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Post by mark687 on Oct 15, 2018 12:53:58 GMT
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Post by constonks on Oct 15, 2018 15:08:57 GMT
This is actually the most eager I've been to listen to a Main Range story in a long time (probably since The Two Masters) because we're getting actual plot movement with the Seven Ace Mel strand! Plus Dogbolter! Plus Narvin! Gosh I hope this lives up to my unfairly high expectations.
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Post by omega on Oct 16, 2018 8:10:33 GMT
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Post by Timelord007 on Oct 16, 2018 8:20:16 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Oct 16, 2018 11:47:15 GMT
A bit uneven in tone, good performances all round, American Fans thoughts will probably make interesting reading.
Regards
mark687
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 16, 2018 21:10:10 GMT
Technically I'm not in favor of getting near to the farcical in order to authentically recapture the feel of a TV era (or to comment on the cartoonish natures of certain prominent real-life people) and I worry that stories like that will end up at the bottom of my list of what's worth a second spin (as they often tend to do with there being so many stories) even if they turn out to be among the best of their lot.
That being said, I thought this was an excellent story, and even for as little as I could take the antagonists seriously, I couldn't tear myself away from this until I'd finished it, which says a great deal indeed. All of the performances were totally top-notch in my book, and I'm more impressed than ever with Guy Adams at how well he does whimsy here after the way he's excelled at more serious stories.
I guess it's good to just let Big Finish have a bit of fun once in awhile and occasionally try their hand at getting me to like things that it's highly improbable I'm going to like, such as The Scorchies (or musicals in general, for that matter) or Beep or even that big talking bird. It's certainly not like I couldn't tell what I was getting myself into just by looking at the cover, is it? :-)
I'd give it two stars at being the sort of story I prefer - but to judge it on its own terms, I'll give it four and one-third stars for being very entertaining in general, and for just how well I think it did at being what it was trying to be.
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Post by omega on Oct 16, 2018 21:19:46 GMT
An underwhelming story. Narvin added nothing at all to the story, apart from delivering exposition and releasing the Doctor from a prison cell. Ace in a relationship was done far better in a previous story because we explored what it meant to her instead of being told it means something to her. When in this story she feels sad about leaving Alex it doesn’t ring right because we barely know anything about this relationship. The ingredients are all there, but together don’t make anything satisfying. A rare Guy Adams misfire.
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Post by TimPendragon on Oct 17, 2018 2:07:49 GMT
It'll be a while before I get to this one in my listening, but I do have to ask... is it just me, or does it seem wrong for Dogbolter to be appearing in a story without Frobisher?
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Post by tardybox on Oct 18, 2018 23:52:32 GMT
An underwhelming story. Narvin added nothing at all to the story, apart from delivering exposition and releasing the Doctor from a prison cell. Ace in a relationship was done far better in a previous story because we explored what it meant to her instead of being told it means something to her. When in this story she feels sad about leaving Alex it doesn’t ring right because we barely know anything about this relationship. The ingredients are all there, but together don’t make anything satisfying. A rare Guy Adams misfire. Agreed. Quantum feels like an odd mishmash of the Seventh Doctor's greatest Big Finish hits (it's pretty much The Architects of History by way of Death in the Family) but without much else interesting going on. The world that the Doctor, Ace, and Narvin find themselves in is the kind of world that would be great fun to explore, but there's next to no worldbuilding beyond the traditional scifi trope of "Humans are idiots and can be manipulated by Very Powerful People because they're too interested in entertainment to care about the world around them!" Nothing much seemed to actually happen in the story itself, and I'm honestly not sure what the impact of Quantum will be in the future for the TARDIS team or even any of the secondary characters. On a positive note, I thought HOB was rather well written and played, and the concept of an Engine made from pieces of a TARDIS that can be used to rewrite history is fascinating if not executed to its fullest potential. I was rather looking forward to this one, so it's a bit of a shame to find that I've not enjoyed it as much as I'd have liked.
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Post by DavidHogan on Oct 19, 2018 18:02:21 GMT
While I'd agree its no deep masterpiece, it is a fun, suitably comic book-y tale that I couldn't help but listen to with a big smile on my face. Dogbolter and Hob were straight out of an 80s/early 90s cartoon and there were some actually well written modern satire as well (take that Silurian Candidate!)
Certainly the best of the Seventh-Ace-Mel trilogies, though that's damning with faint praise a tad...
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Post by omega on Oct 19, 2018 20:21:04 GMT
An underwhelming story. Narvin added nothing at all to the story, apart from delivering exposition and releasing the Doctor from a prison cell. Ace in a relationship was done far better in a previous story because we explored what it meant to her instead of being told it means something to her. When in this story she feels sad about leaving Alex it doesn’t ring right because we barely know anything about this relationship. The ingredients are all there, but together don’t make anything satisfying. A rare Guy Adams misfire. Agreed. Quantum feels like an odd mishmash of the Seventh Doctor's greatest Big Finish hits (it's pretty much The Architects of History by way of Death in the Family) but without much else interesting going on. The world that the Doctor, Ace, and Narvin find themselves in is the kind of world that would be great fun to explore, but there's next to no worldbuilding beyond the traditional scifi trope of "Humans are idiots and can be manipulated by Very Powerful People because they're too interested in entertainment to care about the world around them!" Nothing much seemed to actually happen in the story itself, and I'm honestly not sure what the impact of Quantum will be in the future for the TARDIS team or even any of the secondary characters. On a positive note, I thought HOB was rather well written and played, and the concept of an Engine made from pieces of a TARDIS that can be used to rewrite history is fascinating if not executed to its fullest potential. I was rather looking forward to this one, so it's a bit of a shame to find that I've not enjoyed it as much as I'd have liked. I was half thinking this would lead into later Gallifrey stories, such as Narvin seeing Ace in action and learning that despite being a human she has some usable skills (thus fleshing out their relationship in Intervention Earth and Enemy Lines). The concept of a cannibalised TARDIS for temporal trickery and reset button shenanigans is hardly original, that’s precisely what the Paradox Machine in the series 3 finale was was. It even acts as a reset button ex machina, much like Narvin engineers at the end of this story. The race valuing themselves based on their PR has potential, but it wasn’t explored. We could have had a leader conflicted between the crowd pleasing status quo and improving things at the potential cost of the good PR like the governor in Vengeance on Varos. Instead the race come off as generic doomsday peddlers who the Doctor defeats all to easily (and with a method Dogbolter of all people should have come up with!).
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Post by vivdunstan on Oct 19, 2018 23:40:06 GMT
I'm listening to it at the moment. I'm going in pretty blind re the recurring characters. I would have read some of the Dogbolter comics in DWM in the 80s, but can't remember a thing. And I don't know anything about Narvin either. But I'm coping fine, and seem to be stuck with a big grin on my face much of the time, which is good!
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Post by vivdunstan on Oct 20, 2018 3:02:47 GMT
Finished listening now, and I enjoyed that hugely. It sagged a little for me in the final episode, but overall I thought it was just huge fun, made me laugh throughout, and was a fantastically inventive story, especially making good use of Mel. Just great. Thanks Big Finish!
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Post by slithe on Oct 24, 2018 8:53:47 GMT
Hmmm... A mixed bag this one. Have just finished listening to it and I genuinely am not sure what to make of it. On the one hand, it isn't dire (and is certainly a step up from The Dispossessed). I also liked the satire and the more serious points that the story was trying to make. On the other hand, it felt rather underwhelming in parts and the whole thing was very much solved by a deus ex machina type ending that wasn't particularly well developed or explained to the listener.
The first half of this was certainly stronger. The opening episode in particular was good - the early scenes with Mel and Dogbolter are great. The concept of a Quantum Possibility Engine is also interesting and makes for an interesting premise - particularly how it can be used by politicians to 're-write' the past/avoid 'negative futures' and ensure that campaign promises are met. A great updating of Orwell's approach in 1984 here with 'Memory Holes'. The use of social media and technology to spread false/misleading information is also a subtle nod to current day approaches to politics. The idea that people vote for populists 'because they tell them what they want to hear' is also a nice theme, which justifies that Dogbolter isn't really a tyrant just someone who peddles myths/dreams that people fall into and has little real solutions to problems. Whilst it is obvious who Dogbolter was parodying, it could have been any politician.
However, once this is set up - it doesn't really go anywhere. There is no explanation as to why the Doctor, Ace and Narvin are given new identities and roles on Earth. Whilst McCoy comes across well as a cleaner (a similar role that he's played before in various stories), there is not explanation as to how he is able to overcome the Quantum Possibility Engine (apart from remembering) and it is heavily implied that he's manipulated the system via the information that he gives to Mel. Has the Seventh plotted this all along? One wonders as the dramatic irony at the end with the Doctor saying Mel that 'friends trust each other and tell each other things' (with Ace's reaction) implies that the Seventh has had a hand in this somewhere. McCoy comes out of this one far better - again, I think this one fits his political bent - the satire and the chance to jibe at those in power (his aside about credibility being thrown into the garbage is quite a good indication of this). There is less shouty-ness and rolled Rrss here and several different nuances to the character are displayed.
Langford comes across well here as Mel. By taking centre stage (and splitting the TARDIS team) she gets to survive on her own (or at least she thinks she is?). Her interactions with HOB are amusing and she gets to show a more ruthless streak than we are used to, perhaps showing that she is not quite who the Doctor thinks she is either. Certainly, a step up on how Mel has been portrayed in recent stories. The quality of Langford's acting shines here and, unfortunately, she does overshadow Aldred. Ace doesn't do much here and comes across as quite wooden in places - the default 'shouty' teenager mode doesn't work quite as well in these more subtle stories. Just like Davison will benefit from a break from Nyssa, I think McCoy will benefit from some Ace-less stories in the future - especially now this 'arc' is wrapped up.
A better release and a slightly better trilogy. Still think that McCoy's releases are weaker compared to the others - especially Davison (who has really improved in quality in the past two trilogies) and Baker (who is always excellent). Big Finish need to find a new approach for McCoy's Doctor - I think political/satirical approaches fit with his style and this is shown in stories that fit this e.g. The Assassination Games, We are the Daleks, A Thousand Tiny Wings, etc. Hopefully, Warlock's Cross will show that it is the approach, rather than the actor, that is the problem.
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Post by mrperson on Oct 24, 2018 21:03:11 GMT
A rare misfire, at least lately. It gets a "meh" from me.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Oct 25, 2018 0:40:53 GMT
A rare misfire, at least lately. It gets a "meh" from me. Not even a meh from me, this was crap.
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Post by Timelord007 on Oct 25, 2018 7:07:59 GMT
Listened to it last night, i haven't a clue what the hell this one was about & one of the characters sounded like Mrs Brown which took me out of the story.
Then again my mindset wasn't tuned in for Doctor Who as we received some very upsetting news so I'll give it a re-listen.
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Post by The Matt on Oct 25, 2018 9:45:49 GMT
i think i am in the minority here as i thought this story was very enjoyable. Obviously it'll never go down as one of the best ever but i thought it was very much a fun listen although there were a few plot holes and it was a tad anticlimactic.
I think that Toby Longworth really made the story. i'd like to hear him back as Dogbolter in the future.
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Post by omega on Oct 25, 2018 16:51:51 GMT
It feels like there’s no direction for this team beyond nostalgia purposes and that the actors enjoy being together. At least the Older Nyssa trilogies has the Richters Syndrome subplot to carry through the narratives. It’s frustrating because the Doctor, Ace and Mel are being played safe, written with their season 24 characterisations unless the plot calls for it. This is a Doctor and Ace who have been through everything with Hex, which led to Ace getting angry with the Doctor a few times and Mel has had everything with Glitz. None of them should be default mode season 24. Mel should be more wary and more dubious, Ace should be seriously conflicted about her toxic relationship with the Doctor (despite how angry he makes her she just can’t leave him unless it’s under very bad circumstances). This story felt the perfect point to wrap up this team, but it’s back to business as usual with no long lasting lessons I can see learned. Come on, Narvin and Gallifrey, knowing where Ace will end up? Golden opportunity!
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Stevo
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 5,949
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Post by Stevo on Oct 26, 2018 10:37:25 GMT
I thought The Quantum Possibility Engine was a very dull story. I found it a chore to get to the finish... and the ending was a let down when I did get there! Being nice, I gave this 2/5 in the poll as there was a couple of fun bits... but on another day it could be worse. It's not the worst Seventh Doctor audio ever but The Quantum Possibility Engine just didn't work for me.
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