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Post by fitzoliverj on Feb 29, 2020 14:35:28 GMT
Details of names aside, this is EXACTLY what I reckoned the Master's whiny complaint about everything being a lie would turn out to be, because
1) that'd be very consistent with how the ancient Time Lords (didn't they steal time travel off somebody else? I've tried to track down the reference [they took time travel from enemies who travelled back in time to stop them attacking them in the future] but can't find it)
2) I've already stated Chibnall's ideas tend to resemble those we've seen before 3) It would undo one of the irritating changes newWho has introduced into continuity (that Time Lord powers developed through irridiation of that thing that drove the Master mad when he looked at it, rather than deliberate changes to their genome)
However, all this cosy-sunday-night-drama business, and this suspicious-looking portal, have put me right off this theory.
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Post by tardybox on Feb 29, 2020 16:17:26 GMT
If I can add my two cents - of all the possibilities for tomorrow, I don't think we'll get something about regeneration specifically. Given that the production department has to sign off on BF's stuff well in advance and we've just had that story in Ravenous, I'm leaning away from that particular concept. Other than that I've no idea where we're gonna go on Sunday, but I can't wait to find out!
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Feb 29, 2020 16:27:15 GMT
If I can add my two cents - of all the possibilities for tomorrow, I don't think we'll get something about regeneration specifically. Given that the production department has to sign off on BF's stuff well in advance and we've just had that story in Ravenous, I'm leaning away from that particular concept. Other than that I've no idea where we're gonna go on Sunday, but I can't wait to find out! If the rumours are true, nothing in Ravenous would conflict with any regeneration specific revelations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 16:28:15 GMT
I find it interesting to read/listen to varied perspectives. However, when you step back and look at the wider perspective of some of those who post YouTube discussions, by heck, they really hate Star Trek Picard, ST Discovery, Star Wars Episodes 7-9, current Doctor Who, with a vehemence. Each one has totally ruined the legacy of the past in their prism. Soured the coffee forever with turned cream. Its all just fiction, the work of other people, of which they have no input themselves except to consume or not to consume. I have admitted before that the current run does not appeal to myself, being old school Who (and not into modern TV drama anyway), but I much prefer to hear positive feedback on this forum from those who get behind it and look first an foremost to be entertained, to get escapism and appreciate what we have. The consequence is that those who would normally air constructive criticism have to really dial it back for fear of coming across as being toxic. I follow the run through online discussions as opposed to watching it, but then again, I was not keeping up with every episode for a long time now. I can put that down to age and changing tastes, but I feel that to some the show fills too much of a gap in their lives, to the point that feeling bitter and resentful, gives some pleasure as it is an emotional reflex and preoccupation still. So yes, I am looking forward to learning about tomorrows episode, and to learning about what happens. I may get around to watching it sometime, but have little choice myself these days as to what I watch before everyone else is in bed (!). It will be nice though, if a little belated, if it generates some positive press chatter.
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Post by commonman on Feb 29, 2020 23:49:09 GMT
Details of names aside, this is EXACTLY what I reckoned the Master's whiny complaint about everything being a lie would turn out to be, because 1) that'd be very consistent with how the ancient Time Lords (didn't they steal time travel off somebody else? I've tried to track down the reference [they took time travel from enemies who travelled back in time to stop them attacking them in the future] but can't find it)
2) I've already stated Chibnall's ideas tend to resemble those we've seen before 3) It would undo one of the irritating changes newWho has introduced into continuity (that Time Lord powers developed through irridiation of that thing that drove the Master mad when he looked at it, rather than deliberate changes to their genome)
However, all this cosy-sunday-night-drama business, and this suspicious-looking portal, have put me right off this theory.
That's from Alan Moore's comics from the early DWM era. It was also the first references to a Time War, even before Mad Larry did.
Unrelated silly theory I had last night: What if Brandon was the policeman from an unearthly child? (I very much enjoy the story about given in one the Paul Spragg opportunity but it's not the first time we had people do something with him)
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Mar 1, 2020 18:41:36 GMT
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Post by scriptortempore on Mar 1, 2020 20:00:36 GMT
That was a big miss for me
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Post by mark687 on Mar 1, 2020 20:01:10 GMT
Well then
Paraphrasing a great quote "A Person is the sum of their memories a Timelord even more so"
It worked better than I thought it would but still,,,.
Regards
mark687
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Post by antartiks on Mar 1, 2020 20:03:04 GMT
I just absolutely hated this. From beginning to end. I think Chibnall just out Moffated Moffat and went too far.
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Tony Jones
Chancellery Guard
Professor Chronotis
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Post by Tony Jones on Mar 1, 2020 20:03:41 GMT
Tried hard but too much rewriting of the mythos is my initial thought
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Post by grinch on Mar 1, 2020 20:05:50 GMT
Probably going to get slated for this. (Already have in other places) but I thought that was awful. Came across more like Chibnall trying to be clever than anything else and failing. Still, have to give him some credit I suppose. He’s certainly got people arguing... excuse me talking on social media and he’s definitely left his mark on the show.
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Post by obluda on Mar 1, 2020 20:09:32 GMT
Well, now I know how it feels to be on the side of the people complaining that the show has been ruined.
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Mar 1, 2020 20:12:58 GMT
Crikey! I mean, I liked that, but I'm not sure how I feel about the Doctor being made so integral to the Time Lord's creation. That's a big deal. They're not just the renegade that became a hero down the line. They're special even amongst their people.
On the other hand, The Doctor's origins are even more mysterious now. We don't know where they originally come from, what exactly transpired before the Hartnell incarnation, or the real reasons they left Gallifrey.
On it's own merits, it was basically the Master makes a Cyber-army again, and I wasn't really keen on how the Lone Cyber-man was taken out like a chump. Kind of an anti-climax. But the Cyber Masters did look pretty cool, and given that one ADR line, they might still be about with the Cyberium Master.
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
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Post by melkur on Mar 1, 2020 20:15:57 GMT
Five-year plan yeah?...
For the moment, it's a little polarising, but I'm open enough to see how it goes!
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Post by scriptortempore on Mar 1, 2020 20:17:10 GMT
Tried hard but too much rewriting of the mythos is my initial thought I think in particular it's also doing it to answer questions which don't need answering. The morbius doctors have pretty much been explained in the expanded media. Yes most fans won't have engaged with that but I guess most won't have watched morbius either tbqh. I also didn't find it more satisfying than the VNA pre Doctor stuff so it didn't work for me. I will say that I think this has been a wider theme recently. Obviously the connection between the Mary Shelley episode and big finish stuff is there. But an invasion of gallifrey by the cybermen has been done by titan (although it's possible to reconcile the two easily that isn't the point I'm making) and the Doctor being imprisoned on an asteroid did remind me a lot of the novel the blood cell although we'll have to wait for that to be explained. I'm not sure if chibnall credited any of those stories, especially the silver turk, for inspiration but to me at least, this just didn't feel fresh. Cyber leader was absolutely wasted. The master wasn't to my taste and a bit weirdly sexual tbqh. There were also pointless references, yes I know what the matrix and transmat are but does your modern nuwho fan? I certainly think an explanation of the matrix really was necessary. All that exposition and the plot crucial details aren't explained for the modern audience. This isn't my full review and I'll need to let this settle. I did like the music and there were some excellent moments (mainly Jodie pushing the master) but that's a 2-2.5/5 sadly. A series I haven't had much fun with and an episode which leaves me uncertain about how much I'll enjoy my favourite show in the future. Edit: forgot the master explained what the matrix was. Nonetheless felt there was too much the panopticon this and the citadel that, a bit like a bad Gary Russel book come to life
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 20:17:40 GMT
It's kinda as we've pieced together with the Timeless Child being exploited for the "good" of The Timelords but I'm actually really in favour of the numbering thing being ditched. It's like Jo Martin's Doc said to Jodie in The Matrix - does The Doctor's placement in events, in canon and timelines essentially, change her character in any way? No. It's The Doctor either way. The Doctor has always been unique, always different. The mythos doesn't affect that inherent character. For her to be the start of it all....I can accept that. It would explain why he/she has been so integral to every major event we've seen unfold. The Doctor always making the choice to become the hero, to save lives regardless of what "cycle" she is in? I think that's powerful. As Jodie says, it makes her "more". Clearly others don't feel that's true but I believed what The Doctor (and therefore Chibnall) were selling with that speech bringing The Master back down to Earth. And it doesn't change the character one iota. She's still The Doctor because she choses to be and always does. I love that. Very much reminded me of the Last Jedi's message that holding onto the sacred texts is fine...but you've got to keep moving too. The idea that whoever you were once upon a time isn't important compared to who you are now as long as you're on the side of the angels..I think that's a very Who message. Does it all make sense...no. There were plot contrivances all over the place from Ashad being really dumb so The Master could use the cyberium, to the Fam just finding their way to the Panopticon and Julie Graham just knowing there was a legend about Ashad's particle. Or why did Jo Martin's TARDIS look like the regular Police Box? Lots of clunky parts. Though clearly any story that mentions Borusa deserves some leway. Still..as an an adventure it worked for me. The exposition heavy scenes balanced well against the ongoing threats. There was a nice symmetry to it all. The Cyber-Lords were great looking, just the right amount of hokey fun (those metal collars!) that makes Doctor Who unique. We've clearly got more to come too with Judoon, Daleks (told you!), (almost certainly) Jack and then a goodbye to the fam at Christmas/New Year. Then there's still a lot more Chibnall can do with the revelations. I don't think he's done yet. Jodie and he and both stressed much of the story wil span the era not just the season so I'm all for giving them more room than normal to make something a bit less amorphous and a bit more focused out of the events and the expansion of The Doctor's lives. It was a mess storywise at times...but I kinda loved the scuzzy chutzpah of it. It left nothing on the shelf. After last years damp squib this brought out every firework Chibnall could think of. Putting the "Who?" back in Who - I'm in favour.
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Post by scriptortempore on Mar 1, 2020 20:20:47 GMT
Tried hard but too much rewriting of the mythos is my initial thought I think in particular it's also doing it to answer questions which don't need answering. The morbius doctors have pretty much been explained in the expanded media. Yes most fans won't have engaged with that but I guess most won't have watched morbius either tbqh. I also didn't find it more satisfying than the VNA pre Doctor stuff so it didn't work for me. I will say that I think this has been a wider theme recently. Obviously the connection between the Mary Shelley episode and big finish stuff is there. But an invasion of gallifrey by the cybermen has been done by titan (although it's possible to reconcile the two easily that isn't the point I'm making) and the Doctor being imprisoned on an asteroid did remind me a lot of the novel the blood cell although we'll have to wait for that to be explained. I'm not sure if chibnall credited any of those stories, especially the silver turk, for inspiration but to me at least, this just didn't feel fresh. Cyber leader was absolutely wasted. The master wasn't to my taste and a bit weirdly sexual tbqh. There were also pointless references, yes I know what the matrix and transmat are but does your modern nuwho fan? I certainly think an explanation of the matrix really was necessary. All that exposition and the plot crucial details aren't explained for the modern audience. This isn't my full review and I'll need to let this settle. I did like the music and there were some excellent moments (mainly Jodie pushing the master) but that's a 2-2.5/5 sadly. A series I haven't had much fun with and an episode which leaves me uncertain about how much I'll enjoy my favourite show in the future. Even within nuwho, we've seen the Doctor blow up gallifrey before. Where is the tension in recycled plot?
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Post by frisby78 on Mar 1, 2020 20:25:50 GMT
Brilliant, fun, exciting and a plethora of other superlatives!!
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Post by sherlock on Mar 1, 2020 20:28:46 GMT
Well good lord that was a lot of information. The TARDIS wiki will be in chaos.
I enjoyed that a lot overall. I think the resolution with the general sacrificing himself was weak (the Doctor met him for all of five minutes, last episode) and the cliffhanger was whiplash inducing in its suddenness (though yay, what! What! What! is back).
*Flashforward to 2024* ‘Coming soon to Big Finish Productions-The Morbius Doctors Volume 3...’
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Post by scriptortempore on Mar 1, 2020 20:32:53 GMT
Well good lord that was a lot of information. The TARDIS wiki will be in chaos. I enjoyed that a lot overall. I think the resolution with the general sacrificing himself was weak (the Doctor met him for all of five minutes, last episode) and the cliffhanger was whiplash inducing in its suddenness (though yay, what! What! What! is back). *Flashforward to 2024* ‘Coming soon to Big Finish Productions-The Morbius Doctors Volume 3...’ If BF manage to make this and lungbarrow coincide (Marc platt please) they will get a LOT of my money. They already have, but even more so! I can imagine the tagline now, "You thought you knew the Doctor's lives. But there are OTHERs"
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