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Post by shallacatop on Jun 23, 2021 6:58:15 GMT
Lion Hearts was interesting. A story structure like that is hard to achieve on screen, never mind on audio, but it's well executed and bravo to Lou Morgan for that. It's almost a bit of an unsettling listen at times, building up on what the Doctor shows he's capable of in the previous episode. He's very sure of himself and his decision and it's a shock. Of course, it's not quite what it seems in the end, but I think the point is that you believe he's made that choice. And he's done it in quite a callous manner. It makes you wonder what the impact will be when he makes that choice and there's no other option. I feel like that's what we're building up to, as nobody really knows just how different he is yet at this point. Slight criticism is I wish the story had carried on directly from Light the Flame. It feels like there's a gap and my preference would be for the first events of a new incarnation to be pretty much back-to-back. The Shadow Squad is a nice contrast to Lion Hearts, like that was to Light the Flame. It's a great concept and gives us further insight into the machinations of Gallifrey and their constant plans and battles to get one up over the Daleks / Skaro. I think the focus here is the conclusion of the War Doctor's origins and his character arc, which is the heart of the set. It comes to a head here, with how he confronts the Daleks, handles them and solidifies that he is different to his previous incarnations and does what needs to be done. That doesn't make him a bloodthirsty bastard or anything like that, but by the end of this he's become the soldier that he needed to be. That doesn't mean he loses his quirks that the Doctor has either. Overall it's a great set and perhaps my favourite release from Big Finish this year. It's an event but doesn't treat it as an event; it just gets on with it, which feels very appropriate for this incarnation. As I mentioned in my previous post, I feel there's a good indication of where they want to go with this range and his evolution in just three stories solidifies this. I'm intrigued to see it develop more and to get the War Doctor that leads on the battlefield, does stuff his own way and winds up the War Council no end, but instils faith in his comrades that what he's doing is right. I'd quite like to see the Doctor on Gallifrey in the next set and some glimpses of the military genius that's been alluded to. Superbly put my friend, I've yet to hear this but Mark 687 & yourself got me buzzed about listening to this audio drama. It sounds like they doing a interesting arc on a very different incarnation from pacifist to soldier. I thought it was a long rambling collation of thoughts, but glad that you enjoyed it. Thank you! Yeah, there does seem to be the intention to develop the character and make him a distinct incarnation. And that’s not a slight on Hurt or his series at all. I think they’re great in their own right, and he’s much more weary, which is what you’d have to be to make the decision to take The Moment.
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Post by project37 on Jun 23, 2021 7:32:37 GMT
Superbly put my friend, I've yet to hear this but Mark 687 & yourself got me buzzed about listening to this audio drama. It sounds like they doing a interesting arc on a very different incarnation from pacifist to soldier. I thought it was a long rambling collation of thoughts, but glad that you enjoyed it. Thank you! Yeah, there does seem to be the intention to develop the character and make him a distinct incarnation. And that’s not a slight on Hurt or his series at all. I think they’re great in their own right, and he’s much more weary, which is what you’d have to be to make the decision to take The Moment. I enjoyed your post as well! It's clear that Carley's performance is a revelation, but as someone that was ultimately underwhelmed by the previous War Doctor releases, I'm more interested in the stories and the narrative potential of this particular incarnation.
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 23, 2021 7:54:09 GMT
Man, really looking forward to this. Thanks for the great reviews! But it might have to wait for another week until I am on my holiday. Just too busy with work in the real work, and having to work again this weekend. And Sunday I have invited the parents over for a fancy dinner.
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Post by antartiks on Jun 23, 2021 9:29:16 GMT
I know my comment won't be original after all your posts, but damn, I feel like Carley is Big Finish's best recast by far. I swear 99% of the time I could only hear John Hurt. I remember the reactions at the time when this new range was announced, but I understand now why they felt so confident in recasting the actor so "soon" after John Hurt - one of the very best actor there ever was- passed away.
I've only listened to the first episode so far, but yeah, that was a terrific opener. And one of my favorite post regeneration episodes now, since it is exactly that. I feel like these new War Doctor stories might achieve what the previous one failed to do, that is, give us an idea of who the War Doctor is. The fact that the Daleks seem to not be in every episode also helps a lot.
A really strong first episode, I really enjoyed it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 11:33:26 GMT
Heck, yes. As everyone seems to agree - rare among fans, the DU excepted - Jonathan Carley is BF's most convincing recast so far, and that's saying something. It's genuinely uncanny.
As for Light in the Flame: a nice melancholy, spooky beginning in which the listener would benefit from having seen Paul McGann's last stand as The Doctor. Ominous thunder ripples as 'The Doctor' mourns his 'friend', and his previous incarnation, describing him as 'foolish.' Early parts of this episode remind me of Only the Monstrous in style and pacing, which for my money was the most enjoyable set of War Doctor stories. An approaching apocalypse; the calm before the storm. Gazing into a starlit alien sky and preparing for the inevitable death and destruction. The sense of dread is well conveyed, 'another kind of darkness'.
I really enjoyed this. Somehow, this War Doctor seems so small against the might of the Time War, and our sympathies, and concerns, are with him. Better than ever so far, I think, we get a better idea of the persepctive on the war, the immensity of the threat, through Karn's port-holes. It's a wonderful set-up. I like the supporting characters too - the various sisters of Karn, Helen Goldwyn's plain-speaking Sanmar (her final scene here is especially memorable), Anna Andresen's appealing Lithea; and of course the sound design and music, always a BF strong point, is here epic and cinematic and all those other words.
I'm not a massive fan of Gallifrey and the Time Lords, if I'm honest, but I do like the way this story (among others, of course) comes close to exposing the race as every bit as corrupt and manipulative as any other great power - only on a far bigger scale. If we must focus on the Great Bickerers (and there's a lot of bickering here), then this is the kind of way I like it.
(Lovely words from David Richardson about the late John Hurt in the extras)
And that cover ... gorgeous {Spoiler} (although - and I hate to point this out - the Tharil featured isn't Biroc, who is listed in the credits).
This, after Avalon and The Robots 4 this month - Big Finish are on very good form at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 11:46:00 GMT
Couldn't be impressed enough with The War Doctor Begins: Forged in Fire. Such an excellent way to properly introduce the titular incarnation, with three epic scripts and casting. And doesn't Jonathon Carley sound identical to the late John Hurt. Outstanding work!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 13:31:38 GMT
Lion Hearts is an interestingly low-key tale, at least compared to the hugeness of this box-set's opener. There are a few fond nods to Warriors' Gate (a favourite story of mine), not least the hunt for Biroc (here accompanied by a group of Tharils, one of whom is featured on the cover) played very nicely by John Dorney. There is some good heartfelt dialogue between Dorney and Jonathan Carley which is very effective. The War Doctor recasting continues in its flawless way - it really is an incredible performance - in fact, this is a really good cast, nicely directed by Louise Jameson. Sound design and music work well together to create as convincing a backdrop as you could imagine - kudos to Jack Townley and Howard Carter.
One of the things that threatened to put me off this range, and the Time War in general, is the fear that it's just the Doctor and the Daleks and lots of explosions. Stories like this prove that's not the case, and while it's good to hear from those pepperpots from time to time, it's also good to explore the many other things going on. I loved this, I loved the previous story. I'm quite optimistic that I'll love The Shadow Squad too.
Nice extras as well - good to hear from David Richardson ("I love a Tharil") that the leonine mesomorphs will be back in one form or another. A revisit to E-Space, I wonder?
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Post by Andymac on Jun 24, 2021 17:16:39 GMT
I really enjoyed this set.
They managed so much with such a small cast of characters. They definitely captured the feel of universe that's on the brink because of the War. It feels more like what we saw in Day of the Doctor than the BF releases have done so far, which makes sense since this is the closing 'years' (if that's got any meaning in a time war) of the war.
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Post by IndieMacUser on Jun 25, 2021 11:41:12 GMT
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Post by Chakoteya on Jun 25, 2021 16:09:09 GMT
Just finished Flame. Wow, what a good start. Still the Doctor, but with added... something.
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Post by Digi on Jun 25, 2021 17:12:02 GMT
Done the first two episodes so far, and really enjoying it. The first one was a lot of mood that I thought was very well done, and it was nice to see (hear) an active combat zone in episode 2, and all the plot evolution/twists it went through. I'm a firm believer that the War Doctor should be a very morally grey character so I'm slightly disappointed that the twist ended up being what it was....but at the same time, this is still very early in this incarnation's life and I'm content for him to evolve as a character over time. We are getting at least 12 of these stories, and rationally I know it would be silly to go dark side in just the second hour.
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Post by pawntake on Jun 25, 2021 19:11:16 GMT
Just listened to the 1st story so far! "Light in the Flame" Jonathan Carley is certainly "Cooking on Gas!" What a remarkable performance!
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Post by Digi on Jun 25, 2021 22:30:20 GMT
Finished it up a little while ago, that was really quite good!
Even better: for the last couple of hours I've been reflecting on this set as a set of post-regenerative adventures.... Going from (chronology as I presume it) Eight despairing in Lies in Ruins, to nearly crushed but finding hope in Museum Peace, to having his newfound hope crushed in Night of the Doctor, and then reborn into this and finding a new path...it really, really works.
Very happy with this! Kinda sucks we have to wait six months for the next set...
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 26, 2021 7:23:34 GMT
I’d forgotten the release schedule for this, so was surprised to see a six month gap. I think I’d gotten it in my head it was three months, like the 9DAs and Dalek Universe?
Amazing to think we’ve had a series each from War, Nine & Ten this year.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 10:22:54 GMT
The Shadow Squad by Andrew Smith.
Just to say, I love the omnipresent rumbles of distant thunder in these stories. A minor thing, perhaps, but it adds an extra layer of doom to the proceedings - and is another reason to love Jack Townley's sound design.
This story finds a somewhat chirpy War Doctor teaming up once more with Tamasan where this new incarnation 'finally' meets the Daleks. I do feel that the creatures have been hugely over-used, especially of late, but there are still inventive ways to feature them in a story. Keeping them largely in the proverbial shadows whilst others follow their plans is one way, and is interestingly used in Andrew Smith's typically solid story - it's so good that Smith has become a regular writer for BF. I've often felt that the Dalek Time Strategist is a cut-price Davros, another voice for Nick Briggs to do, albeit a very effective one. While this story doesn't exactly change my mind, the character is beautifully used here, and time manipulation is pushed to the forefront in a very satisfying way. Thing is with Daleks, no matter how original the story-line, they'll never be anything other than Daleks. Brutal and unbothered who they kill. The wonderful thing about this story is 'the Doctor' is perceived in pretty much the same way. I'd like to see this go further, but for now, he's on fine form. Forging and fighting fire with fire.
There was some comment about the resolution to the previous story, about it's resetting the belief that 'the Doctor' had killed masses of Tharils. I actually liked the twist; not everyone did. There's a similar twist at the end of this, albeit with different repercussions, this time in the Daleks' favour, bless 'em. With The War Doctor, there's a tricky balance to be maintained. Should he be a mass killer, should he really commit unspeakable acts, bearing in mind he became Christopher Eccleston and The Doctor once more? Or should he still be the hero in this incarnation, just willfully misunderstood?
This has been a terrific set and I'll be signing up for more assignations with Jonathan Carley's wonderful War Doctor.
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Post by antartiks on Jun 26, 2021 10:58:29 GMT
I’d forgotten the release schedule for this, so was surprised to see a six month gap. I think I’d gotten it in my head it was three months, like the 9DAs and Dalek Universe? Amazing to think we’ve had a series each from War, Nine & Ten this year. Yeah, combined with a significant lack of Eighth Doctor content compared to previous years, the ending of the Monthly Range last March, and loads of Ten or Time War content, this year feels like the "year of NuWho" at Big Finish, more than ever before.
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Post by elkawho on Jun 26, 2021 14:15:48 GMT
I’d forgotten the release schedule for this, so was surprised to see a six month gap. I think I’d gotten it in my head it was three months, like the 9DAs and Dalek Universe? Amazing to think we’ve had a series each from War, Nine & Ten this year. Yeah, combined with a significant lack of Eighth Doctor content compared to previous years, the ending of the Monthly Range last March, and loads of Ten or Time War content, this year feels like the "year of NuWho" at Big Finish, more than ever before. Yeah. I was just about to comment that I believe this and Dalek Universe are the best things to come from Big Finish this year. Both Modern Who stories. Who would have thought.?
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Post by antartiks on Jun 27, 2021 10:58:03 GMT
Yeah, combined with a significant lack of Eighth Doctor content compared to previous years, the ending of the Monthly Range last March, and loads of Ten or Time War content, this year feels like the "year of NuWho" at Big Finish, more than ever before. Yeah. I was just about to comment that I believe this and Dalek Universe are the best things to come from Big Finish this year. Both Modern Who stories. Who would have thought.? Color me surprised too, as I was absolutely not planning on listening to Dalek Universe after I read the Vortex article, which did a huge disservice to the tone of the box set in my opinion, presenting it as pure fanjodrell when we've been getting something much deeper and Tennant's best BF performance to date instead. BF has been in very fine form this year if you ask me.
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Post by elkawho on Jun 27, 2021 14:08:11 GMT
Yeah. I was just about to comment that I believe this and Dalek Universe are the best things to come from Big Finish this year. Both Modern Who stories. Who would have thought.? Color me surprised too, as I was absolutely not planning on listening to Dalek Universe after I read the Vortex article, which did a huge disservice to the tone of the box set in my opinion, presenting it as pure fanjodrell when we've been getting something much deeper and Tennant's best BF performance to date instead. BF has been in very fine form this year if you ask me. I completely agree. And what makes it even more odd for me is that I'm one of those folks who has not been completely won over by the idea of the War Doctor. I love John Hurt's performance both on TV and in the audios. The boxsets are great and I am thankful we have those and that we have Hurt as part of the DW universe. However I have never stopped feeling as if his incarnation was an unnecessary bit of stunt casting/storytelling for the 50th and that it is completely unnecessary. It should have been Paul Mcgann. Mostly because no one has ever written him all that different than The Doctor we know, just cranky. I've never felt that his existence has been justified. This set is the first time that a chink has been made into that idea. Carly's performance combined with the writing gives us a Doctor that needs to be an unknown quantity in the war. It's the first time I can see why he exists. That is amazing to me.
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Post by Who Review on Jun 30, 2021 12:35:30 GMT
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