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Post by masterdoctor on Nov 12, 2022 1:00:56 GMT
Sorry but I do not condone piracy but in this instance sadly I don't blame or condemn anyone that resorts to that method. Here is someone literally refusing to condemn piracy. Thus might not upset you but it does upset me. Well, I cannot speak for timleschild in this instance, but I am reading their comment as understanding why people might be lead to piracy. I think there is a poor choice of words in the post, but I also do understand why people choose to pirate. Understanding does not equate to condoning the behaviour(which timleschild said). And again, accusations of piracy because people are upset about Big Finish's complete lack of communication and lie of what changes were coming is a gross conflation of the issue that comes across as in bad faith.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 12, 2022 1:01:23 GMT
I don't even think I can recommend Big Finish audios to potential new fans in good conscience any more, nor am I able to condemn piracy, even half-heartedly, as I once did. Here is a second person refusing to condemn piracy. I will have to step back from this discussion now because I may say something I'll regret. But do not accuse me if making up fictional comments. You said "Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now". Who said they are going to pirate BF stuff now?
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Post by mark687 on Nov 12, 2022 1:02:23 GMT
In simlair vein BF have been poor commutators but they haven't strictly Lied the Poor Communications has meant changes have happened that we know were coming, just not the one the June News Piece implied
Regards
mark687
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Post by timleschild on Nov 12, 2022 1:05:49 GMT
In simlair vein BF have been poor commutators but they haven't strictly Lied the Poor Communications has meant changes have happened that we know were coming, just not the one we implied the June News Piece to mean. Regards mark687 They haven't strictly lied? Sounds like a Bill Clinton defence, I smoked weed but didn't inhale lol
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Post by masterdoctor on Nov 12, 2022 1:07:57 GMT
In simlair vein BF have been poor commutators but they haven't strictly Lied the Poor Communications has meant changes have happened that we know were coming, just not the one the June News Piece implied Regards mark687 I'll have to disagree Mark, though I understand where you are coming from. In June, they said November 1st would bring changes to pre-order prices across the board. It didn't, and what we got instead was entirely different policy regarding overseas customers and exchange rates. Those are two different things and I think to say Big Finish lied, and misrepresented what they were doing is entirely fair in this case.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 12, 2022 1:09:26 GMT
In simlair vein BF have been poor commutators but they haven't strictly Lied the Poor Communications has meant changes have happened that we know were coming, just not the one we implied the June News Piece to mean. Regards mark687 They haven't strictly lied? Sounds like a Bill Clinton defence, I smoked weed but didn't inhale lol Its all the language of Commerce I suppose Regards mark687
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Post by mark687 on Nov 12, 2022 1:14:48 GMT
In simlair vein BF have been poor commutators but they haven't strictly Lied the Poor Communications has meant changes have happened that we know were coming, just not the one the June News Piece implied Regards mark687 I'll have to disagree Mark, though I understand where you are coming from. In June, they said November 1st would bring changes to pre-order prices across the board. It didn't, and what we got instead was entirely different policy regarding overseas customers and exchange rates. Those are two different things and I think to say Big Finish lied, and misrepresented what they were doing is entirely fair in this case. Fair Enough Should we all keep screaming "LAIR in the Crowded Theater" though? Regards mark687
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Post by timleschild on Nov 12, 2022 1:17:08 GMT
I'll have to disagree Mark, though I understand where you are coming from. In June, they said November 1st would bring changes to pre-order prices across the board. It didn't, and what we got instead was entirely different policy regarding overseas customers and exchange rates. Those are two different things and I think to say Big Finish lied, and misrepresented what they were doing is entirely fair in this case. Fair Enough Should we all keep screaming "LAIR in the Crowded Theater" though? Regards mark687 Liar in the crowded theatre? That reference went over my head.
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Post by masterdoctor on Nov 12, 2022 1:21:40 GMT
I'll have to disagree Mark, though I understand where you are coming from. In June, they said November 1st would bring changes to pre-order prices across the board. It didn't, and what we got instead was entirely different policy regarding overseas customers and exchange rates. Those are two different things and I think to say Big Finish lied, and misrepresented what they were doing is entirely fair in this case. Fair Enough Should we all keep screaming "LAIR in the Crowded Theater" though? Regards mark687 I'm not sure what you mean? Are you asking if people shouldn't call this out and how it affects them just because others have said it? Or that to call it a lie in unfair to Big Finish? Sorry, but just want to clarify before responding so that I can actually do so in a meaningful way .
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 12, 2022 1:45:59 GMT
Look, we all know the business end of BF is ham-fisted, wish-washy and often incompetent. Did they intentionally lie about their plans or as they dug into to it, did the plans evolve away from what they originally intended? Who knows? I just just don’t get being getting all hot under the collar over it. BF has always been a luxury, niche purchase. We live in a world of runaway inflation. The cost of BF was bound to go up at some point. No one is holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to purchase BF. I certainly don’t understand why people should have a chip on their shoulder about the “unfairness” of what the American market paid for BF. Yeah, there should have been a currency conservation scheme in place a decade ago but there wasn’t. That is Big Finish’s doing. Yes, piracy is wrong. I make part of my income every year from residuals, so privacy is a touchy subject for me in general but again, let’s keep things in perspective. I continue to believe, as I think most people around here seem to, that this is less a case of what they did but more how they did it. And again, if you’ve followed them for any amount of time you know screwing up the communication is par for the course. I don’t know. It’s a day that ends in “Y” for BF.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 12, 2022 1:47:41 GMT
Look, we all know the business end of BF is ham-fisted, wish-washy and often incompetent. Did they intentionally lie about their plans or as they dug into to it, did the plans evolve away from what they originally intended? Who knows? I just just don’t get being getting all hot under the collar over it. BF has always been a luxury, niche purchase. We live in a world of runaway inflation. The cost of BF was bound to go up at some point. No one is holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to purchase BF. I certainly don’t understand why people should have a chip on their shoulder about the “unfairness” of what the American market paid for BF. Yeah, there should have been a currency conservation scheme in place a decade ago but there wasn’t. That is Big Finish’s doing. Yes, piracy is wrong. I make part of my income every year from residuals, so privacy is a touchy subject for me in general but again, let’s keep things in perspective. I continue to believe, as I think most people around here seem to, that this is less a case of what they did but more how they did it. And again, if you’ve followed them for any amount of time you know screwing up the communication is par for the course. I don’t know. It’s a day that ends in “Y” for BF. It shouldn't be par for the course.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 12, 2022 2:07:42 GMT
I’m an Australian customer who has definitely taken advantage of the fact that the prices have just had the currency markers swapped over for a decade now. The company has said repeatedly that they were going to put some kind of parity in place for quite a few years now. But I’m looking on it like their raising of postal charges: they said that for many years they were taking a hit on postage because they were being charged more than they could afford for postage. They took that hit for many years until they genuinely couldn’t afford it and then passed on a more realistic charge to us. It hurt, but as someone who buys a lot of stuff online to be posted to me, it’s something that I put up with from a lot of companies. Then there’s been Brexit which has hit them from so many angles, like the packaging of cds which has gone up, the cost of art in the liners - which caused some people, a ridiculous amount of heartache, as I recall because there weren’t as many pictures in the releases any more. Now we’ve gotten a new increase. They’ve given us plenty of warning. Has it been a mess? Yes? Have the prices risen a lot? Yes. That’s life, unfortunately: prices are going up all over the place. Luxury items like audio plays have always been on my list of things that I’m ok with some day not being able to buy as much of in the future. I get that most folks are grumbling because they’ve been affected financially in many areas and this is a bridge too far for them; I get that the plays are important to a lot of people for mental health and escapism issues. It doesn’t seem fair, but I’d rather have less BF than none at all and these increases - handled as badly as some people perceive them to be - are the better alternative than the company going to the wall as so many niche companies are doing.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 12, 2022 2:35:25 GMT
Sorry, don't want to seem mean here but while I can understand why Oz and New Zealand ppl being upset about paying more than before, it is only fair. I just checked prices of Coke in the uS - 2l bottle is $2.48 = £2.10. UK equivalant is 1.25l bottle (smaller) for £2.0 also available in Ox for $3.55 = £2.02. Roughly the same as UK. Americans get a better deal on Coke that the rest of us have to pay a bit extra. But ppl aren't all over the Coke company slagging them off. Things shoudl cost the same. Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now (which will kill the company for all of us) because they now have to pay what we've been paying for years. Funny u mention Coke.. I just took a photo today at the Comic Con this morning, a 375ML Coke was $5.70 AUST. I took a photo as evidence because that was ridiculous.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 12, 2022 8:33:28 GMT
Don't you find it concerning that absolute "Über-Fans" as we are now throwing around heretic thoughts like above? Imagine what "normal" people will say. It is amazing how much that Gabe Newell quote keeps being relevant. It's probably completely unnecessary to paste in in here, but here it is:
And... yeah. People will pay money for goods or services that they value -- people want to pay for media they value. But that requires, you know, considering your audience and meeting them halfway. Taking advantage of the loyal customers who are willing to still buy your products by fleecing them for as much as you can... is not, historically, a successful tactic. This is the exact same mindset that led to the near-collapse of the music and video game industries in the early 2000s. It is not a sustainable model. I do not know why the discussion went on and on, but Kestrel hit the nail on the head and exactly pointed out the issue we have had here. Non-British fans felt betrayed and the "service" provided by BF has been, and continues to be, a shambles. And no, I am NOT talking about the nice and wonderful people doing the one-on-one customer service, that has always been exemplary.
This quote from Gabe Newell is SPOT ON and explains the root of the problem.
So if anyone is going to be upset, be upset about the core issue at hand.
I am a medical person, and yes, while it is all to common to complain about and treat the SYMPTOMS (=piracy) of a disease, it is actually far better, and has far better outcome for the patient, to actually do a thing called "prevention" (foreign concept, I know) or finding out the root of the problem and concentrate on that!
My 2 cents.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 12, 2022 11:56:12 GMT
I’m an Australian customer who has definitely taken advantage of the fact that the prices have just had the currency markers swapped over for a decade now. The company has said repeatedly that they were going to put some kind of parity in place for quite a few years now. But I’m looking on it like their raising of postal charges: they said that for many years they were taking a hit on postage because they were being charged more than they could afford for postage. They took that hit for many years until they genuinely couldn’t afford it and then passed on a more realistic charge to us. It hurt, but as someone who buys a lot of stuff online to be posted to me, it’s something that I put up with from a lot of companies. Then there’s been Brexit which has hit them from so many angles, like the packaging of cds which has gone up, the cost of art in the liners - which caused some people, a ridiculous amount of heartache, as I recall because there weren’t as many pictures in the releases any more. Now we’ve gotten a new increase. They’ve given us plenty of warning. Has it been a mess? Yes? Have the prices risen a lot? Yes. That’s life, unfortunately: prices are going up all over the place. Luxury items like audio plays have always been on my list of things that I’m ok with some day not being able to buy as much of in the future. I get that most folks are grumbling because they’ve been affected financially in many areas and this is a bridge too far for them; I get that the plays are important to a lot of people for mental health and escapism issues. It doesn’t seem fair, but I’d rather have less BF than none at all and these increases - handled as badly as some people perceive them to be - are the better alternative than the company going to the wall as so many niche companies are doing. Agreed and a well rounded response Regards mark687
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Post by mark687 on Nov 12, 2022 12:03:08 GMT
Fair Enough Should we all keep screaming "LAIR in the Crowded Theater" though? Regards mark687 I'm not sure what you mean? Are you asking if people shouldn't call this out and how it affects them just because others have said it? Or that to call it a lie in unfair to Big Finish? Sorry, but just want to clarify before responding so that I can actually do so in a meaningful way . Sorry and I'm clarifying here but I just think repeated Posts of BF are Lairs are unnecessary. Regards mark687
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Post by Chakoteya on Nov 12, 2022 12:26:07 GMT
Here is a second person refusing to condemn piracy. I will have to step back from this discussion now because I may say something I'll regret. But do not accuse me if making up fictional comments. You said "Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now". Who said they are going to pirate BF stuff now? I wouldn't know how to pirate anything. I do know that my ISP blocks torrent sites on behalf of the government anyway.
I strongly suspect that the people who would pirate BF stuff already do it anyway, along with video media. And they probably don't bother to post here anyway. They're too busy fiddling with their VPNs or whatever to avoid being caught participating in criminal behaviour.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2022 13:18:42 GMT
I won't condone pirates. A bunch came aboard my galleon and pilfered a treasure chest of mine. I tried to swashbuckle back but....craft devil's those pirates!
You would think with the gold and jewels they've stolen at sea they could afford to buy BF!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2022 13:38:17 GMT
You said "Sorry but it upsets me that ppl are saying theiur going to pirate BF stuff now". Who said they are going to pirate BF stuff now? I wouldn't know how to pirate anything. I do know that my ISP blocks torrent sites on behalf of the government anyway.
I strongly suspect that the people who would pirate BF stuff already do it anyway, along with video media. And they probably don't bother to post here anyway. They're too busy fiddling with their VPNs or whatever to avoid being caught participating in criminal behaviour.
Quite so. The people who will want to pirate to save £20? They will pirate for £10 just as easily. It's not even, from my experience with people I manage at work, thought of as wrong. "Oh..you dont have Sky Atlantic? You can stream the new Game Of Thrones at......" etc. I've had conversations, many, with younger people to whom paying for media is almost incomprehensible. They may pay their Disney or Netflix but not for..a Criterion bluray, Arrow 4K, BF audio or Doctor Who book.
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Post by Kestrel on Nov 12, 2022 18:31:42 GMT
I don't even think I can recommend Big Finish audios to potential new fans in good conscience any more, nor am I able to condemn piracy, even half-heartedly, as I once did. Here is a second person refusing to condemn piracy. I will have to step back from this discussion now because I may say something I'll regret. But do not accuse me if making up fictional comments. It seems insane that I even have to say this, but refraining from condemning piracy is not the same thing as advocating for piracy nor is it a statement of intent to pirate. Also -- and I cannot possibly stress this enough -- nor is discussing the existence of piracy. I'll reiterate my stance once more, as simply as I can, to hopefully clear up any further confusion: I am no longer willing to try and get new fans into Big Finish nor am I going to push back against people who do talk about pirating their content. Please refrain from imagining that I said or implied anything other than that. Further, I would say that it's a fundamentally unhealthy mindset to view criticism of a company as some kind of personal attack on said company, the people who work there, or the fandom in general.
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