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Post by penguintim on Jul 10, 2020 7:07:24 GMT
Not as good as the first set imo, but still pretty decent overall. However: - Big Finish the Ogrons are not funny, their whole gimmick of being dumb, dark-skinned, ape-lkke brutes was never funny, please ENOUGH - Joe Kraemer compose new music instead of copy pasting the same music cues over and over challenge
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 10, 2020 9:38:04 GMT
- Joe Kraemer compose new music instead of copy pasting the same music cues over and over challenge I can't believe I forgot to include that in my earlier posts. It was especially obvious in Treason and Plot. Music cues from earlier Missy stories, stuff from The Paternoster Gang. They're good pieces, but they're very distinctive and tailored so their reuse is very obvious. Shame, as Joe Kraemer is really good and a coup for Big Finish. Just about to listen to Too Many Masters.
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Post by IndieMacUser on Jul 10, 2020 10:20:00 GMT
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 10, 2020 10:50:08 GMT
Too Many Masters is good. It's fun and there's the malevolent side to Missy that makes her a little unpredictable and selfish. It's a great sequel to Divorced, Beheaded, Regenerated and Gomez & Hound have such a great rapport. I was concerned that a sequel would be too much of a good thing, but I needn't have worried and am hoping the cliffhanger carries on into the next set. Overall, it's a set of two halves; two good instalments and two fun farces that seem a bit throwaway. I realise my previous posts do come across as more critical than intended. I have no issue with Missy breaking the fourth wall, being comedic and fun, they're all traits of her character. There should be that underlying menace there, though, and everything she does should have a true purpose and push us forward, even if it's just her letting the odd character escape with their life, or a slight apprehension before doing something wicked. The first set was better in that regard, it felt varied yet consistent. I am a little disappointed that the first set ended on a cliffhanger that didn't really get picked up on. Missy has the Master TARDIS in The Lumiat and then that's it. There's untapped potential in that. Then the other slight theme is Missy vying to get the Doctor's attention, only for the Monk to be behind it all, which doesn't really justify the way the stories are. I hope the third set really runs with the cliffhanger and gives us some menace and black comedy.
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Post by Digi on Jul 10, 2020 15:47:38 GMT
Listened to The Lumiat earlier. Good, and as always, Michelle Gomez is totally on form.
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Post by elkawho on Jul 10, 2020 17:41:20 GMT
I finally finished this set and loved it all. Yes, some stories are better than others, but I had fun with them all. I love the comedic bent to these, it's one of the few BF ranges that really throws itself into the comedy and it's a nice change of pace for the company. Paternoster does similar things, but I think Missy takes it that one step further. I think Strax worked in this range because of it. I do think an air of menace under the comedy is key, and I do think they get that for the most part. The only problem I had with the set was the lack of follow-up to the cliff-hanger from Vol 1.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 10, 2020 21:13:25 GMT
Also finished the set. I loved it! This was wonderful over the top comedy and farce. The Luminat and Too Many Masters were definitely the highlights of the set. These two stories were simply stunning, fast paced, witty and the main characters worked fantastically together. The middle tow stories were alright, too, but did not quite reach the quality of the first and last.
How does this compare to the first set? Well, come to think about it... I actually like this one better! Yes, here, I said it.
In the interviews they say the are planning another set... well, count me in. If this continues along these fun and over the top lines, it can only be a winner.
As answer to some of the criticism mentioned by all of you above- I agree on the Ogrons. They are a bit of a one trick pony, and not a particularly interesting one at that. It was borderline in overdoing it, I agree on that.
However, I wouldn't mind the Missy/ Monk team bumping into Doctor Ogron. And have their plans foiled by him. Now THAT would be an amazing twist.
As for the choice in music arrangement and design... I noticed the recycling of music cues, too, but actually did not mind. I just took it as some stylistic method of tying things together and quickly identify characters. I am used to my long running German audio drama series, and they even re-use a lot of the sound effects. Which comes across as quite a bit cheaper than what BF has been producing lately, so I certainly cannot complain about what BF is doing here.
So, all in all, this is just a lot of fun and certainly will go on top of my list of cheer-me-up listens for bad days.
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Post by pawntake on Jul 10, 2020 21:25:50 GMT
Another Boxset yes please!!More Ogrons Noooooo.........!!
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Post by sherlock on Jul 10, 2020 21:28:06 GMT
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Post by sherlock on Jul 11, 2020 0:44:41 GMT
Too Many Masters was again fun, and threw a light on the darker side of Missy’s antics. The Monk was well done, I think the comedic tone of those series suits Hound’s take better than the usual Who does.
Do have to agree with the complaints about the music. The score really helped the first set, but barely anything sounded new this time round. It seemed either completely reused or just variations on existing themes.
Overall I don’t think this set matches up to the first. It feels much less ambitious, as after The Lumiat it’s just a series of Missy's antics, whereas the first one built up to something. What was the point of introducing the Master TARDIS?
I don’t want to be too harsh though, as this is set still is a fun diversion.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 11, 2020 8:27:55 GMT
It’s one of those pieces that Steven Moffat used to be really good at, but it’s a hard thing to write and comes across as retrospective waffle. There was nothing stopping Lisa McMullin from having that intention in The Lumiat, but she didn’t. I don’t see the point in pretending it’s otherwise; it’s a good story as it is.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 11, 2020 8:30:08 GMT
Overall I don’t think this set matches up to the first. It feels much less ambitious, as after The Lumiat it’s just a series of Missy's antics, whereas the first one built up to something. What was the point of introducing the Master TARDIS? I don’t want to be too harsh though, as this is set still is a fun diversion. Yeah, I know what you mean. It is fun but it’s very easy to be critical because the first set was so good. It struck that balance of comedy and evil (though I’d love more black comedy) and had a nice little arc running through it. The bulk of the second set, as you say, is just Missy’s antics with a slight running theme that, let’s be honest, we’ve already had realised on screen.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 11, 2020 12:49:34 GMT
Overall I don’t think this set matches up to the first. It feels much less ambitious, as after The Lumiat it’s just a series of Missy's antics, whereas the first one built up to something. What was the point of introducing the Master TARDIS? I don’t want to be too harsh though, as this is set still is a fun diversion. Yeah, I know what you mean. It is fun but it’s very easy to be critical because the first set was so good. It struck that balance of comedy and evil (though I’d love more black comedy) and had a nice little arc running through it. The bulk of the second set, as you say, is just Missy’s antics with a slight running theme that, let’s be honest, we’ve already had realised on screen. Hmm. I think this is exactly the reason why I liked it a little bit more....
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 12, 2020 9:16:12 GMT
Just listened to The Lumiat, which shook me right out of being a bit of a bah humbug about this release. What a wonderful and well realized idea for a story! I think I am still a bit in state of disbelief that for me, Big Finish are doing with Missy what many seem to feel they've done with the Sixth Doctor, and somehow they are doing it with a noticeable amount of tongue in cheek even when I was sure that was the problem with Missy in the TV series at least until near the very end, is that there was already too much tongue in cheek when it comes to Missy. I even got a sense of my favorite thing about classic Who, which is a serious story but one that's off the wall in a very good way, where anything can happen and it probably wouldn't seem out of place if it did.
I probably enjoy this audio series so much it casts a very positive light backwards on the TV series and actually makes me enthusiastic to have another watch of episodes I'd normally be sure I'd probably rather skip. Certainly that is redeeming a character. Well done once again, Big Finish!
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Post by cwm on Jul 12, 2020 16:51:45 GMT
It’s one of those pieces that Steven Moffat used to be really good at, but it’s a hard thing to write and comes across as retrospective waffle. There was nothing stopping Lisa McMullin from having that intention in The Lumiat, but she didn’t. I don’t see the point in pretending it’s otherwise; it’s a good story as it is. What intention? That the Lumiat regenerated into the Dhawan Master? It was impossible for her to have any such intention because nobody knew about him at the time.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 12, 2020 17:44:36 GMT
It’s one of those pieces that Steven Moffat used to be really good at, but it’s a hard thing to write and comes across as retrospective waffle. There was nothing stopping Lisa McMullin from having that intention in The Lumiat, but she didn’t. I don’t see the point in pretending it’s otherwise; it’s a good story as it is. What intention? That the Lumiat regenerated into the Dhawan Master? It was impossible for her to have any such intention because nobody knew about him at the time. The story doesn’t explicitly state what The Lumiat is, but there was nothing stopping McMullin from stating in the story that she’s post-Missy and a genuine incarnation, that then regenerates into another incarnation. She only comes up with that retrospectively because of the Dhawan Master. Perhaps I missed something in the story, but my interpretation until I read that backstage piece was that Missy had essentially been reconstructed in a new body. That leaves the possibility of Missy carrying on, but also The Lumiat existing too. And then The Lumiat then potentially has a “good” self and a “bad” self roaming around. As I said, I might have missed something.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jul 12, 2020 17:56:48 GMT
What intention? That the Lumiat regenerated into the Dhawan Master? It was impossible for her to have any such intention because nobody knew about him at the time. The story doesn’t explicitly state what The Lumiat is, but there was nothing stopping McMullin from stating in the story that she’s post-Missy and a genuine incarnation, that then regenerates into another incarnation. She only comes up with that retrospectively because of the Dhawan Master. Perhaps I missed something in the story, but my interpretation until I read that backstage piece was that Missy had essentially been reconstructed in a new body. That leaves the possibility of Missy carrying on, but also The Lumiat existing too. And then The Lumiat then potentially has a “good” self and a “bad” self roaming around. As I said, I might have missed something. I’m fairly sure there was no implication of there being another Missy roaming about. The body was deconstructed into atoms and reconstructed with the same atoms. And then a copy of the Master's “soul” was merged with the body. To me, it seems the story was written with the implication that the Lumiat is the incarnation immediately after Missy, but also with a get-out clause in case the tv show contradicts this by having the use of the Elysian Field mean that even if the timeline is averted and the Master’s life goes down a different path, the Lumiat still exists.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 12, 2020 18:05:51 GMT
The story doesn’t explicitly state what The Lumiat is, but there was nothing stopping McMullin from stating in the story that she’s post-Missy and a genuine incarnation, that then regenerates into another incarnation. She only comes up with that retrospectively because of the Dhawan Master. Perhaps I missed something in the story, but my interpretation until I read that backstage piece was that Missy had essentially been reconstructed in a new body. That leaves the possibility of Missy carrying on, but also The Lumiat existing too. And then The Lumiat then potentially has a “good” self and a “bad” self roaming around. As I said, I might have missed something. I’m fairly sure there was no implication of there being another Missy roaming about. The body was deconstructed into atoms and reconstructed with the same atoms. And then a copy of the Master's “soul” was merged with the body. To me, it seems the story was written with the implication that the Lumiat is the incarnation immediately after Missy, but also with a get-out clause in case the tv show contradicts this by having the use of the Elysian Field mean that even if the timeline is averted and the Master’s life goes down a different path, the Lumiat still exists. Ah okay, the Elysian Field is where I got my interpretation from, I think. Thank you for clarifying, though as you say, there’s nothing truly explicit in the story so both could happen; that’s where my issue is: it’s just retrospective waffle. I realise I’m coming across as though I care more than I actually do, so I’ll bow out now! Where’s Series 3, eh?
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Post by Kestrel on Jul 13, 2020 1:13:59 GMT
Okay, so I finally finished Missy 2 today, and as much as I wish it weren't so... I was a bit disappointed by the set. I've spent a while thinking about why, generally, the stories didn't land as well for me... and I think it's because Missy didn't have as much agency in these four stories as in the first four. EG she's a much more reactive character than a proactive character--first to the Lumiat, then to the siblings, and finally to the Monk/Ogrons. None of the stories really felt like they *belonged* to Missy, if that makes any sense.
Another part of it may be that I really didn't like the first story, and that kind of set the tone for the succeeding three. We got off on the wrong foot, as it were. Each subsequent story seemed to improve, and the latter two, I felt, were pretty good--especially Missy's interactions with the Monk. My memory of Classic Who isn't very strong (an effect of binging through most of it several years ago), so I don't know if the Ogrons are new or returning villains, but I enjoyed them quite a bit as written here--they felt very Douglass Adams.
And maybe it's not really necessary, but I'll quickly explain what I didn't like about the first two stories.
In the first, the Lumiat is an interesting character concept, so I kind of resent the decision to immediately kill her off. I feel like Big Finish looked at Missy's character arc in the TV show, and assumed it was a "problem" they needed to "solve." IE it was inevitable that the Master would return as a villain, and if we ignore the entire premise of the show (which, let's be honest, happens with embarrassing frequency) the Master's return would contradict Missy's ultimate redemption. So we get this hamfisted, inelegant and utterly unnecessary story with the Lumiat assuring us that it's okay, she'll inevitably turn evil again! Which, I think, devalues Missy's entire arc. It's also a bit of a lame rehash of Missy's final story, with Missy's murder of the Lumiat mirroring the Simms' Master's murdering of Missy. Mmmhmm.
If they really wanted to go this route it seems like the more obvious solution would be to make the Lumiat a parallel regeneration rather than a sequential regeneration. By which I mean simply follow the mythic trope of having Missy split herself into two Time Lords at the point of her regeration, one good and one evil. This would handily explain why future incarnations of the Master could still be evil, while simultaneously providing a potentially compelling character for future stories in the Lumiat.
...And when it comes to the second story, my issue is much simpler: they didn't do the premise justice! They've got Missy running a school, but we don't actually get to see much of her playing that role. In Missy 1's inaugural adventure, we got to see quite of bit of her acting as a governess, and it was delicious. I'd have loved to see schoolmarm Missy get the same treatment.
EDIT: just to clarify, I still enjoyed the set, but it was merely "good" when I expected "great." I, too, eagerly await Missy 3... just not quite with the same enthusiasm as, say, War Master 5.
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Post by Who Review on Jul 14, 2020 9:27:32 GMT
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