:44 GMT
Odd because I love Lungbarrow, but this weird idea in the revived show where the Doctor is a Lonely God and is the highest authority. This was mainly apparent with Tennant’s specials and He’ll Bent which does the character a disservice. He’s a time lord not space Jesus
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Post by Ela on Apr 3, 2018 17:26:55 GMT
I hate the retcon that The Doctor and Sarah Jane were unrequited lovers. I love their platonic friendship, I love that The Doctor absousetly adores Sarah Jane, I love that Sarah Jane adores her friend just as equally, he's BONKERS and she loves it. They'll never meet each other in the middle, but they don't care. But no, they had to be looooooooovers, because platonic friendship isn't a thing or can't be deep or meaningful. When has this ever actually happened though? Perhaps it's his reading of the unnecessary Rose-Sarah rivalry scenes in School Reunion? Is it only his reading? It was strongly suggested in "School Reunion" that there was some sort of unrequited love situation going on between Sarah Jane and the Fourth Doctor and that Sarah Jane never married as a result. I hated that bit also. There was never a hint of anything more than friendship in the relationship between Sarah Jane and the Fourth Doctor.
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Post by escalus5 on Apr 3, 2018 17:37:27 GMT
Perhaps it's his reading of the unnecessary Rose-Sarah rivalry scenes in School Reunion? Is it only his reading? It was strongly suggested in "School Reunion" that there was some sort of unrequited love situation going on between Sarah Jane and the Fourth Doctor and that Sarah Jane never married as a result. I hated that bit also. There was never a hint of anything more than friendship in the relationship between Sarah Jane and the Fourth Doctor. I've always felt there were hints in the original series that Sarah Jane had a crush on the Fourth Doctor and that, sensing her affection for him, the Doctor would make fun of Sarah or keep her at arm's length. It seemed (to me, at least) to be present not only in the writing, but also in the performances by Sladen and Baker.
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Post by barnabaslives on Apr 3, 2018 22:13:29 GMT
The Doctor and audience need to know that the Doctor is not invincible. If we didn't have the regeneration cap, we could have a situation where the Doctor goes through 3 bodies through one series. I don't think that's going to happen just for real-world reasons. Personally, I've always treated the Doctor like he's indestructible because of regeneration, but regeneration can be such a royal pain that he's probably justified to avoid it as if it really were the same thing as actually dying. Plus, from a viewer perspective, regeneration may not mean the end of The Doctor, but it does mean the last we may see of a Doctor that we may be a particular favorite (or certain companions), so for me that too has always been close enough to The Doctor being mortal for dramatic purposes. In the real world, it would certainly seem to make more sense (at least to me) to overwrite a 13-regeneration limit than to terminate the series because of it.
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Post by relativetime on Apr 3, 2018 23:30:58 GMT
"The Master is crazy because he can hear drums in his head" is my least favorite addition to the mythos. Not only do I think it contradicts how the character is written in every other bit of media and is a vast misunderstanding of the Master's character - it was also executed really poorly. I'm not even sure if it IS a part of the Simm Master's continuity anymore, given his performance in World Enough and Time, and The Doctor Falls - that should probably say something about how poorly thought out it was.
I also didn't really care for how the hybrid arc in Series 9, looking back. It feels kind of shoehorned in and seems like an attempt to strong-arm an unrelated story into the Doctor, Clara arc just to explain a half-thought out plot-thread from a previous series.
I'm also not sold on the "half-human on my mother's side" line either. It seems like a pointless addition to the Doctor's character and really should have been saved by the writers for when they actually got around to writing their planned revival/soft-reboot - which thankfully, based on what we know was planned for this hypothetical series, didn't happen.
On a final note, I'm also of the opinion that the Time Lords ended up getting a serious downgrade after The War Games simply because we added too much to the mythos. During Pertwee's era, they lost a lot of their menace and awe that they'd had in that one story and the show only ever managed to regain even half of that same menace and awe by killing them off altogether - temporarily, of course (that's another issue I have, albeit smaller than it was in the past).
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 3, 2018 23:55:23 GMT
Perhaps it's his reading of the unnecessary Rose-Sarah rivalry scenes in School Reunion? Is it only his reading? It was strongly suggested in "School Reunion" that there was some sort of unrequited love situation going on between Sarah Jane and the Fourth Doctor and that Sarah Jane never married as a result. I hated that bit also. There was never a hint of anything more than friendship in the relationship between Sarah Jane and the Fourth Doctor. I would have to do some digging but I know Lis Sladen spoke about an unrequited love aspect very much playing a part in her goodbye scenes as she left 4. Watching it there is clearly something going on beneath the surface but it is never overt. And considering how rarely companions interacted in the original series, there being tension between former and current traveling companions makes a great deal of dramatic sense to me. As fans we all have our Doctor, I can certainly see writing and playing a character with a certain degree of ownership when having companions come into contact with one another. A show that has 50+ years of history and you have to take the new avenues for telling stories that present themselves. And besides, time can be rewritten. So can past choices by previous creative teams. More on topic, the whole hybrid thing from the TV movie just smacks of watered down American "having to explain everything" television and is rather annoying. I'll go further back and say I have always had a problem with the Time-Lords forcing the Second Doctor's regeneration and wiping the memories of Jamie & Zoe. That has always struck me as rape.
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