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Post by frisby78 on Jan 19, 2020 20:16:18 GMT
Well that was flipping brilliant. A wonderful and charming performance by Goran.
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
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Post by melkur on Jan 19, 2020 20:18:16 GMT
You know, I've missed the celebrity pseudo-historical...
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 19, 2020 20:39:19 GMT
Got the Manning stamp of approval.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 19, 2020 20:43:55 GMT
Very nearly a 5 Great Performance from Goran Visinjic (that's 2 former ER alum that have been nice surprise additions to the Whoinverse), Robert Glenister and Anji Mohindra do well to. Couple of nice deliveries from Bradley "AC/DC" , Mandip again does great with what she's got and Tosin fairs a bit better this week . Where it stumbles is the Doctor the default position should never be lecture or judgement and this week its virtually constant. CGI made me nostalgic for CSO Regards mark687
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Post by mark687 on Jan 19, 2020 21:02:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 21:12:21 GMT
I really can't imagine of these companions as movie buffs for some reason. Maybe Graham but even then, old school more than Chris Nolan. "Tesla? Like Elon Musk's cars?" is about as much as I expect them to know but they'll all know Edison, and the whole family will learn why we should all know Tesla more as we go. Well, I called that bit pretty much exactly as it happened at least. I dunno though, the ep itself was a bit of a letdown. I guess for a young audience to get a primer on Tesla it's fine but there was really nothing there below the surface. It was the Ladybird Book Of Tesla - he was a great man and someone who lit the flame of history. Of course, real life tells us he had more...problematic views at times but it was quickly evident this ep wasn't going to touch on anyything like that. Which..fine..but maybe don't go quite so OTT on the hero worship then. Goran's performance though was really good and actually so was Glennister's even if Edison was written with less depth than the aliens. Speaking of which it seemed like someone really liked the Racnoss makeup but didn't want to pay royalties to RTD as that was so impossibly close to the Sarah Parish villain from Runaway Bride - down to being the Queen - that it really stuck out. It was a fine little pseudo-historical romp for what it was but the real history here is more interesting than alien scorpions with death rays. Goran REALLY made the ep though, without his casting this would be nothing. His spark, his twinkle - he's the winner here. A shout out to the guys in wardrobe and sets though - their parts were very well executed and it looked terrific from that point of view. It's a solid enough 3 for me but there's nothing in this script that could have been a 4 or 5. Everyone did with it as they could. Maybe a more interesting reason for Tesla to be a target for the aliens. "He's really, really smart" is what it amounts to. Yeah...he's Tesla - we know he was pretty smart. You're telling me nothing here with your villain. Compare that with, say, Girl In The Fireplace. It gave us a reason very specifically for Madame De Pompodour to be targeted and it was unique and clever. It didn't reveal anything about the character but it satisfied the reason why it needed to be an SF story rather than a historical. This never does and I think it suffers for it. Given the subject we were never going to be getting anything as poignant as Rosa or Punjab but in the absence of feeling...I'd like some depth. Still - if there's one takeaway - again, Goran is an excellent Tesla and I wouldn't be averse to see him again, a la Ian McNiece's Churchill.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 19, 2020 21:16:46 GMT
Fuller thoughts: Metivier came up to bat with a giant love letter to all things science-related to turn of the century/early 20th century, real and fiction. We have Tesla, Edison, the electric age, early fascinations with life on other worlds, literary and pulp magazine sc-fi (heroic scientists, wild inventions, plucky female assistants, globe/nation trotting adventures, shadowy killers in cloaks and bowlers, aliens right out of a Doc Savage or Amazing Stories magazine cover) homages - it's a great blend of the various flavours of Who historicals. Plus, it's what Spyfall wanted to be but didn't 100% quite full suceed at being: a rollercoaster ride of a story. From the first murder, to the orb's discovery, to the train to New York, to the final showdown at the lab, the story doesn't let up yet never comes off as frantic. It sticks to what matters. Tesla: one of the strongest guest characters this series. Goran Višnjić gives the best guest performance after Dhawan: his Tesla is unquestionably a genius, but there's an earnestness and relatable frustration to him that never comes off as mopey. He's a man of vision, stuck in a time that doesn't fully appreciate him yet, he doesn't let it stop him. When the chips are down, he will do the right thing - his services are to humanity, not himself. He's utopic. That is baked into the themes and subtext of the story in a way that these elements wasn't fully in the last three weeks: the villains, the plot and a number of key character turns all draw from this well of 'innovation and risk': how long can one just simply get by off the achievements of others and not dare to risk with something new. Sure, new is harder, but only through that can you actually change things and build something better. Not new, but a great message for kids (continuing from last week's discussions on theme) and one that keeps Tesla at the story's center of gravity, where he should be.
The Skithra, while they won't win points for originality, work because they are tied deeply into that theme (like the Varjarian from Punjab, last series): they're a race of luddites and plagiarists, content to just to borrow and steal and never move beyond their complacency and comfort. They are antithetical not only to Tesla, but even to Edison: he believes in progress too, albeit in more pragmatic and capitalistic terms. The Skithra don't even have that because they're so narrow-minded and only value the immediate. They are a dead-end and proud of it. Mohindra chews the scenery as the Queen and gives them so much cred: even in her performance, she carries herself like a scavenger, always titled and craning over. Bit like a vulture.
Does it have the teeth or emotional gut punches of last year's historicals? No. There is certainly, as Davy pointed, no shortage of great drama to be mined from a story that played closer to the real Edison-Tesla battle, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with what they did or something to mark this story down for. It knew what it wanted to be and hit every note that mattered. A pleasure.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 19, 2020 21:30:03 GMT
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Post by doctorkernow on Jan 19, 2020 21:37:40 GMT
Hello again.
Very interesting. Lovely performances from the guest cast. A story about ideas, science and legacy. I agree with christmastrenzalore I loved the daft scorpians skittering around the place. The queen reminded me of the queen from The Runaway Bride. Really enjoyed this one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 21:39:10 GMT
When did DS start doing editorials about Who? They review it, sure, but that strikes me as an odd article for them. Btw, and very much by-the-by, seeing the ep title written down "Nikola Tesla's Night Of Terror" is one of my favourite titles in Who -puts me in mind of Dr Terror's House Of Horrors.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 19, 2020 21:43:29 GMT
When did DS start doing editorials about Who? They review it, sure, but that strikes me as an odd article for them. Btw, and very much by-the-by, seeing the ep title written down "Nikola Tesla's Night Of Terror" is one of my favourite titles in Who -puts me in mind of Dr Terror's House Of Horrors. They did last week too. As I said a couple of weeks ago the show's coming under attack from all sides lately Regards mark687
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Tony Jones
Chancellery Guard
Professor Chronotis
Still rockin' along!
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Post by Tony Jones on Jan 19, 2020 21:46:08 GMT
I like this pattern of Who getting guys who were really quite big on US TV 10-20 years ago, that's kinda fun. Last year we had Chris Noth in Arachnids and here we've got Goran as Tesla. Goran was famously the guy who was brought on board to replace George Clooney in ER. I like that the casting net gets thrown a little wider these days. Edison, for all his genius, was a bully and a thief who used organised criminals against people working in similiar fields to his own. Famously the reason some of the early film pioneers moved away from New York - the centre of US filmmaking in the early 20th century - was to escape Edison's thugs who were destroying sets and threatening workers who weren't willing to work on Edison's projects. They moved to a rather obscure orange grove part of California and Hollywood was born! I wonder if that's the Edison we'll get here. If I were guessing, it will be and "the fam" will be ignorant of Tesla outside of the car name and they'll learn about his genius and vision that his innovations should be benefiting all, not just sold for the profits Edison chased. We'll see next week. The Tesla-Edison story is, like Rosa and the Indian Partition, so interesting it really doesn't need aliens. Goran was brilliant in Timeless - if you've not seen it catch it on Netflix
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Post by scriptortempore on Jan 19, 2020 22:14:15 GMT
It really matters when the show is marketing itself with "space for all" etc type branding. That's meant to be more inclusive and part of that should mean tackling aspects of historical figures which aren't spoken about much but really matter, especially when Tesla's justification for eugenics relied on notions of the survival of race and civilisation! Also, the show is meant to be pivoting more towards educational episodes again and well, as DS pointed out he's a much more complex person than just a wonderful visionary of the future, so they're failing in that aspect. I personally didn't expect them to talk about eugenics or other bad things tesla supported/ did but if they were going to leave it out, I'd rather they toned down the hero worship of him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 22:44:27 GMT
So out of 5 what would I give that? 6! It was fantastic, everything I want in Who, fun & fast-paced. Perfectly pitched performances across the board, Goran Višnjić in particular as Tesla (did I notice a slight attraction between him & the Doctor? Certainly an affinity). Segun Akinola's score was a particular highlight, especially the weird otherworldly cue on the alien ship which was a great design with brilliant cinematography. This is an episode I know I will return to again, just so enjoyable for me from start to finish. Looking forward to seeing Nida Manzoor's direction again next week.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 19, 2020 22:47:54 GMT
It really matters when the show is marketing itself with "space for all" etc type branding. That's meant to be more inclusive and part of that should mean tackling aspects of historical figures which aren't spoken about much but really matter, especially when Tesla's justification for eugenics relied on notions of the survival of race and civilisation! Also, the show is meant to be pivoting more towards educational episodes again and well, as DS pointed out he's a much more complex person than just a wonderful visionary of the future, so they're failing in that aspect. I personally didn't expect them to talk about eugenics or other bad things tesla supported/ did but if they were going to leave it out, I'd rather they toned down the hero worship of him. I don't think that has much to do with inclusion so much as an issue of honesty - Who has a spotty track record when it comes to optics on historical figures: being family-friendly has tied their hands often, not helped by having a lot of figures who's myths have overtaken the facts. The real Churchill was very much not Ian McNiece, and let's not get started on Nero in The Romans. Rosa definitely opened the gates for much less-rosy looks into the past, and there's certainly a story there on Tesla's beliefs.
I guess it didn't irk me because I took the story on its own terms and it hooked me in - it's a pulp-throwback and felt it justified itself with strong enough execution. If you feel you can't, I can't blame you for that, nor do I think it's an invalid take, but I can only speak for me. Plus, if kids get hooked into learning more about Tesla, that's not a bad thing and they'll come across this eventually - just like with any part of history they learn, there's light and dark.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 19, 2020 22:48:12 GMT
It really matters when the show is marketing itself with "space for all" etc type branding. That's meant to be more inclusive and part of that should mean tackling aspects of historical figures which aren't spoken about much but really matter, especially when Tesla's justification for eugenics relied on notions of the survival of race and civilisation! Also, the show is meant to be pivoting more towards educational episodes again and well, as DS pointed out he's a much more complex person than just a wonderful visionary of the future, so they're failing in that aspect. I personally didn't expect them to talk about eugenics or other bad things tesla supported/ did but if they were going to leave it out, I'd rather they toned down the hero worship of him. But what do you really do? Where do you fit your condemnation of Tesla's support of eugenics among the scorpion scavenger aliens, the Doctor saving the day and Edison being horrible? Yes Tesla was a complicated person with some horrible beliefs but he was also the guy who in large part imagined the 20th & 21st centuries. I think if someone is interested enough in Tesla after this episode, then they can do their own research and find out things for themselves.
As an episode, I thought this was light as a feather and a lot of fun. Glennister's American dialect wasn't the worst I've heard. I read that they filmed this in Bulgaria. Which, if you don't know, is a really popular filming destination. The show looks great. I still don't know that I will ever look at Whittaker's Doctor as being anything other than a female counterpart to Tennant's Doctor. Anyway. I'm just happy the show is 4-0.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 22:49:56 GMT
Well Digital Spy is a pretty shoddy website but I wonder if they made similar comments every time Winston Churchill featured in an episode?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 23:06:14 GMT
I like this pattern of Who getting guys who were really quite big on US TV 10-20 years ago, that's kinda fun. Last year we had Chris Noth in Arachnids and here we've got Goran as Tesla. Goran was famously the guy who was brought on board to replace George Clooney in ER. I like that the casting net gets thrown a little wider these days. Edison, for all his genius, was a bully and a thief who used organised criminals against people working in similiar fields to his own. Famously the reason some of the early film pioneers moved away from New York - the centre of US filmmaking in the early 20th century - was to escape Edison's thugs who were destroying sets and threatening workers who weren't willing to work on Edison's projects. They moved to a rather obscure orange grove part of California and Hollywood was born! I wonder if that's the Edison we'll get here. If I were guessing, it will be and "the fam" will be ignorant of Tesla outside of the car name and they'll learn about his genius and vision that his innovations should be benefiting all, not just sold for the profits Edison chased. We'll see next week. The Tesla-Edison story is, like Rosa and the Indian Partition, so interesting it really doesn't need aliens. Goran was brilliant in Timeless - if you've not seen it catch it on Netflix Thanks for that Tony - it was on my radar a few years ago but in the midst of Who, Legends Of Tomorrow and the tv version of Time After Time (I think I was the only person watching...) I was all time-travelled out! I'll get it on my queue.
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Post by frisby78 on Jan 19, 2020 23:06:19 GMT
Teslas, and for that matter, Wells thoughts on Eugenics were pretty much a product of there time. And predicting it, is a tad different to supporting it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 23:29:59 GMT
You know it's eps like this - with subject matter worth exploring and the show looking terrific with interesting, out-the-box casting that makes me really wish we still had Doctor Who Confidential on the air.
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