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Post by muckypup on Apr 18, 2021 11:48:29 GMT
Defiantly should go to specials or franchise out, the bbc can not afford to do a costly show and it shows........ Which is why they spent the inflated costs to make the show with covid measures instead of waiting or cancelling. You're entitled to dislike or not completely the show mucky, but that's not a point against it that makes much sense. Not sure what Covid has to do with the shoddy special effects, look at mandalorian season 2 part filmed and finished in the pandemic or even the Netflix/bbc dark materials done the same. they look fantastic with the effects looking grounded in the real world........ that level of effects requires extra money which the bbc does not have on its own..... so it feels budget me. I know the budget feel was part of the shows charm, but not today when we’re flooded with genre shows. It needs double the money to make it a show, worthy of its history and to compare with the competition
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 18, 2021 11:54:03 GMT
Which is why they spent the inflated costs to make the show with covid measures instead of waiting or cancelling. You're entitled to dislike or not completely the show mucky, but that's not a point against it that makes much sense. Not sure what Covid has to do with the shoddy special effects, look at mandalorian season 2 part filmed and finished in the pandemic or even the Netflix/bbc dark materials done the same. they look fantastic with the effects looking grounded in the real world........ that level of effects requires extra money which the bbc does not have on its own..... so it feels budget me. I know the budget feel was part of the shows charm, but not today when we’re flooded with genre shows. It needs double the money to make it a show, worthy of its history and to compare with the competition I brought it up because you said they weren't spending money and I just pointed out they did, and in a way that shows they still want to make it. As to citing the Mandalorian, I did basically a catch-all to that at the bottom of the last page.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 18, 2021 11:54:40 GMT
Which is why they spent the inflated costs to make the show with covid measures instead of waiting or cancelling. You're entitled to dislike or not completely the show mucky, but that's not a point against it that makes much sense. Not sure what Covid has to do with the shoddy special effects, look at mandalorian season 2 part filmed and finished in the pandemic or even the Netflix/bbc dark materials done the same. they look fantastic with the effects looking grounded in the real world........ that level of effects requires extra money which the bbc does not have on its own..... so it feels budget me. I know the budget feel was part of the shows charm, but not today when we’re flooded with genre shows. It needs double the money to make it a show, worthy of its history and to compare with the competition BBC is never going to be able to compete with Disney. Their resources are nigh-infinite at this point. I suppose they could make Who a co-production similarly to His Dark Materials, but Whoniverse co-productions don’t exactly have a good track record (TV Movie, Torchwood: Miracle Day).
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Apr 18, 2021 12:06:12 GMT
Not sure what Covid has to do with the shoddy special effects, look at mandalorian season 2 part filmed and finished in the pandemic or even the Netflix/bbc dark materials done the same. they look fantastic with the effects looking grounded in the real world........ that level of effects requires extra money which the bbc does not have on its own..... so it feels budget me. I know the budget feel was part of the shows charm, but not today when we’re flooded with genre shows. It needs double the money to make it a show, worthy of its history and to compare with the competition BBC is never going to be able to compete with Disney. Their resources are nigh-infinite at this point. I suppose they could make Who a co-production similarly to His Dark Materials, but Whoniverse co-productions don’t exactly have a good track record (TV Movie, Torchwood: Miracle Day). Yes, if they did try to do a co-production I think the show would look better (although I think it looks great anyway, the cinematography, direction etc are far better than all these CW shows for example) but would it retain its tone? Would there be too much interference from overseas partners as to content?
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Post by muckypup on Apr 18, 2021 12:12:50 GMT
Not sure what Covid has to do with the shoddy special effects, look at mandalorian season 2 part filmed and finished in the pandemic or even the Netflix/bbc dark materials done the same. they look fantastic with the effects looking grounded in the real world........ that level of effects requires extra money which the bbc does not have on its own..... so it feels budget me. I know the budget feel was part of the shows charm, but not today when we’re flooded with genre shows. It needs double the money to make it a show, worthy of its history and to compare with the competition BBC is never going to be able to compete with Disney. Their resources are nigh-infinite at this point. I suppose they could make Who a co-production similarly to His Dark Materials, but Whoniverse co-productions don’t exactly have a good track record (TV Movie, Torchwood: Miracle Day). Oh I had forgotten about miracle day.......shudder perhaps we better putting up with what we got.......point taken
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Post by muckypup on Apr 18, 2021 12:31:23 GMT
Not sure what Covid has to do with the shoddy special effects, look at mandalorian season 2 part filmed and finished in the pandemic or even the Netflix/bbc dark materials done the same. they look fantastic with the effects looking grounded in the real world........ that level of effects requires extra money which the bbc does not have on its own..... so it feels budget me. I know the budget feel was part of the shows charm, but not today when we’re flooded with genre shows. It needs double the money to make it a show, worthy of its history and to compare with the competition I brought it up because you said they weren't spending money and I just pointed out they did, and in a way that shows they still want to make it. As to citing the Mandalorian, I did basically a catch-all to that at the bottom of the last page. Cannot really disagree with any thing, it’s just if you, cannot match the competition it’s going just lose it’s audience ..... I am afraid it’s getting to the evolve or die time..... but maybe there’s still enough love to keep it going for a few years yet.
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Post by timegirl on Apr 18, 2021 13:12:36 GMT
I brought it up because you said they weren't spending money and I just pointed out they did, and in a way that shows they still want to make it. As to citing the Mandalorian, I did basically a catch-all to that at the bottom of the last page. Cannot really disagree with any thing, it’s just if you, cannot match the competition it’s going just lose it’s audience ..... I am afraid it’s getting to the evolve or die time..... but maybe there’s still enough love to keep it going for a few years yet. But I don’t think people watch DW just for the special effects, they watch it for the characters, the interesting storytelling, and creative ideas. I know from my perspective special effects are one of the last things I care about with DW, for me it’s all about the imaginative story lines and character relationships. Yes, fancy special effects are nice and all but I don’t think the majority of the general public or fandom has a problem with the way Who looks currently. Like I said in my earlier post, I might not like everything about the current era, but there is still a lot of imagination and creativity, people are still very much talking about Who, and it’s even been nominated for awards. I don’t think the show has ever stopped evolving. So what if it doesn’t look like The Mandilorian or His Dark Materials? I think Doctor Who is pretty good at being Doctor Who. I don’t think we need to worry about it getting canceled any time soon nor should we wish for cancellation. Why would we want to deprive kids from the inspiration and escapism Doctor Who provides just because it doesn’t fit our exact perfect vision for what the show should be? I don’t think kids care that DW has the same special effects budget as HBO or Disney, they watch it because they want to travel with or even be the Doctor. Not every era of DW is perfect for everyone, and that’s okay. DW is still an important and incredibly unique show that needs to exist, let it run forever!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 17:22:03 GMT
Defiantly should go to specials or franchise out, the bbc can not afford to do a costly show and it shows........ Which is why they spent the inflated costs to make the show with covid measures instead of waiting or cancelling. You're entitled to dislike or not completely the show mucky, but that's not a point against it that makes much sense. The BBC has barely ever foot the bill on their own for Doctor Who.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 17:23:19 GMT
Not sure what Covid has to do with the shoddy special effects, look at mandalorian season 2 part filmed and finished in the pandemic or even the Netflix/bbc dark materials done the same. they look fantastic with the effects looking grounded in the real world........ that level of effects requires extra money which the bbc does not have on its own..... so it feels budget me. I know the budget feel was part of the shows charm, but not today when we’re flooded with genre shows. It needs double the money to make it a show, worthy of its history and to compare with the competition BBC is never going to be able to compete with Disney. Their resources are nigh-infinite at this point. I suppose they could make Who a co-production similarly to His Dark Materials, but Whoniverse co-productions don’t exactly have a good track record (TV Movie, Torchwood: Miracle Day). Series 1-4 of NuWho and Series 1&2 of Torchwood were co-produced by the CBC... So what are you talking about? Lol
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 19, 2021 17:42:16 GMT
Which is why they spent the inflated costs to make the show with covid measures instead of waiting or cancelling. You're entitled to dislike or not completely the show mucky, but that's not a point against it that makes much sense. The BBC has barely ever foot the bill on their own for Doctor Who. Yes they do. Bringing in your other point, CBC are distributors, not co-producers on Who - the two are completely different roles. NuWho is a British show, not a British-Canadian one. Torchwood - that's a co-pro with CBC, but Russell's Who was not. Want to know if a show's a co-pro without digging on IMDB - jump to the very end of the credits and look at logos.
Penny Dreadful - co pro (Neal Street (UK) and Showtime (US)) His Dark Materials - co pro (HBO (US) and BBC (UK)) Jump over to any NuWho episode - notice what logo's not at the end of the episode? CBC.
This is like the HBO claim that keeps floating about - no, Warners Bros are not involved with making Who in any meaningful capacity. They just distribute it in North America i.e.e selling it after the fact, rather than be active investors who directly contribute to the bill and are actually involved with production.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Apr 19, 2021 17:55:51 GMT
BBC is never going to be able to compete with Disney. Their resources are nigh-infinite at this point. I suppose they could make Who a co-production similarly to His Dark Materials, but Whoniverse co-productions don’t exactly have a good track record (TV Movie, Torchwood: Miracle Day). Series 1-4 of NuWho and Series 1&2 of Torchwood were co-produced by the CBC... So what are you talking about? Lol They had a co-production credit but according to the Dr Who wiki page - The CBC also received screen credit for contributing development funds towards the new series. Graeme Burk, writing in the June 2009 issue of Enlightenment (#151), however, states that it wasn't a traditional co-production so much as it was an acquisition deal (it was credited as a co-production because the funding was given in advance of the series being produced). Burk writes that a more traditional co-production model can be found with the the CBC's involvement in the Showtime cable series The Tudors, where they not only provided funding but also creative input. There was "no real weight" with the CBC's co-producer credit on Doctor Who.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 23:49:36 GMT
Series 1-4 of NuWho and Series 1&2 of Torchwood were co-produced by the CBC... So what are you talking about? Lol They had a co-production credit but according to the Dr Who wiki page - The CBC also received screen credit for contributing development funds towards the new series. Graeme Burk, writing in the June 2009 issue of Enlightenment (#151), however, states that it wasn't a traditional co-production so much as it was an acquisition deal (it was credited as a co-production because the funding was given in advance of the series being produced). Burk writes that a more traditional co-production model can be found with the the CBC's involvement in the Showtime cable series The Tudors, where they not only provided funding but also creative input. There was "no real weight" with the CBC's co-producer credit on Doctor Who.A similar co-production credit can be found on The Five Doctors, which was produced with contributions from the Australian Broadcasting Commission. They entered the agreement as what in business terms is called a silent partner. $60,000 AUD was allotted to the finances of the special with no creative input and an agreement to forgo onscreen credit (which I suspect may have been down to their rebranding that year). The first and, sadly, only time that such a thing happened over the course of the original series' run. It was quite a revolutionary arrangement in 1983.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 15:01:02 GMT
The BBC has barely ever foot the bill on their own for Doctor Who. Yes they do. Bringing in your other point, CBC are distributors, not co-producers on Who - the two are completely different roles. NuWho is a British show, not a British-Canadian one. Torchwood - that's a co-pro with CBC, but Russell's Who was not. Want to know if a show's a co-pro without digging on IMDB - jump to the very end of the credits and look at logos.
Penny Dreadful - co pro (Neal Street (UK) and Showtime (US)) His Dark Materials - co pro (HBO (US) and BBC (UK)) Jump over to any NuWho episode - notice what logo's not at the end of the episode? CBC.
This is like the HBO claim that keeps floating about - no, Warners Bros are not involved with making Who in any meaningful capacity. They just distribute it in North America i.e.e selling it after the fact, rather than be active investors who directly contribute to the bill and are actually involved with production.
... Yeah... Look at the end of the credits LMFAO, IT SAYS CO-PRODUCED series 1-4 by the CBC. I didn't use IMDb, it's called watch the episodes
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 15:03:04 GMT
And besides, I said that they haven't been footing the bill the entire time, which is correct.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 15:09:28 GMT
youtu.be/BlbbK7Rao-4Cant find many credits in the web and i don't have my dvds to hand but i Genuinely cant see where it says that
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 21, 2021 15:24:31 GMT
Yes they do. Bringing in your other point, CBC are distributors, not co-producers on Who - the two are completely different roles. NuWho is a British show, not a British-Canadian one. Torchwood - that's a co-pro with CBC, but Russell's Who was not. Want to know if a show's a co-pro without digging on IMDB - jump to the very end of the credits and look at logos.
Penny Dreadful - co pro (Neal Street (UK) and Showtime (US)) His Dark Materials - co pro (HBO (US) and BBC (UK)) Jump over to any NuWho episode - notice what logo's not at the end of the episode? CBC.
This is like the HBO claim that keeps floating about - no, Warners Bros are not involved with making Who in any meaningful capacity. They just distribute it in North America i.e.e selling it after the fact, rather than be active investors who directly contribute to the bill and are actually involved with production.
... Yeah... Look at the end of the credits LMFAO, IT SAYS CO-PRODUCED series 1-4 by the CBC. I didn't use IMDb, it's called watch the episodes Well sega, I double checked and you're right - but only on S3. S1, 2 and 4 make no reference to CBC. I did check the episodes on BBC iPlayer, here in the UK, and there's no CBC logo or thanks or references to any type of associate producers from the CBC on the other episodes. Even on S3 - outside of the end logo, nothing else to indicate much, if any, real Canadian input, which lines up with what JHD was talking about with the 'kind of-not really co-production arrangement' from Burke.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Apr 21, 2021 16:24:26 GMT
... Yeah... Look at the end of the credits LMFAO, IT SAYS CO-PRODUCED series 1-4 by the CBC. I didn't use IMDb, it's called watch the episodes I am assuming you are in Canada, I can assume also that this credit was only shown on the CBC broadcast because there is NO REFERENCE to CBC on any of the end credits to the shows as broadcast in the UK, LMFAO. According to the 'Doctor Who in Canada and the United States' page of wiki - "CBC was not given an "in association with..." screen credit during the closing credits of season four episodes, unlike its credit during the first three series". So it wouldn't say that on season 4 anyway, LMFAO. Also, in association is quite different to co-produced & as has been mentioned earlier in this thread the co-production credit in respect of CBC is simply "an acquisition deal (it was credited as a co-production because the funding was given in advance of the series being produced)". If it was a true co-production (which involved creative input not simply a pre-sale) as with shows like His Dark Materials then I would imagine they would be contractually obligated to state that in the credits of all broadcasts as is done in His Dark Materials.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Apr 21, 2021 20:56:43 GMT
Here is visual info, some very interesting CBC Doctor Who Interstitials which show the CBC mention on the end credits, which is NOT co-produced LMFAO but the more vague term "in association with"
Although it is a bit of a different credit on this one.
Interesting to see how the show is presented overseas, which was in part due to ad breaks & getting the show to the 60min running time.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 22, 2021 19:16:34 GMT
Either way, the point stands: the Beeb are the ones keeping the lights on for Chibbs and the team, and whoever else comes after. Let's put that to bed.
Given how much talk there's been about changes to the licence fee, increased government (Tory) involvement and a bunch of other hub bub in UK media, there's an argument to be made that quality ('the writing') may not even end up being what decides the future of the show, IF it came to that point.
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Post by number13 on Apr 23, 2021 17:27:27 GMT
Either way, the point stands: the Beeb are the ones keeping the lights on for Chibbs and the team, and whoever else comes after. Let's put that to bed. Given how much talk there's been about changes to the licence fee, increased government (Tory) involvement and a bunch of other hub bub in UK media, there's an argument to be made that quality ('the writing') may not even end up being what decides the future of the show, IF it came to that point. Why would you think a Tory government would impact on modern 'Doctor Who'? That's a genuine question btw, it's not like this is the late 80s where there was some fairly blatant party politicking going on, almost inviting cancellation at times imo.
Answer to the poll: no of course not. Last season was a cracker (apart from I hated the finale but I think I've told the entire universe that by now, collectively and individually! )
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