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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 18:20:26 GMT
If the newest series of Doctor Who is massively divisive again and more people drop the show, should it go on hiatus for awhile? As it currently stands, we keep getting big breaks between series and specials. Each series lately has had massive amounts of dropping of viewers and fans. That's not even counting the controversial Timeless Child bit.
What's everyone's thoughts? Should the show take a break to figure itself out again, or is it better to flip a coin and hope it all works out?
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Apr 17, 2021 18:31:25 GMT
I know a certain section of fandom would love it because they can say, "I told you so" (nobody hates Dr Who more than Dr Who fans) but no I don't think it should go on hiatus. As for the big breaks, remember the 2008 - 2010 issue with just a few specials? The pandemic has of course caused some issues but that is impacting on a lot of tv/film. I don't think the show is divisive or controversial, well certainly no more divisive or controversial than it has been in the past it is just that we have a section of fandom who now shout the loudest on social media. There have been times over the past few years where I haven't enjoyed Who but I haven't thought it should go on hiatus.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 18:40:42 GMT
It seems to me the show goes on hiatus after every series at the moment! I don't think it should. I'm not an expert, but regarding viewing figures, it's very rare ratings hit the highs of days gone by. Changing viewing habits and all that. EastEnders, for example, used to be a huge rating soap opera. Now it barely scrapes 3.5 million. By contrast, Doctor Who's New Year show got, in consolidated figures, over 6 million.
Not to get too bogged down with viewing figures, but artistically speaking - if we can call it that - I don't think the show has slipped, just changed. For the clever, inter-weaving tapestries Steven Moffat used to create, we now have clearer narratives and less complicated stories. Some people see this as a good thing, others don't.
Finally, there is nothing like Doctor Who on UK telly. Nothing at all. In a world of Star Wars/Star Trek spin-offs and other flourishing fantasy shows, Doctor Who is far and away the biggest one the UK has to offer. It is unique, and it is valued by the BBC, in a way that hasn't always been the case. If Jodie really is leaving - and I'm still not convinced she is - a new Doctor will provide new interest, a new impetus and bring in more viewers (at least initially).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 19:00:24 GMT
I mean people still enjoy it so no it shouldn’t.
Now I wouldn’t be particularly upset if it did, i think 17 years of continuous (pretty much) production is damn good for any show but i also think i personally have reached the peak of my enjoyment of the current show. Still with changing creatives and changing leads, i might feel motivated for televised who in the future and if its cancelled their won’t be televised who so i guess even then it should stay.
But the main thing is that it has solid ratings and people still enjoy it so what i feel is redundant. As long as its achieving those two things which if is, if should stay on air
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Post by mark687 on Apr 17, 2021 19:12:12 GMT
No But I think Chibnail should be made to do a "Pebble 1" type thing with him on the receiving end this time. Regards mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 19:17:19 GMT
Well, for myself, I don't watch the current series (beyond the Woman Who Fell to Earth and a few bits and pieces). It has not appealed to me from what synopses and a diverse range of reviews I have read, and for a lot of reasons better summarised by others here who have actually watched it and balanced the positives and negatives. I don't dislike it, but nor am I invested in it anymore. Time availability factors more than actual avoidance - I just seem to have more on the watch list that trumps every time given the choice of catching up or something else.
But I do appreciate that many do like its current direction and that it is at least moving forward and not moribund. Why should I wish to deprive those fans and viewers who are getting so much more out of it at present than they have done for a long while or perhaps never did before.
A hiatus in this day and age of TV programmes would not be temporary, I fear, but permanent. It was hard enough for Russell T Davies to get it going again back in 2004/5, so really it needs to hand in there and keep going. The schedules are more unforgiving now than they were then, and quality Original Drama is a lot thinner at peak time, bar literary adaptations or remakes.
Yes it has lost viewers but it has also gained many new viewers. There is maybe an equilibrium they need to find whereby both camps of viewers are catered for again.
I would far rather it existed than not. I find it sad whereby long term prominent fans call for its suspension, even though I may emphasise with some of what they write. They should not be so proprietorial or egotistical to feel that a show made and funded by others should cater mostly to their middle aged demographic.
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Post by timegirl on Apr 17, 2021 19:20:29 GMT
No, it shouldn’t. While I don’t love everything about the current era, I don’t think DW is unpopular or lacking in quality enough to warrant a hiatus. It’s still very much being talked about about and even nominated for awards. Yes, the Timeless Children is very controversial but then again so was Hell Bent and that seems to have gotten fan critical reappraisal in recent years. I think we all need to wait and see how the rest of Chibnall’s plan for the Timeless Children storyline plays out before we make any final verdicts on it. I think the Timeless Doctors are an interesting new idea that could open up DW up to a lot of new and exciting stories if fully utilized. Also if you strongly dislike Timless Children as a story arch, you can probably be reassured that a show runner further down the line from Chibnall will probably either totally undo the implications or say no actually this means it’s actually this. If DW did go on hiatus there is no guarantee that we would get an RTD to bring the show back. Not everyone is going to love everything about every era and that’s okay. DW should definitely stay on the air even if it’s not perfect for everyone there is still a lot of imagination and creativity and you never know how it’s going to inspire kids watching it. Even if you don’t like Jodie as the Doctor she could be inspiring little kids right now who could one day grow up to play the Doctor or be showrunner all because they were inspired by what they saw during this current era. Doctor Who may it live forever!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 21:21:04 GMT
No, it shouldn’t. While I don’t love everything about the current era, I don’t think DW is unpopular or lacking in quality enough to warrant a hiatus. It’s still very much being talked about about and even nominated for awards. Yes, the Timeless Children is very controversial but then again so was Hell Bent and that seems to have gotten fan critical reappraisal in recent years. I think we all need to wait and see how the rest of Chibnall’s plan for the Timeless Children storyline plays out before we make any final verdicts on it. I think the Timeless Doctors are an interesting new idea that could open up DW up to a lot of new and exciting stories if fully utilized. Also if you strongly dislike Timless Children as a story arch, you can probably be reassured that a show runner further down the line from Chibnall will probably either totally undo the implications or say no actually this means it’s actually this. If DW did go on hiatus there is no guarantee that we would get an RTD to bring the show back. Not everyone is going to love everything about every era and that’s okay. DW should definitely stay on the air even if it’s not perfect for everyone there is still a lot of imagination and creativity and you never know how it’s going to inspire kids watching it. Even if you don’t like Jodie as the Doctor she could be inspiring little kids right now who could one day grow up to play the Doctor or be showrunner all because they were inspired by what they saw during this current era. Doctor Who may it live forever! I think, as many of us recognise, that the revivals of the series were not really driven by a desire on the behalf of the BBC to get it up and running again. The 90's TVM came about (eventually) because Steven Spielberg took an interest in the show, though it was Phillip David Segal who kept the project active as he moved on. The eventual 2005 reincarnation came about because the BBC had a 'get Russell' agenda after Russell T Davies' 'Queer as Folk' breakthrough success. It was entirely down to him, and his considerable creative value, that as a long term fan. when he insisted that he wanted to do 'Doctor Who', he got the commission and the rest is history. It could be a long wait for the next industry big shot came around who wanted to do 'Doctor Who' over and above something new, so lets hope they keep the flame burning as long as is feasible. Like it or not, as far as our preferences vary, its still a quality piece of Television by many measures.
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Post by doctorkernow on Apr 17, 2021 21:57:17 GMT
Hello again.
As others have said. Doctor Who is a unique story-telling machine. You can literally go anywhere and anywhen, each era has had its own style and ideas and we all have our favourites. Nuwho has ploughed its own furrow but has clear links and throwbacks to Classic Who. I think a hiatus would be bad for the show. While I have not been a fan of many of the creative decisions taken in theChibnall era. I loved the idea of an older companion, the return of historicals albeit with that inevitable sci-fi element, I liked the backpack Dalek mutant and the change from naive and happy-go-lucky Doctor to a more grittier portrayal after the events of Spyfall.
Series 11 was an interesting, if flawed, experiment. Series 12 was a lot of fun, Orphan 54 excepted. I am keen to see if Season 13 is a further improvement. I'm not sure if Jodie will be going and I think Mr Chibnall will stay a bit longer, probably until the 60th. What we as fans sometimes forget is that Doctor Who is adifficult show to write for and no producer, script editor, writer or director ever wants an episode to be unsuccessful.
Doctor Who is unique and even if I'm not enjoying every episode, it still has the same hold on me thst it had when I watched my first full season, season 17.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 22:26:03 GMT
As long as the show is successful enough for the BBC to want to keep Doctor Who on the TV then it obviously doesn't need to go on hiatus. What a few 'fans' think is irrelevant... Chris Chibnall could never please all of them anyway.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 17, 2021 23:48:10 GMT
Yes it is in dire need of a rest and recharge
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 18, 2021 0:04:53 GMT
If the newest series of Doctor Who is massively divisive again and more people drop the show, should it go on hiatus for awhile? As it currently stands, we keep getting big breaks between series and specials. Each series lately has had massive amounts of dropping of viewers and fans. That's not even counting the controversial Timeless Child bit. What's everyone's thoughts? Should the show take a break to figure itself out again, or is it better to flip a coin and hope it all works out? No disrespect sega, but you've done a few threads like this before, and the reasoning seems a bit, well, thin: when has Who never not been divisive or had 'drops' in ratings? Not even Tom or David could sustain their highs over their entire eras. What does a consensus, for a show as long as this one has run and with a fanbase this big, even mean anymore? If we rebooted the entire series every time someone complained, regardless of showrunner or lead actor, well, what kind of show would that be?
If the BBC spent the higher costs to make the show during the time of Covid, I think that says all that needs saying about if it's seen worth it. Do you want me to share videos of the Liverpool filming where fans, and no shortage of them, came to see Jodie? Or the crowd that gathered outside Gloucester Cathedral when they filmed Fugitive of the Judoon?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 0:21:29 GMT
If the newest series of Doctor Who is massively divisive again and more people drop the show, should it go on hiatus for awhile? As it currently stands, we keep getting big breaks between series and specials. Each series lately has had massive amounts of dropping of viewers and fans. That's not even counting the controversial Timeless Child bit. What's everyone's thoughts? Should the show take a break to figure itself out again, or is it better to flip a coin and hope it all works out? No disrespect sega, but you've done a few threads like this before, and the reasoning seems a bit, well, thin: when has Who never not been divisive or had 'drops' in ratings? Not even Tom or David could sustain their highs over their entire eras. What does a consensus, for a show as long as this one has run and with a fanbase this big, even mean anymore? If we rebooted the entire series every time someone complained, regardless of showrunner or lead actor, well, what kind of show would that be?
If the BBC spent the higher costs to make the show during the time of Covid, I think that says all that needs saying about if it's seen worth it. Do you want me to share videos of the Liverpool filming where fans, and no shortage of them, came to see Jodie? Or the crowd that gathered outside Gloucester Cathedral when they filmed Fugitive of the Judoon?
I'm meaning it in regards to a few factors personally. 1) No one can deny that compared to previous series, the shows viewership has decreased significantly, and viewership depends on people who are already fans as opposed to drawing in a new audience (although us Whovians try all the time with various amounts of success). 2) Anyone into the audios will tell you that we prefer them to the show (due to availability and output at the very least). 3) Whovians have already shown in the past that when the show is taken away, we build up hype all over again. 4) Maybe instead of producing it in the current fashion, maybe they need a new approach. Take a hiatus, make fans want more, than come back. The revival has been on awhile now, longer than most shows last, and it's not easy to maintain momentum on any show, let alone one like this. If we don't have it for awhile, than everything will feel fresh and new again. 5) Personally I think I would be more interested in a special every 6 months, and maybe one with a past Doctor *cough* 8 *cough*. Regardless, I'm a Whovian, and worse cases when I'm mad at the show, I just sink more into expanded media.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 18, 2021 0:21:47 GMT
I think the above commenters have summed it up: people are still enjoying, and as long as the BBC are willing to foot the bill, it's not going anywhere. There are things I like and things I don't about Chibnall's era. There have been highlights and clunkers: in other words, it's an era of Doctor Who.
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There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Apr 18, 2021 1:06:32 GMT
No: the current era still feels like Doctor Who to me, it doesn’t feel tired or lacklustre, nor are the scripts “bAdLy WrItTeN” or amateurish. It’s a different Who to what RTD or Moffat wrote, but still identifiable as the same show, much like the show under Verity Lambert was different to the show under Barry Letts or under JNT.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Apr 18, 2021 9:20:09 GMT
1) No one can deny that compared to previous series, the shows viewership has decreased significantly, and viewership depends on people who are already fans as opposed to drawing in a new audience (although us Whovians try all the time with various amounts of success). True but this cannot be looked at in isolation, how are viewing figures for other popular shows now like Eastenders? Is the fall in viewing figures for Who an isolated occurrence or is it part of a trend in declining viewership of terrestrial tv shows? & what about it's appeal overseas? How many other UK shows have such an international appeal? Although to be honest I don't really care about viewing figures for any show I watch & wonder why some fans of Who seem obsessed with viewing figures? Are they the same about every show they watch? 2) Anyone into the audios will tell you that we prefer them to the show (due to availability and output at the very least). Do we? I for one certainly do not. I enjoy BF but my preferred version of the show will always be on telly, in fact my love of BF has started to wane over the past few months/year. 3) Whovians have already shown in the past that when the show is taken away, we build up hype all over again. The show should be cancelled so we can build hype again? Strange idea, how long should we spend building hype? 16 years again? 4) Maybe instead of producing it in the current fashion, maybe they need a new approach. Take a hiatus, make fans want more, than come back. The revival has been on awhile now, longer than most shows last, and it's not easy to maintain momentum on any show, let alone one like this. If we don't have it for awhile, than everything will feel fresh and new again. I think the show does always try to be fresh & new, but some fans then take issue with this approach & some of the new ideas in terms of casting & plotting, basically because it seems to me they want the show to be just like it was for them when they were kids. I think the show should always be made for a modern young audience, long time fans will watch anyway even if just to slag it off. I do agree that it is not always easy to maintain momentum on a show that has been around for so long, even in its revived format, what other UK genre shows last this long? 5) Personally I think I would be more interested in a special every 6 months, and maybe one with a past Doctor *cough* 8 *cough*. In an earlier post you said "As it currently stands, we keep getting big breaks between series and specials" which I took to be a negative comment but maybe not as now you are advocating less regular seasons, just one offs twice a year? & you also said one of the reasons you like BF is because of its output (I assume you meant frequency of output?). Using a past Doctor in their own special is something I don't feel would be a success for mainstream audiences, fine for BF but I think the show should always focus on the current Doctor. Regardless, I'm a Whovian, and worse cases when I'm mad at the show, I just sink more into expanded media. This it what it comes down to for me when I read of people calling for the show to be cancelled (using the term hiatus is misleading, how can anyone guarantee that once taken off air its return would be inevitable) they don't like current Who (or bizarrely are mad at it) but for some reason feel no one else should! Its of course understandable that not everyone enjoys the show all the time, & as you say you "sink more into expanded media" so then why call for the show to be cancelled? It seems quite a selfish attitude when you can just stop watching & accept that it has a fandom you no longer feel part of whether that be temporary (as it was for me during the 12th Doctor's era) or maybe more permanent (why is there this assumption that we should always enjoy a long running tv show & if we don't the show is at fault?). Just. Stop. Watching.
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Post by Chakoteya on Apr 18, 2021 9:42:45 GMT
Well... I recall the massive upwelling of creativity when the original Star Trek was cancelled. The fans took up the mantle wonderfully. I suppose it helped having people like Harlan Ellison, James Blish, Joe Haldeman, DC Fontana et al involved as a factor in getting novels published too. Then there were all the books after classic Who was finished.
To be honest, I won't miss NuWHo. And I haven't had the chance to see much NuTrek despite all the different shows CBS are putting out on subscription channels.
At the risk of sounding a tad sacreligious here, maybe BF have contributed to the ennui by producing such a proliferation of stories it's impossible for most humans to keep up!
So, if NuWho were to stop it would be interesting to see what the fans came up with to continue it in their lives. Then the BBC or other production companies might get an idea of the direction to take to restart making money out of it.
Assuming in these digital interconnected days there are enough creative fans to make an impact. The 70s with mimeographed fanzines being sold at fan-run conventions are a fond but distant memory, and aggressive licencing has probably put an end to that sort of thing for good anyway. Excuse me while I go and stroke the tribbles that David Gerrold threw at me when I was helping run the soundboard all those years ago...
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Post by muckypup on Apr 18, 2021 9:48:12 GMT
Defiantly should go to specials or franchise out, the bbc can not afford to do a costly show and it shows........
When amazon are spending 350+ million on a TV show and Netflix 100+ million they are falling behind, with the lack of a new series once a year old fans are dropping away and no new ones being picked up. The specials work cause people feel they can just watch like a film.
It’s sad but true, I loved the bbc but they have and continue to make some terrible decisions with regard to output
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 18, 2021 11:20:27 GMT
Defiantly should go to specials or franchise out, the bbc can not afford to do a costly show and it shows........ Which is why they spent the inflated costs to make the show with covid measures instead of waiting or cancelling. You're entitled to dislike or not completely the show mucky, but that's not a point against it that makes much sense.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 18, 2021 11:27:31 GMT
I'm always frustrated when I have to bring this up, because it feels like I'm repeating the obvious, but here's the thing: The BBC isn't Disney. The BBC isn't Warner Bros. The BBC isn't Netflix or Amazon - they can't just throw everything only on Who, and as GOT showed all of us, throwing money is seldom the answer to writing issues.
I get everyone looks at Netflix and sees a genre paradise where Who could live, unfettered and unchained to thinking about 'the kids'. Big Finish with pictures. It's a nice dream, but it's not borne out by reality: aside from the fact that a Netflix Who wouldn't use the BF guys and would, more likely, go to someone like Orci and Kurtzmann, but they are not in the long game business that has defined both versions of Who on TV. Even if they didn't do their usual 'two seasons then out because they'd have to pay more', it's unlikely they'd make it a fraction of the way before deciding to end it in favour of something else to spice up their algorithm and draw new subscribers. In it's own way, it's as much at mercy as we are to the whims of license fee payers.
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