|
Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 4, 2018 12:02:52 GMT
More on topic, t he whole hybrid thing from the TV movie just smacks of watered down American "having to explain everything" television and is rather annoying. I'll go further back and say I have always had a problem with the Time-Lords forcing the Second Doctor's regeneration and wiping the memories of Jamie & Zoe. That has always struck me as rape. The Doctor was half human in the tv movie, but it was Moffat that introduced the Hybrid. And, I'm still waiting to find out who/what the Hybrid was.
|
|
|
Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 4, 2018 12:06:08 GMT
"The Master is crazy because he can hear drums in his head" is my least favorite addition to the mythos. Not only do I think it contradicts how the character is written in every other bit of media and is a vast misunderstanding of the Master's character - it was also executed really poorly. I'm not even sure if it IS a part of the Simm Master's continuity anymore, given his performance in World Enough and Time, and The Doctor Falls - that should probably say something about how poorly thought out it was. Isn't it mentioned in The Doctor Falls, that the Time Lords helped "remove" the drums, then he escaped Gallifrey? But, I do agree that the drums doesn't sit well with me and the Delgado Master.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Apr 4, 2018 12:07:37 GMT
More on topic, t he whole hybrid thing from the TV movie just smacks of watered down American "having to explain everything" television and is rather annoying. I'll go further back and say I have always had a problem with the Time-Lords forcing the Second Doctor's regeneration and wiping the memories of Jamie & Zoe. That has always struck me as rape. The Doctor was half human in the tv movie, but it was Moffat that introduced the Hybrid. And, I'm still waiting to find out who/what the Hybrid was. My impression from Hell Bent was the Hybrid was supposed to be the Doctor and Clara being together. I don't mind the half-human thing. It doesn't really contradict anything, but equally doesn't really change anything either. Now it's just there as a path never explored due to the Movie not leading to a series.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Apr 4, 2018 12:11:49 GMT
"The Master is crazy because he can hear drums in his head" is my least favorite addition to the mythos. Not only do I think it contradicts how the character is written in every other bit of media and is a vast misunderstanding of the Master's character - it was also executed really poorly. I'm not even sure if it IS a part of the Simm Master's continuity anymore, given his performance in World Enough and Time, and The Doctor Falls - that should probably say something about how poorly thought out it was. Isn't it mentioned in The Doctor Falls, that the Time Lords helped "remove" the drums, then he escaped Gallifrey? But, I do agree that the drums doesn't sit well with me and the Delgado Master. It's mentioned the Time Lords cured him of his 'condition', presumably referring to the half-dead state he was in following his botched resurrection in The End of Time. The drums are a weird one. I don't see why they were especially necessary, nor what they really add to the Master's character.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Apr 4, 2018 13:00:17 GMT
The Doctor was half human in the tv movie, but it was Moffat that introduced the Hybrid. And, I'm still waiting to find out who/what the Hybrid was. It was a waste of space and (air)time. Beyond that, I don't remember. I'm still denying the reality of 'Hell Bent' existing at all.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 4, 2018 16:55:57 GMT
I would call a half human/half Gallifreyan being a hybrid. As for the hybrid in Hell Bent. I had forgotten about that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 16:59:58 GMT
As for the hybrid in Hell Bent. I had forgotten about that. Lucky you!
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 4, 2018 17:12:44 GMT
As for the hybrid in Hell Bent. I had forgotten about that. Lucky you! Eh. It wasn't that bad. It was no Heaven Sent mind you.
|
|
|
Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 4, 2018 17:24:47 GMT
Isn't it mentioned in The Doctor Falls, that the Time Lords helped "remove" the drums, then he escaped Gallifrey? But, I do agree that the drums doesn't sit well with me and the Delgado Master. It's mentioned the Time Lords cured him of his 'condition', presumably referring to the half-dead state he was in following his botched resurrection in The End of Time. The drums are a weird one. I don't see why they were especially necessary, nor what they really add to the Master's character. That muddies the waters even more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 0:54:13 GMT
It's mentioned the Time Lords cured him of his 'condition', presumably referring to the half-dead state he was in following his botched resurrection in The End of Time. The drums are a weird one. I don't see why they were especially necessary, nor what they really add to the Master's character. That muddies the waters even more. To be fair to Russsell T Davies, the show was in it's third year. RTD was always after keeping the family audience engaged (Daleks and Cybermen fighting each other is a childhood dream come true) and The Master was a stable of many a parent's childhood, so it's understandable he'd bring him back. And while us original series fans love The Master, there is the question whether or not a large portion of the audience would engage with The Master as he was. Outside of being a Time Lord, for that audience what makes him different from any other villain of the week? And stories that pulled on The Doctor's past, on the Time War, had to shake things up and be different, with higher stakes. Given the Time War and the expectations of a modern audience, The Doctor and Master's playful relationship couldn't be told, a modern audience defiantly wouldn't go for it. There needed to be a reason why The Doctor would steer his hand from such a dangerous individual. Making The Master a more tragic figure, trying to master his own madness and having a solidified reason why The Doctor acts the way he does around him is one approach, the sharp jab of fate with The Doctor wrestling with his own darkness, the friend he'd failed, a dark consolation no longer true in the middle of his despair. I don't think it was the right approach and I don't think The Master really fitted that well into the RTD era and that the season three finale would have been better to have another Time Lord whose mind had been affected by the Time War or some such, rather then use The Master. Moffatt had an easier task in restablishing the character along more traditional lines, given he'd moved away from RTD's grounded approach to the more fantastical.
|
|
|
Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 5, 2018 8:50:10 GMT
That muddies the waters even more. To be fair to Russsell T Davies, the show was in it's third year. RTD was always after keeping the family audience engaged (Daleks and Cybermen fighting each other is a childhood dream come true) and The Master was a stable of many a parent's childhood, so it's understandable he'd bring him back. And while us original series fans love The Master, there is the question whether or not a large portion of the audience would engage with The Master as he was. Outside of being a Time Lord, for that audience what makes him different from any other villain of the week? And stories that pulled on The Doctor's past, on the Time War, had to shake things up and be different, with higher stakes. Given the Time War and the expectations of a modern audience, The Doctor and Master's playful relationship couldn't be told, a modern audience defiantly wouldn't go for it. There needed to be a reason why The Doctor would steer his hand from such a dangerous individual. Making The Master a more tragic figure, trying to master his own madness and having a solidified reason why The Doctor acts the way he does around him is one approach, the sharp jab of fate with The Doctor wrestling with his own darkness, the friend he'd failed, a dark consolation no longer true in the middle of his despair. I don't think it was the right approach and I don't think The Master really fitted that well into the RTD era and that the season three finale would have been better to have another Time Lord whose mind had been affected by the Time War or some such, rather then use The Master. Moffatt had an easier task in restablishing the character along more traditional lines, given he'd moved away from RTD's grounded approach to the more fantastical. He made him a woman.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 9:27:51 GMT
Missy is VERY Anthony Ainley, but there's a lot of Delgado in her performance (frustration with The Doctor not giving into temptation) and Moffatt had to build on from the legacy of the Jacobi and Simm incarnations, given public perception of the character, albeit more self-aware. The Simm incarnation was understandably angry that their friend killed off their people, but after being rejected by his own people AGAIN and the influence of their hazy recollections of World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls, reliased they still missed their friend and his misspent kindness. For her friend not to be lonely with the chattering apes. To bring them back to the old days and go further, to show them delight of the flame. It's a more grounded, but still fantastical take for the Moffatt era and for today's audience.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 9:29:27 GMT
To be fair to Russsell T Davies, the show was in it's third year. RTD was always after keeping the family audience engaged (Daleks and Cybermen fighting each other is a childhood dream come true) and The Master was a stable of many a parent's childhood, so it's understandable he'd bring him back. And while us original series fans love The Master, there is the question whether or not a large portion of the audience would engage with The Master as he was. Outside of being a Time Lord, for that audience what makes him different from any other villain of the week? And stories that pulled on The Doctor's past, on the Time War, had to shake things up and be different, with higher stakes. Given the Time War and the expectations of a modern audience, The Doctor and Master's playful relationship couldn't be told, a modern audience defiantly wouldn't go for it. There needed to be a reason why The Doctor would steer his hand from such a dangerous individual. Making The Master a more tragic figure, trying to master his own madness and having a solidified reason why The Doctor acts the way he does around him is one approach, the sharp jab of fate with The Doctor wrestling with his own darkness, the friend he'd failed, a dark consolation no longer true in the middle of his despair. I don't think it was the right approach and I don't think The Master really fitted that well into the RTD era and that the season three finale would have been better to have another Time Lord whose mind had been affected by the Time War or some such, rather then use The Master. Moffatt had an easier task in restablishing the character along more traditional lines, given he'd moved away from RTD's grounded approach to the more fantastical. He made him a woman. The members of this forum have agreed NOT to reopen that debate. I am talking about the character of The Master's subsequent reincarnation which is valid to the discussion that we're having.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 9:46:46 GMT
Also: I have been very open about my struggles and I do not appreciate, when I have decided to return to the forum, that you are trying to twist my words into agitating and kicking off a contentious debate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 19:32:21 GMT
I was never a fan of the Cybermen gold allergy. A misfire in Series 12 and even more baffling that the JNT era kept it.
|
|
|
Post by theotherjosh on Apr 6, 2018 18:42:45 GMT
In no particular order:
Dalek Puppets: They look ridiculous and the Daleks already had plenty of ways to control people already.
The TARDIS from the Doctor's wife: The TARDIS has an intelligence, but not a human intelligence. I appreciate some Bellatrix Lestrange cosplay as much as the next fan, but I thought making the TARDIS essentially a human being with a human's wants and needs a very boring choice.
Doctor/Companion romance: I tend to view the Doctor as asexual. I don’t even think it’s unlikely that a companion would fall in love with him, but a.)Not every one of them and b.)He wouldn’t return those affections.
Fixed Points in Time: Ugh. If they’re so easy to violate and the consequences are so catastrophic, I have no idea how the universe has endured for as long as it has.
Fixed Points, part two: There is a fairly well-known hacker koan about Marvin Minsky and Gerald Jay Sussman that illustrates the point I want to make.
To put it another way, events happen for a reason, and the universe doesn't care if you know why things happen or not. To quote Pascal: “The human being is only a reed, the most feeble in nature; but this is a thinking reed. It isn't necessary for the entire universe to arm itself in order to crush him; a whiff of vapor, a taste of water, suffices to kill him. But when the universe crushes him, the human being becomes still more noble than that which kills him, because he knows that he is dying, and the advantage that the universe has over him. The universe, it does not have a clue."
"All our dignity consists, then, in thought. This is the basis on which we must raise ourselves, and not space and time, which we would not know how to fill. Let us make it our task, then, to think well: here is the principle of morality.”
We observe a pitifully small portion of the universe, and it’s hubris of the highest order to imagine that seeing something at the wavelengths of 390 to 700 nm will lock into place for all eternity.
|
|
|
Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 7, 2018 12:27:15 GMT
The Doctor able to speak horse, and baby. Rather pathetic.
|
|
|
Post by jasonward on Apr 7, 2018 13:41:03 GMT
Some people need to read the rules, or they will find themselves getting suspended.
Stop with the attacks.
I'm tired of this petty fight.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Apr 7, 2018 14:01:59 GMT
The Doctor able to speak horse, and baby. The Doctor can presumably speak caterpillar if he wants to. The TARDIS telepathic circuits are involved and since every living thing 'thinks' at some level, even if it's just 'cabbage leaf=yum', 'bird=hide!' or (vaguely) 'where the heck did these wings suddenly come from', the Doctor can hear those thoughts as words, via the TARDIS. "Wriggle. Wiggle. Chomp, nosh, wriggle." ('Caterpillarese' isn't very expressive, unless one is an actual caterpillar, but you get my drift. )
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2018 14:19:34 GMT
All the hybrid nonsense as others have mentioned I think.
|
|