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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 8, 2020 14:23:55 GMT
Yes. Half the stories in these box sets don't relate to the main arc. Very annoying This is what I always find confusing. The desire for some shorter stories not tied to a big arc... whilst getting annoyed that the boxsets have several stories that don’t relate to the main arc. They are 2 different things though. If I am buying shorter stories my expectation is different to a boxset, with a boxset I feel they are overlong, with episodes that add nothing to the main story, & the release schedule lessens my enjoyment. I see them less as having an arc as being different chapters in one story. So for me less epsiodes per boxset, 3 for example instead of 4, & all parts of a single story rather than episodes that to me feel like filler & would work just as well released separately on their own.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 8, 2020 14:55:07 GMT
I think variety is the key thing - a new format and/or a new companion is exciting at first and shakes things up, but will eventually outstay its welcome and become tired. I have enjoyed Dark Eyes / Doom Coalition / Ravenous / Time War (haven't got round to Stranded yet) and I wouldn't say a word against them, but at the same time it might be nice to switch back to the 4x25 minute format.
At the same time, I would love a 16 part epic for either 5, 6 or 7 because it would be a refreshing change
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 8, 2020 15:27:52 GMT
Yes. Half the stories in these box sets don't relate to the main arc. Very annoying This is what I always find confusing. The desire for some shorter stories not tied to a big arc... whilst getting annoyed that the boxsets have several stories that don’t relate to the main arc. i think its difficult when there different types of audiences
Audience #A are the Casual Fans who like standard adventures without a story arc and just want to enjoy non-connecting stories (Example: The Sixth Doctor and Peri Volume 1, The Seventh Doctor New Adventures)
Audience #B are the Story Arc Fans who want a connecting story that builds from each story (Example: Dark Eyes 2-4, Doom Coalition)
Audience #C are the Fans that just want a digestible subtly connecting story that doesn't require multiple box-sets but standalone (Example: Dark Eyes 1, Further Adventures of Lucie Miller Volume 1)
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 8, 2020 15:32:36 GMT
Honestly i want a fresh start for 8 (like Blood of The Daleks and Dark Eyes were)
A New Companion (Maybe even a second one which is a male companion as the last male companion was Fitz which was 11 Years ago so its long overdue) A New Costume and yeah a new format
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 17:13:59 GMT
Honestly it is beginning to sound like Number 8 is Schrödinger's Doctor. Bogged down with too much variety.
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Sept 8, 2020 17:21:21 GMT
To go a little more into detail, I think "Doom Coalition" was the most successful iteration of the 16 Episode format.
Dark Eyes was basically a stand-alone 4 hour story (that ended up getting an extension due to popularity from my understanding). It was good but not a format I'd like consistently. I prefer it when each episode has its own individual identity/story within the whole. But while being self-contained, it still left off on a bit of a chilling cliffhanger with the Dalek Time Controller vowing revenge.
Dark Eyes 2 was a great follow up. Planted the seeds of what was to come. Introduced new characters. Had a cool structural thing where it loops back on itself. And it ended with a big face-off against The Master. In essence, it pushed everything forward, but still felt like it's own thing.
Dark Eyes 3 is where things fell apart. The Eminence was used as the center-piece, but was reduced to a chump by the end, continually beaten, used, and ultimately defeated by word-play. Maybe its just me, but it didn't feel like a good conclusion.
Dark Eyes 4 was a great in terms of individual stories. A "Life in the Day"; *Italian chef kiss*. "The Monster of Montmatre" and "Master of the Daleks"; big personalities and great fun. "Eye of Darkness" was OK, but felt extremely perfunctory in terms of wrapping up the story arc. Time Controller was a great villain, and I didn't feel like he quite lived up to the foreboding promise of Dark Eyes 1.
Doom Coalition: DC1: Comes out swinging. Not the greatest ending but hey-oh. DC2: Nice get-away opener followed by a terrific 3 episode run. DC3: Not big on the middle two-parter (just felt a little too busy), but "Absent Friends" was amazing, and "Crucible of Souls" was a great story and cliffhanger. DC4: This set is perfect.
Ravenous had its up and downs in terms of individual story quality, but the arc was pretty weak. It had a decent ending, which was supplemented by the 3 Masters stunt premise, but as a bridging narrative over 4 sets, not great.
Stranded so far is the worst opening, but for very specific reasons. The premise of the Doctor being downgraded from a Time Lord to a Land Lord with a recurring cast of tenants is a cool one, and there are things I like about it. I really loved the first episode. But the rest left something to be desired.
The Time War Sets do feel mostly self-contained so far, so not much to say on those. I remember the first one being the best for some reason.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 8, 2020 17:49:16 GMT
To go a little more into detail, I think "Doom Coalition" was the most successful iteration of the 16 Episode format. Dark Eyes was basically a stand-alone 4 hour story (that ended up getting an extension due to popularity from my understanding). It was good but not a format I'd like consistently. I prefer it when each episode has its own individual identity/story within the whole. But while being self-contained, it still left off on a bit of a chilling cliffhanger with the Dalek Time Controller vowing revenge. Dark Eyes 2 was a great follow up. Planted the seeds of what was to come. Introduced new characters. Had a cool structural thing where it loops back on itself. And it ended with a big face-off against The Master. In essence, it pushed everything forward, but still felt like it's own thing. Dark Eyes 3 is where things fell apart. The Eminence was used as the center-piece, but was reduced to a chump by the end, continually beaten, used, and ultimately defeated by word-play. Maybe its just me, but it didn't feel like a good conclusion. Dark Eyes 4 was a great in terms of individual stories. A "Life in the Day"; *Italian chef kiss*. "The Monster of Montmatre" and "Master of the Daleks"; big personalities and great fun. "Eye of Darkness" was OK, but felt extremely perfunctory in terms of wrapping up the story arc. Time Controller Doom Coalition: DC1: Comes out swinging. Not the greatest ending but hey-oh. DC2: Nice get-away opener followed by a terrific 3 episode run. DC3: Not big on the middle two-parter (just felt a little too busy), but "Absent Friends" was amazing, and "Crucible of Souls" was a great story and cliffhanger. DC4: This set is perfect. Ravenous had its up and downs in terms of individual story quality, but the arc was pretty weak. It had a decent ending, which was supplemented by the 3 Masters stunt premise, but as a bridging narrative over 4 sets, not great. Stranded so far is the worst opening, but for very specific reasons. The premise of the Doctor being downgraded from a Time Lord to a Land Lord with a recurring cast of tenants is a cool one, and there are things I like about it. I really loved the first episode. But the rest left something to be desired. The Time War Sets do feel mostly self-contained so far, so not much to say on those. I remember the first one being the best for some reason. Interesting analysis. Of course it comes down to personal taste- I personally liked Ravenous even more than Doom Coalition... but I agree that the arc and the villains were a bit uninspired. I just enjoyed it for the journey and I just love the Eleven.
Stranded I found very interesting. Love the expression you used about the time lord becoming a land lord by the way I do not think the format introduced in the first Stranded set can carry 16 stories, but I loved the premise that was the Doctor colliding and being stuck in the absolute mundane.
This was just something new, refreshing and different.
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Post by polly on Sept 8, 2020 19:00:25 GMT
I've only heard up to The Next Life, plus the first series of EDAs, and a couple of standalone things like Shada. I'm probably mucking things up by being an uninformed voter, but I went with the Main Range option.
Even with the Divergent stories, I think the MR stories have a lot of real highlights and only a few missteps. Chimes, Seasons of Fear, Neverland, Scherzo, Natural History, and so on. Thus far I haven't taken to the EDAs as much. Lucie's alright, but that first series is kind of "steady Eddie" but unremarkable except for Human Resources.
Of course, that can all change the more I listen.
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Post by Hieronymus on Sept 8, 2020 23:23:54 GMT
I can't vote on one over the others. Each has really strong aspects specific to the format / style / range.
The box sets do seem to all be placed later in the 8th Doctor's time, though, and therefore tend toward a darker tone. Note that I haven't listened to the Stranded series. If that series has a lighter tone with a more hopeful 8th Doctor, then it balances out. One of the few things I feel the box sets have not done as well is to preserve the optimism and lightheartedness of many of the early 8th Doctor stories; the box sets tend toward stories hinging upon imminent doom of the universe. The stories with Charley and Lucie, though sometimes very dark, also have stories with a lighter and warmer side of the 8th Doctor.
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Post by constonks on Sept 9, 2020 1:11:17 GMT
I agree that Doom Coalition is the strongest of the three full box series we've seen so far - you have a good rough idea of the concept in Vol 1 and it pays off well with lots of twists and turns along the way (including connecting some things in Vol. 1 that seem unrelated).
Ultimately I voted for boxes but I love them all and would like to see some classic four-parters for McGann again! Maybe a two-story box with Charley?
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Post by letmebebrave on Sept 9, 2020 1:43:00 GMT
I love the earlier Charley era but later it gets bogged down with C'rizz and the Divergent Universe. The Lucie era is a breath of fresh air and I love their dynamic though there aren't as high "classics" like the second Charley season.
As for the box sets, they've alternated in my enjoyment. Dark Eyes started well but got lost in the technobabble. Doom Coalition perfected the 16-episode epic, and Ravenous' arc really struggled to work with some occasional standout episodes.
My favorites of the boxsets has to be Stranded; it takes out the life-and-death, universe-ending plots but places the Doctor, Liv, and Helen in a domestic scenario and shows them dealing with that change. The Doctor doesn't really revert to his earlier optimistic character, but it does take the time to mine a lot of character drama out of the setting and especially with the Doctor struggling to deal with being land bound with no planets to save.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Sept 9, 2020 2:48:44 GMT
At the moment I am struggling with the 2cd stories, not because of plot - my attention span and my time available to sit down and listen is limited for the moment, doing house renovations etc. Hopefully that will slow down soonish.I just finished "Dark Eyes 2" again last nite. I can handle 1 cd stories, I can pretty much get through 1 during my work lunch break..
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Sept 13, 2020 12:31:29 GMT
Ive only heard the MR stories so Thats where i am lol
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,081
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Post by mbt66 on Sept 13, 2020 14:39:57 GMT
Ultimately I voted for boxes but I love them all and would like to see some classic four-parters for McGann again! Maybe a two-story box with Charley? Yes please. I remain hopeful that Big Finish will commemorate and celebrate the 20th anniversary of Paul McGann on audio with some new Eighth Doctor and Charley stories. A double set like they are currently doing with the Fourth Doctor would be great. Set between Minuet in Hell and Invaders from Mars would be very welcome. On last weeks podcast Nick indicated that something was being planned with Charley, in addition to her third series, so I have my fingers crossed that it will be future past stories with Paul McGann.
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Post by Digi on Sept 14, 2020 12:14:30 GMT
Yes. Half the stories in these box sets don't relate to the main arc. Very annoying This is what I always find confusing. The desire for some shorter stories not tied to a big arc... whilst getting annoyed that the boxsets have several stories that don’t relate to the main arc.
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Post by mrperson on Sept 14, 2020 18:49:36 GMT
Grrgh. Going to have to think about that.
Either the MR ones or the sets, for the simple reason that while there are some stories that can fit fully into 1h, I generally find longer eps better. There's more substance (unless there's just filler, but that's not common at all with BF)
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Post by shallacatop on Sept 14, 2020 18:56:15 GMT
This is what I always find confusing. The desire for some shorter stories not tied to a big arc... whilst getting annoyed that the boxsets have several stories that don’t relate to the main arc. I appreciate this is a joke, but the post, along with Dorney’s, are interesting. It seems pretty obvious to me that those who desire for some shorter stories not tied to an arc are not those that are getting annoyed that the boxsets have several stories that don’t relate to the main arc. To pretend otherwise is to miss the point of why people have different preferences. Of course, one could prefer a more arc heavy approach and not be satisfied with the arc. Similarly one could have a preference for shorter stories, but find them a little throwaway, whilst being more interested in the connected stories. Essentially, it’s not as black and white as is being made out and we shouldn’t treat it as such, particularly if it means tarring everyone with the same brush.
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Post by mrperson on Sept 14, 2020 19:22:11 GMT
Yes. Half the stories in these box sets don't relate to the main arc. Very annoying This is what I always find confusing. The desire for some shorter stories not tied to a big arc... whilst getting annoyed that the boxsets have several stories that don’t relate to the main arc. I don't see it as inconsistent to wish for having non-arc stories in one range (or in sets like Six and Peri), and to have box sets focused on arcs to be filled with arc-only episodes.
I'm not as annoyed by it as he, but I can understand it. Imagine LOTR was in four volumes, and the third was all about Gandalf's adventures in South Harad, but nothing related to the rest of it other than Gandalf's presence. A reader might be left wondering "I like this, but why am I reading about it here?"
It can be jarring like that sometimes. It works best when the standalone comes first, ie, Absent Friends. It was an outstanding start to the set despite not having anything to do with it (that I recall), and then the next three stories were related to the arc.
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Post by tordred on Sept 14, 2020 19:39:15 GMT
I think there’s an issue of matching format to story type. Doom Coalition basically perfected the four box set saga, and while Ravenous was also very good, it felt more like it would’ve fit the 8DA style one hour episodes.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,070
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Post by dorney on Sept 14, 2020 20:13:34 GMT
I appreciate this is a joke, but the post, along with Dorney’s, are interesting. It seems pretty obvious to me that those who desire for some shorter stories not tied to an arc are not those that are getting annoyed that the boxsets have several stories that don’t relate to the main arc. To pretend otherwise is to miss the point of why people have different preferences. I mean, to be fair, this was prompted by two comments from the same poster that there didn’t need to be sixteen episode stories and that half the episodes didn’t relate to the arc. Which seems a little contradictory. But the point it’s about expectation, rather than the content itself, is a reasonable one.
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