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Post by cjr on Nov 8, 2022 20:21:50 GMT
And that’s the thing: you know walking into Minotaur that it’s going to be expensive. Until October 31st, we were unknowingly thinking that JUST pre-order prices were going up.
Let me be clear: I don’t begrudge BF making money. I disagree with the unadvertised price hike for international shoppers. And no, I don’t think the price warning from 2019 counts. For any first-time customer who bought after mid-2919, they’d have no clue why this was happening. Who’d find that news piece and feel warned of this price hike unless directed to it? A news piece /banner on the website at the beginning of October to put the case (without the mysterious UK customers ripping-off BF as justification) would have been better. Putting a news item up later in the day and only dating it as October, makes me think it’s a SNAFU. Putting prices up in increments would have been appreciated.
But what’s done is done. And given the way BF have tried to take the edge off the hike, I’m not feeling motivated to buy anything unless I get a discount now. The stories need to be pretty well loved, and make an order over 50£, or have been out for long enough to show a price drop.
I’ve gone from ordering everything BF as a pre-order to being leery of parting with my money.
For the love of stories.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 11, 2022 16:22:04 GMT
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Post by Kestrel on Nov 11, 2022 17:36:24 GMT
Every time I check n one the site and see those prices, I get that much more fed up.
I'm beginning to wonder if Big Finish just assumed a significant percentage (or even a majority) of their international sales were from people in the UK trying to get a better deal, and that the actual overseas fanbase was much smaller than their sales would suggest. That they could just massively alienate all of us and the effect would be negligible.
Just going back to look at my purchases this past year... several of my favorite stories (EG Peladon) I probably would've skipped at these prices, and those I would've taken the risk on... generally aren't among my favorites. I dunno, I think this may wind up being the last straw for me. Earlier, I estimated I'd probably only be buying half as much from them... now, I'm thinking it'll be closer ro 20%, or even 10%.
I don't know that I'd ever have qualified as a "whale," here, but I used to buy maybe 2 or 3 new boxsets per month, plus at least 3 or 4 (or many more) older titles, especially during sales. A lot of impulse buys, just because a story seemed interesting, or was written by someone whose work I'd liked in the past, or because I'd heard good things from fellow fans.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 11, 2022 18:06:46 GMT
Every time I check n one the site and see those prices, I get that much more fed up. I'm beginning to wonder if Big Finish just assumed a significant percentage (or even a majority) of their international sales were from people in the UK trying to get a better deal, and that the actual overseas fanbase was much smaller than their sales would suggest. That they could just massively alienate all of us and the effect would be negligible. Just going back to look at my purchases this past year... several of my favorite stories (EG Peladon) I probably would've skipped at these prices, and those I would've taken the risk on... generally aren't among my favorites. I dunno, I think this may wind up being the last straw for me. Earlier, I estimated I'd probably only be buying half as much from them... now, I'm thinking it'll be closer ro 20%, or even 10%. I don't know that I'd ever have qualified as a "whale," here, but I used to buy maybe 2 or 3 new boxsets per month, plus at least 3 or 4 (or many more) older titles, especially during sales. A lot of impulse buys, just because a story seemed interesting, or was written by someone whose work I'd liked in the past, or because I'd heard good things from fellow fans. Well, I cannot remember who of the BF associated people said it, and where they said it, but there was the number of 20% foreign customer base floating about.
I am not sure if this a high or low estimate (for this, I do not know the markets and the fan base in other countries). But even if it is "only" 20%, that is still a large number of people to alienate.
And I am in a similar boat as you are. I am not buying stuff on a whim anymore.
As for being considered a whale.... Probably anyone who buys a box set every two months counts as one?
I am definitely considered one. Colin Baker even told me (upon me mentioning I have all of his BF stories) "Thank you for making me a rich man".
EDIT: Don't you find it concerning that absolute "Über-Fans" as we are now throwing around heretic thoughts like above?
Imagine what "normal" people will say.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 11, 2022 19:18:23 GMT
Every time I check n one the site and see those prices, I get that much more fed up. I'm beginning to wonder if Big Finish just assumed a significant percentage (or even a majority) of their international sales were from people in the UK trying to get a better deal, and that the actual overseas fanbase was much smaller than their sales would suggest. That they could just massively alienate all of us and the effect would be negligible. Just going back to look at my purchases this past year... several of my favorite stories (EG Peladon) I probably would've skipped at these prices, and those I would've taken the risk on... generally aren't among my favorites. I dunno, I think this may wind up being the last straw for me. Earlier, I estimated I'd probably only be buying half as much from them... now, I'm thinking it'll be closer ro 20%, or even 10%. I don't know that I'd ever have qualified as a "whale," here, but I used to buy maybe 2 or 3 new boxsets per month, plus at least 3 or 4 (or many more) older titles, especially during sales. A lot of impulse buys, just because a story seemed interesting, or was written by someone whose work I'd liked in the past, or because I'd heard good things from fellow fans. Well, I cannot remember who of the BF associated people said it, and where they said it, but there was the number of 20% foreign customer base floating about.
I am not sure if this a high or low estimate (for this, I do not know the markets and the fan base in other countries). But even if it is "only" 20%, that is still a large number of people to alienate.
And I am in a similar boat as you are. I am not buying stuff on a whim anymore.
As for being considered a whale.... Probably anyone who buys a box set every two months counts as one?
I am definitely considered one. Colin Baker even told me (upon me mentioning I have all of his BF stories) "Thank you for making me a rich man".
EDIT: Don't you find it concerning that absolute "Über-Fans" as we are now throwing around heretic thoughts like above?
Imagine what "normal" people will say.
This is true. People on this site are the those that are as you say Uber-Fans. If we are feeling this way how will it impact on the average customer, or any potential new ones? If they even exist!
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Post by sidestep on Nov 11, 2022 19:18:48 GMT
Every time I check n one the site and see those prices, I get that much more fed up. I'm beginning to wonder if Big Finish just assumed a significant percentage (or even a majority) of their international sales were from people in the UK trying to get a better deal, and that the actual overseas fanbase was much smaller than their sales would suggest. That they could just massively alienate all of us and the effect would be negligible. Just going back to look at my purchases this past year... several of my favorite stories (EG Peladon) I probably would've skipped at these prices, and those I would've taken the risk on... generally aren't among my favorites. I dunno, I think this may wind up being the last straw for me. Earlier, I estimated I'd probably only be buying half as much from them... now, I'm thinking it'll be closer ro 20%, or even 10%. I don't know that I'd ever have qualified as a "whale," here, but I used to buy maybe 2 or 3 new boxsets per month, plus at least 3 or 4 (or many more) older titles, especially during sales. A lot of impulse buys, just because a story seemed interesting, or was written by someone whose work I'd liked in the past, or because I'd heard good things from fellow fans. Same feeling here, Kestrel, especially looking at that Cass & Time War 6 bundle preorder price. In the past, that would’ve been instant preorder on announcement day regardless of release date (which I did for Brig. Bambera, Unit Nemesis, Gallifrey War Room, Rani, etc, considering it would be years until some of those series are complete). Now, I guess I’ll wait until Time War 6 is released in April 2024, & go through my backlog in the meantime. I would’ve skipped Peladon as well. And Cicero, ATA Girl, & Terrahawks. Glad I took the risk, because they were great releases.
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Post by kipperserver on Nov 11, 2022 22:21:39 GMT
Sorry, don't want to seem mean here but while I can understand why Oz and New Zealand ppl being upset about paying more than before, it is only fair.
I just checked prices of Coke in the uS - 2l bottle is $2.48 = £2.10. UK equivalant is 1.25l bottle (smaller) for £2.0 also available in Ox for $3.55 = £2.02. Roughly the same as UK.
Americans get a better deal on Coke that the rest of us have to pay a bit extra. But ppl aren't all over the Coke company slagging them off. Things shoudl cost the same.
Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now (which will kill the company for all of us) because they now have to pay what we've been paying for years.
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Post by masterdoctor on Nov 11, 2022 22:28:05 GMT
Sorry, don't want to seem mean here but while I can understand why Oz and New Zealand ppl being upset about paying more than before, it is only fair. I just checked prices of Coke in the uS - 2l bottle is $2.48 = £2.10. UK equivalant is 1.25l bottle (smaller) for £2.0 also available in Ox for $3.55 = £2.02. Roughly the same as UK. Americans get a better deal on Coke that the rest of us have to pay a bit extra. But ppl aren't all over the Coke company slagging them off. Things shoudl cost the same. Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now (which will kill the company for all of us) because they now have to pay what we've been paying for years. I mean, no one here has said that they are going to pirate BF because of this, and most people aren't even upset that prices have changed. People are upset because with a change of this magnitude, Big Finish have handled it incredibly poorly, with minimal communication, and only given details when forced to, instead if being upfront about things that affect their customer base. I struggle to see why you have conflated the two to be honest, to the point of using international customers as a straw man for piracy. I understand that you might no be looking to seem mean, but you are coming off obtuse(I assume unintentionally) to why people are upset.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 11, 2022 22:36:14 GMT
Sorry, don't want to seem mean here but while I can understand why Oz and New Zealand ppl being upset about paying more than before, it is only fair. I just checked prices of Coke in the uS - 2l bottle is $2.48 = £2.10. UK equivalant is 1.25l bottle (smaller) for £2.0 also available in Ox for $3.55 = £2.02. Roughly the same as UK. Americans get a better deal on Coke that the rest of us have to pay a bit extra. But ppl aren't all over the Coke company slagging them off. Things shoudl cost the same. Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now (which will kill the company for all of us) because they now have to pay what we've been paying for years. Its the appalling way in which this has been communicated & the lies, yes LIES from BF about price increases. Their attitude to their customers is complacent at best.
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Post by Kestrel on Nov 11, 2022 23:05:11 GMT
Don't you find it concerning that absolute "Über-Fans" as we are now throwing around heretic thoughts like above? Imagine what "normal" people will say. It really doesn't take much imagination... trying to get new fans into Big Finish was always an uphill battle, even when the main product was just the £13 Monthly Range releases. Then they transitioned to the more expensive boxset format, which was an even harder sell... and then they did that stealth price hike on boxsets just last year, making them that much more unattractive... and now there's this blanket price increase site-wide. I've had those conversations. I've convinced new fans to take the plunge and try a few good standalone stories out. I will not be doing that again. More "normal" fans aren't even going to think twice about getting into Big Finish now, and I don't blame them. Or if they are interested, they'll just stick to what they can get for free -- whether it's through Spotify of piracy. Let's not kid ourselves, there's always been a contingent of fans pirating Big Finish audios... and in the last 2 years or so, virtually every single thing Big Finish may as well have been deliberately contrived to increase that number. It is amazing how much that Gabe Newell quote keeps being relevant. It's probably completely unnecessary to paste in in here, but here it is: And... yeah. People will pay money for goods or services that they value -- people want to pay for media they value. But that requires, you know, considering your audience and meeting them halfway. Taking advantage of the loyal customers who are willing to still buy your products by fleecing them for as much as you can... is not, historically, a successful tactic. This is the exact same mindset that led to the near-collapse of the music and video game industries in the early 2000s. It is not a sustainable model.
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Post by cjr on Nov 11, 2022 23:10:20 GMT
Sorry, don't want to seem mean here but while I can understand why Oz and New Zealand ppl being upset about paying more than before, it is only fair. I just checked prices of Coke in the uS - 2l bottle is $2.48 = £2.10. UK equivalant is 1.25l bottle (smaller) for £2.0 also available in Ox for $3.55 = £2.02. Roughly the same as UK. Americans get a better deal on Coke that the rest of us have to pay a bit extra. But ppl aren't all over the Coke company slagging them off. Things shoudl cost the same. Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now (which will kill the company for all of us) because they now have to pay what we've been paying for years. If anything, comments have been more along the lines of “I’ve not loved a lot of the BF storytelling, and at this price I’ll be more selective” rather than any suggestion of piracy. As pointed out above, it’s the less than truthful nature of the bait and switch that is hard to swallow. Everyone is doing it tough. International customers only make up a smaller proportion of the customer base for BF. They chose this as the best way forward for them, great. I know that for a set like Eight Doctor Time War 5/6, I’ll not preorder, but wait until April 2024. See what the reviews are like, and bundle it with something to go above 50£. Or, just forget about it, as I have a large back catalogue. No big deal. I’m just one customer. I’m not in a situation yet where I’m choosing food for my three children over heating. In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing. But multiplied by however many sales will no longer be made… 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by sidestep on Nov 12, 2022 0:30:17 GMT
Will probably still buy many things. Just…when the last volume of the series is released (whenever that will be years from now), & give tomorrow’s money tomorrow.
Instead of usually preordering on announcement day/week, & give tomorrow’s money today. (Which I used to do, hence the 54 unreleased download volumes in my account, with 4 volumes tba. Now 7 tba, 3 that used to have release dates are now tba apparently).
If anything, this just served as an eye opener on my less-than-practical, impulsive completist borderline-indiscriminate buying tendencies. That’s on me. So will just be more prudent going forward.
Just one international customer anyway.
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Post by kipperserver on Nov 12, 2022 0:30:36 GMT
I've seen comments above in this thread to the effect of "I can't defend BF against piracy any more". That sounds to me like justifying it. And, let's be clear, this response is 100% a reaction ti people having to pay the same price that UK customers have had to do for years.
Yes, BF fudged up warning people this would happen but they provided reasons why. The cost of living crisis doesn't just apply to us customers.
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Post by kipperserver on Nov 12, 2022 0:37:42 GMT
Copied and posted from Gallifrey Base:
"I just ordered the new full cast 8DA Time War download bundle which cost me AUD $72.04 which works out at about $9.00 per hour. Currently single voice BBC Audio Originals cost AUD $13.99 on Apple Books (generally between 70-80 minutes) so about $10.50 per hour. This seems more than comparable value to me."
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Post by masterdoctor on Nov 12, 2022 0:44:49 GMT
I've seen comments above in this thread to the effect of "I can't defend BF against piracy any more". That sounds to me like justifying it. And, let's be clear, this response is 100% a reaction ti people having to pay the same price that UK customers have had to do for years. Yes, BF fudged up warning people this would happen but they provided reasons why. The cost of living crisis doesn't just apply to us customers. People are noting that this decision will lead to more piracy. That is a statement, and doesn't actually comment on whether that is ok or not. I am against piracy full stop, but I would be naive to think that this move won't lead to more piracy of some degree. Again, it seems you are using international customers legitimate complaints as a scapegoat against piracy, when the two do not equate.
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Post by masterdoctor on Nov 12, 2022 0:47:13 GMT
I've seen comments above in this thread to the effect of "I can't defend BF against piracy any more". That sounds to me like justifying it. And, let's be clear, this response is 100% a reaction ti people having to pay the same price that UK customers have had to do for years. Yes, BF fudged up warning people this would happen but they provided reasons why. The cost of living crisis doesn't just apply to us customers. And just as an fyi, I would be very careful in suggesting that people are ok with piracy here, as that is a huge allegation with no proof to back it up
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Post by timleschild on Nov 12, 2022 0:51:03 GMT
I've seen comments above in this thread to the effect of "I can't defend BF against piracy any more". That sounds to me like justifying it. And, let's be clear, this response is 100% a reaction ti people having to pay the same price that UK customers have had to do for years. Yes, BF fudged up warning people this would happen but they provided reasons why. The cost of living crisis doesn't just apply to us customers. Well you are wrong. It isn't justifying it. & you also claimed people here said they were going to use piracy to obtain BF releases. This is not true & a serious accusation. Also this is not a case of fudged warning it is an outright lie on the part of BF. & not the first time they've acted in a way that shows a disregard for their customers. It is not a "100% a reaction to people having to pay the same price that UK customers have had to do for years." It is a reaction to how awful BF are in the way they communicate changes, often changes that they should have resolved years ago.
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Post by kipperserver on Nov 12, 2022 0:52:03 GMT
Sorry but I do not condone piracy but in this instance sadly I don't blame or condemn anyone that resorts to that method. Here is someone literally refusing to condemn piracy. Thus might not upset you but it does upset me.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 12, 2022 0:57:51 GMT
Sorry but I do not condone piracy but in this instance sadly I don't blame or condemn anyone that resorts to that method. Here is someone literally refusing to condemn piracy. Thus might not upset you but it does upset me. Yes I am not condemning it but as I said, nor do I condone it. Does it upset me. Yes. Can I understand why peoplr would resort to it, sadly yes. But seeing as we're going through peoples comments. You said "Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now". Who said that?
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Post by kipperserver on Nov 12, 2022 0:58:21 GMT
I don't even think I can recommend Big Finish audios to potential new fans in good conscience any more, nor am I able to condemn piracy, even half-heartedly, as I once did. Here is a second person refusing to condemn piracy. I will have to step back from this discussion now because I may say something I'll regret. But do not accuse me if making up fictional comments.
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