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Post by Digi on Apr 20, 2018 13:41:01 GMT
*whispers “who f—ing cares...”*
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Post by jasonward on Apr 20, 2018 13:51:20 GMT
Guys & Gals,
No topic is intrinsically too sensitive or emotive to be talked about.
What causes the moderators to act is either lots of rule breaking, OR (and this happens a lot) a lot of people complaining for some reason.
At times when we've shut down a thread, its not to stop the topic of discussion, it's to stop people from doing whatever it is they are doing, sometimes it's trolling, sometimes it's baiting, but most of all it's lack of thought and a calm head.
Talk about this, or any other subject, keep within the rules, don't get too excited and/or agitated, keep to the rules, respect each other, keep to the rules and respect the forum and it's aims.
Oh, and keep within the rules.
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Post by barnabaslives on Apr 20, 2018 14:37:13 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I certainly have nothing against the idea, and definitely it brings forward some wonderful casting opportunities. This topic is more from an in-universe point of view, without focusing too much on the behind-the-scenes reasons for the changes. In recent years, we've had an explosion of gender-changing regenerations. Just to list a few off the top of my head... In the last few years, it seems to have gone from something that was rare, to something unusual but not unexpected, to the point where it seems just about everyone is doing it. I think I will just say that what I think might make the difference between being gratuitously gimmicky with transgender regenerations (or doing lots of it "just because now they can") and simply trying to play catch up for the years it wasn't part of the series, is whether or not it tapers off when it's happened roughly as many times as it probably would have actually happened had it been part of the canon since the beginning. If it continues to happen indefinitely at the rate it's been happening lately, then I do think it could possibly become particularly obtrusive, or start to require an in-universe explanation for an increasing amount of it.
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Post by constonks on Apr 20, 2018 15:06:39 GMT
We see four Time Lords who change their body naturally in the classic series/the TV Movie, over the course of twelve regenerations.
The Doctor (seven times, eight white men) K'ampo Rimpoche (once, from a white man to a white man in yellowface) Romana (once... ish, including several false starts to different species) Borusa (three times, four white men)
Twelve instances of regeneration is not a significant sample size, and yet we based our entire understanding of regeneration on it. There's no reason to assume that, for instance, Goth wasn't a woman every time except the time she turned into Bernard Horsfall! So, as we saw more regenerations on TV, we saw more types of regenerations. And as the TV show revealed that gender swapping was possible, the expanded universe did it as well.
I don't recall gendered regeneration being called a rare event in-universe? In fact, I can remember way more things that brush it off as being nothing out of the ordinary.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 15:08:45 GMT
We see four Time Lords who change their body naturally in the classic series/the TV Movie, over the course of twelve regenerations. The Doctor (seven times, eight white men) K'ampo Rimpoche (once, from a white man to a white man in yellowface) Romana (once... ish, including several false starts to different species) Borusa (three times, four white men) Twelve instances of regeneration is not a significant sample size, and yet we based our entire understanding of regeneration on it. There's no reason to assume that, for instance, Goth wasn't a woman every time except the time she turned into Bernard Horsfall! So, as we saw more regenerations on TV, we saw more types of regenerations. And as the TV show revealed that gender swapping was possible, the expanded universe did it as well. I don't recall gendered regeneration being called a rare event in-universe? In fact, I can remember way more things that brush it off as being nothing out of the ordinary. Well said.
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Post by Zagreus on Apr 20, 2018 16:39:34 GMT
just as Romana [has] been exclusively female so far. I still like the fan-theory that "The General" is, in fact, Romana
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 20, 2018 16:50:07 GMT
Well, it's all very well really, but you may as well ask why don't we see all the trips of the Doctor where ze and hir companions have a good old time and never get into scrapes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 17:03:46 GMT
"That's the trouble with regeneration: you never quite know what you're going to get," to quote The Doctor.
Why should it be limited to gender swapping?
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 20, 2018 17:13:52 GMT
"That's the trouble with regeneration: you never quite know what you're going to get," to quote The Doctor. Why should it be limited to gender swapping? Well...IC, no reason. OOC? Budget.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 17:56:18 GMT
I'm fine with it. Does it happen too much? Well, only because the status quo was binary for so long. Once the floodgates are open and new opportunities present themself....it's understandable why writers want to go down new roads. I mean Mark Bonnar turning into Julia McKenzie? Genius.
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Post by Max Kashevsky on Apr 20, 2018 18:27:23 GMT
I mean Mark Bonnar turning into Julia McKenzie? Genius. Yeah, ideas as brilliant as this justify anything and everything. It's precisely why Doctor Who's so magical!
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Post by mrperson on Apr 20, 2018 18:37:37 GMT
"That's the trouble with regeneration: you never quite know what you're going to get," to quote The Doctor. Why should it be limited to gender swapping? I think that's more of a throwaway line... They've always been portrayed as consistently human-like in appearance. Countless stories refer to that. Apart from a few lines tucked in, and the obvious sight gag with Romana, there has never been a serious effort to address the throw-away lines. I'd rather they say unaddressed, for my part. It's simply be weird if for the first time someone regenerates into a Wookie. Yeah, the show's about change. But something like that would strike me as a silly change.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 20, 2018 18:51:05 GMT
"That's the trouble with regeneration: you never quite know what you're going to get," to quote The Doctor. Why should it be limited to gender swapping? According to Circular Time: Spring, it is definitely not limited to gender swapping.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 19:16:50 GMT
"That's the trouble with regeneration: you never quite know what you're going to get," to quote The Doctor. Why should it be limited to gender swapping? I think that's more of a throwaway line... They've always been portrayed as consistently human-like in appearance. Countless stories refer to that. Apart from a few lines tucked in, and the obvious sight gag with Romana, there has never been a serious effort to address the throw-away lines. I'd rather they say unaddressed, for my part. It's simply be weird if for the first time someone regenerates into a Wookie. Yeah, the show's about change. But something like that would strike me as a silly change. Very true. A Wookie is a creature from Star Wars mythos & would cause a lot of confusion if The Doctor regenerated into one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 19:27:43 GMT
I think that the show has always held a mirror to society and thus connected with its audience through incorporating consciously, current themes and preoccupations.
The 1960's saw a good deal of inspiration and relevance through cold war allegory story lines and indeed the Daleks arguably owe their existence as does the Empire in Star Wars, to a post war world still preoccupied by Nazism, as did the number of Invasion and Base under Siege stories.
The 1970's saw a number of stories incorporating trade unionism and rampant inflation/taxation. Feminism gained prominence in the development of companions.
What we see now reflects the growing acceptance/normalisation and indeed sensitivity towards the concept of gender fluidity and what may be termed non-binary persons. We see a growth in such characters now as awareness was not mainstream even a few years ago. Society has become more sensitive to diversity.
The show maintains its relevance to audiences by being rooted in real life as a launch pad to escapism. Ultimately we all seek to be entertained by a good story, but it holds greater interest than for example (to paraphrase Russel T Davies) it doesn't get too wrapped up about three headed creatures on the planet Zog but instead provides something relatable.
Ultimately we all watch for a rollicking story in which we can place ourselves. I agree that a twist on the concept of regeneration is a refreshing take. Naturally we then construct an in universe narrative to accommodate such changes, but ultimately, to me at least, it is part of the nature of keeping the show connected to the wider audience and not merely being far-out Sci-Fi for buffs only.
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mbt66
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Post by mbt66 on Apr 20, 2018 21:41:06 GMT
I'm fine with it. Does it happen too much? Well, only because the status quo was binary for so long. Once the floodgates are open and new opportunities present themself....it's understandable why writers want to go down new roads. I mean Mark Bonnar turning into Julia McKenzie? Genius. Yes genius indeed. I had expected and spent many a minute wondering who would be cast as The Twelve and I confess that despite the new novelty of gender swapping available to Time Lords I never considered that it would be a woman. Let alone an evil Miss Marple! I am not sure why, but I am happier with the notion of men changing into women than vice a versa because I don’t want the Rani to become the Raja or Romana to become Roman.
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Post by omega on Apr 20, 2018 21:51:02 GMT
I'm fine with it. Does it happen too much? Well, only because the status quo was binary for so long. Once the floodgates are open and new opportunities present themself....it's understandable why writers want to go down new roads. I mean Mark Bonnar turning into Julia McKenzie? Genius. Yes genius indeed. I had expected and spent many a minute wondering who would be cast as The Twelve and I confess that despite the new novelty of gender swapping available to Time Lords I never considered that it would be a woman. Let alone an evil Miss Marple! I am not sure why, but I am happier with the notion of men changing into women than vice a versa because I don’t want the Rani to become the Raja or Romana to become Roman. Surely a male Romana would go by Fred, not Roman or Shirley.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 22:31:26 GMT
I'm fine with it. Does it happen too much? Well, only because the status quo was binary for so long. Once the floodgates are open and new opportunities present themself....it's understandable why writers want to go down new roads. I mean Mark Bonnar turning into Julia McKenzie? Genius. Yes genius indeed. I had expected and spent many a minute wondering who would be cast as The Twelve and I confess that despite the new novelty of gender swapping available to Time Lords I never considered that it would be a woman. Let alone an evil Miss Marple! God, I love Big Finish's dark sense of humour. This time, Miss Marple's doing the murders!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 22:32:49 GMT
I'm fine with it. Does it happen too much? Well, only because the status quo was binary for so long. Once the floodgates are open and new opportunities present themself....it's understandable why writers want to go down new roads. I mean Mark Bonnar turning into Julia McKenzie? Genius. Yes genius indeed. I had expected and spent many a minute wondering who would be cast as The Twelve and I confess that despite the new novelty of gender swapping available to Time Lords I never considered that it would be a woman. Let alone an evil Miss Marple! I am not sure why, but I am happier with the notion of men changing into women than vice a versa because I don’t want the Rani to become the Raja or Romana to become Roman. I think it's because we have less strong female main player villians in canon and in genre,generally or, as well. Same with Romana, she's a main player in canon who stands equal to The Doctor in capability.
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Post by elkawho on Apr 27, 2018 3:21:55 GMT
I'm in the minority. Still not completely on board with gender swapping of Time Lords generally. As for The Doctor's regeneration, I'm trying not to see it as a kick in the gut. In my head, I do like to think of it as a rare occurrence in order to get around my reservations regarding it. So yes, I do believe it's become too common.
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