|
Post by eric009 on Apr 23, 2021 17:38:25 GMT
no i think show runner should go when the dr leaves
|
|
|
Post by timegirl on Apr 23, 2021 17:39:17 GMT
Either way, the point stands: the Beeb are the ones keeping the lights on for Chibbs and the team, and whoever else comes after. Let's put that to bed. Given how much talk there's been about changes to the licence fee, increased government (Tory) involvement and a bunch of other hub bub in UK media, there's an argument to be made that quality ('the writing') may not even end up being what decides the future of the show, IF it came to that point. Why would you think a Tory government would impact on modern 'Doctor Who'? That's a genuine question btw, it's not like this is the late 80s where there was some fairly blatant party politicking going on, almost inviting cancellation at times imo.
Answer to the poll: no of course not. Last season was a cracker (apart from I hated the finale but I think I've told the entire universe that by now, collectively and individually! ) Same here, which ever political party is in power, wouldn’t the bbc be afraid that if if they canceled Doctor Who, one of their most beloved flagship tv shows with the biggest international audience, that it would cause the public to turn against them? It would not be a good look for them. I mean I could see people doing a mass boycotting/protest of the bbc if they did such a thing. Think of all the bad press they would get. Surely the bbc would know better than to do something so stupid?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 17:46:27 GMT
no i think show runner should go when the dr leaves I think he will...
|
|
|
Post by fitzoliverj on Apr 23, 2021 17:50:16 GMT
which ever political party is in power, wouldn’t the bbc be afraid that if if they canceled Doctor Who, one of their most beloved flagship tv shows with the biggest international audience, that it would cause the public to turn against them? I don't think that they'd be too worried about legacy fans. It's the international audience that's the focus. (Topical joke. But also true).
|
|
|
Post by timegirl on Apr 23, 2021 18:13:50 GMT
I’m not sure it’s a flagship programme for the BBC any longer, or has been for quite a few years. Something like The Bodyguard, Line Of Duty I’d class as flagship these days. However, that’s just my view. I see your point but Doctor Who is still very popular and beloved both in the uk and internationally with an enormous fandom, the public would be devastated if it got canceled.
|
|
|
Post by timegirl on Apr 23, 2021 18:20:25 GMT
Still, let’s hope it doesn’t happen and all this is hypothetical! Exactly!🤞
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 23, 2021 18:23:55 GMT
Either way, the point stands: the Beeb are the ones keeping the lights on for Chibbs and the team, and whoever else comes after. Let's put that to bed. Given how much talk there's been about changes to the licence fee, increased government (Tory) involvement and a bunch of other hub bub in UK media, there's an argument to be made that quality ('the writing') may not even end up being what decides the future of the show, IF it came to that point. Why would you think a Tory government would impact on modern 'Doctor Who'? That's a genuine question btw, it's not like this is the late 80s where there was some fairly blatant party politicking going on, almost inviting cancellation at times imo. Basically, the Tories haven't exactly been kind to the Beeb in recent years, constantly berating the license fee, saying it's not patriotic, accusing it of being out of touch (which is really ironic, since the people who still watch it the most are older-skewing i.e. more likely to vote Tory. It's the younger, more liberal leaning the audience the BBC have been hemorrhaging for a long time. Like, it's kind of a running gag among British screenwriters how you cannot get the BBC to make something for someone under 30 for love or money) stepping up a lot more Tory-aligned people into senior roles, as well as individuals like Laura Kuessenberg being seen as too close to the party.
The mention was less of a guaranteed element, to be clear. It was just another thing to think about: thus far, they've not waded into the drama side of the BBC (this is more based on Tim Davie's 'impartiality' commitment and what happened with Nish Kumar's show.) Though, as an aside, there was a Tory councillor (or MP, I can't remember right now) who was passing around a campaign leaflet which basically accused Doctor Who of being woke activism. I wish I had it to show because it's a laugh riot what he wrote in there. Like, this man was every Tory caricature, but he was real.
|
|
|
Post by timegirl on Apr 23, 2021 18:38:50 GMT
Why would you think a Tory government would impact on modern 'Doctor Who'? That's a genuine question btw, it's not like this is the late 80s where there was some fairly blatant party politicking going on, almost inviting cancellation at times imo. Basically, the Tories haven't exactly been kind to the Beeb in recent years, constantly berating the license fee, saying it's not patriotic, accusing it of being out of touch (which is really ironic, since the people who still watch it the most are older-skewing i.e. more likely to vote Tory. It's the younger, more liberal leaning the audience the BBC have been hemorrhaging for a long time. Like, it's kind of a running gag among British screenwriters how you cannot get the BBC to make something for someone under 30 for love or money) stepping up a lot more Tory-aligned people into senior roles, as well as individuals like Laura Kuessenberg being seen as too close to the party.
The mention was less of a guaranteed element, to be clear. It was just another thing to think about: thus far, they've not waded into the drama side of the BBC (this is more based on Tim Davie's 'impartiality' commitment and what happened with Nish Kumar's show.) Though, as an aside, there was a Tory councillor (or MP, I can't remember right now) who was passing around a campaign leaflet which basically accused Doctor Who of being woke activism. I wish I had it to show because it's a laugh riot what he wrote in there. Like, this man was every Tory caricature, but he was real.
Hopefully no one will listen to him!🤞
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 18:43:50 GMT
Why would you think a Tory government would impact on modern 'Doctor Who'? That's a genuine question btw, it's not like this is the late 80s where there was some fairly blatant party politicking going on, almost inviting cancellation at times imo.
Answer to the poll: no of course not. Last season was a cracker (apart from I hated the finale but I think I've told the entire universe that by now, collectively and individually! ) Same here, which ever political party is in power, wouldn’t the bbc be afraid that if if they canceled Doctor Who, one of their most beloved flagship tv shows with the biggest international audience, that it would cause the public to turn against them? It would not be a good look for them. I mean I could see people doing a mass boycotting/protest of the bbc if they did such a thing. Think of all the bad press they would get. Surely the bbc would know better than to do something so stupid? There seems to have been arguments - sorry - *discussion* on this since the 18 month rest in the mid 80's. Some claimed it was a ploy by the BBC to get more licence fee money, due to one of the reasons being finite resources. But there were more high profile productions coming and going than a Saturday teatime legacy show at the time. I think the argument in favour of the licence fee is that the BBC is given a fixed budget to go around and therefore has to focus carefully on how it is distributed. A focus on quality and no wastage on dead wood. I remember clearly an interview with Peter Davison around the time, in DWM, where he argued that the licence fee issue should not really apply to Doctor Who as it was a show that effectively paid for itself (even though he judged its popularity in the US as being overhyped and more of a niche fandom). His was an argument also echoed by many loyal actors who had previously worked in the programme, whereby they found it inexplicable that the BBC would consider axing a rare money spinner. I suspect that the main thing that has changed these days is that the show no longer stands and falls by the success of the current series. Merchandising for the present run is a long way off what it was during the David Tennant heyday, whilst the Classic Series is arguably more popular than it has been since, perhaps, the 1970s and leading onto the 20th Anniversary. Indeed, the Government does seem to have a lobby in favour of scrapping the licence fee to encourage the corporation of working within commercial competitive forces, which it is argued would focus them more to making what sells, i.e. what is popular. Opponents of this argument counter that the licence fee model ensures that the output is not necessary populist and caters for all demographics. The commercial terrestrial channels in the UK have lost out a good deal to the proliferation of online and satellite choice, arguably going well downmarket with far less quality but uncommercial commissioning than they have done in the past. Undemanding or repetitive fare that people tune into out of habit. Likewise with the likes of Netflix et al. There is a focus on the demographics and age groups with the funds to pay - so they get an abundance of what they want. The BBC does at least still try to cater for all (perhaps not so well as it used to, such is interference), but I feel that reform would be the more likely change. Comedy and Drama have taken a hit as pressure to compete with commercial channels has arguably let the BBC downmarket in recent years and this in itself could be argued as self defeating any further interference from the Treasury of HMG. Essentially what I am getting at is that many other programmes and formats have taken the bullet in recent years, whilst the likes of Top Gear and Doctor Who were considered valuable for their after sales and repeats, placing them in a different category to shows that did not generate a healthy return.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 18:01:02 GMT
Interesting perspective and topical to the recent discussion. Most people seem to have assumed it was axed because it wasn't funny (apart from Geoff Norcott's slot). Still, it had its fans. For them, here are some of its Greatest Hits
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 24, 2021 18:26:22 GMT
Interesting perspective and topical to the recent discussion. Most people seem to have assumed it was axed because it wasn't funny (apart from Geoff Norcott's slot). Still, it had its fans. For them, here are some of its Greatest Hits
I was going to add this into my prior comment, but might as well put it here: the funny thing with BBC Comedy (at least, according to Eddie Robson and a couple of his peers who work in TV sketch comedy) is that, even if your show is successful, you get your budget cut with each season. Apparently (I don't work in comedy, so this is more of a blindspot for me), it's do with some part of the BBC adopting a 'Quality First' initiative, though really, what it means is 'Maximise output, minimize cost as much as possible' and leads to a lot of irked comedy writers. Likely also explains why the only long runner is Mrs Brown Boys, since it's one guy writing it and it costs peanuts to make.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 19:29:36 GMT
Interesting perspective and topical to the recent discussion. Most people seem to have assumed it was axed because it wasn't funny (apart from Geoff Norcott's slot). Still, it had its fans. For them, here are some of its Greatest Hits
I was going to add this into my prior comment, but might as well put it here: the funny thing with BBC Comedy (at least, according to Eddie Robson and a couple of his peers who work in TV sketch comedy) is that, even if your show is successful, you get your budget cut with each season. Apparently (I don't work in comedy, so this is more of a blindspot for me), it's do with some part of the BBC adopting a 'Quality First' initiative, though really, what it means is 'Maximise output, minimize cost as much as possible' and leads to a lot of irked comedy writers. Likely also explains why the only long runner is Mrs Brown Boys, since it's one guy writing it and it costs peanuts to make. Seems a strange logic, to pare back a programme regardless of its success and something I wasn't aware of regards BBC Comedy (historically I have always seen it as as a sign that a programme is on the wane). On the matter of Mrs Browns Boys, irrespective of its debatable merits, I do recall there was the controversy surrounding their wages ( www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/mrs-browns-boys-stars-used-web-of-offshore-companies-to-avoid-tax www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41886608 ) which suggests there was a fair budget for some cast members. I wonder if this was sustained over time? I learned a while back with some amusement that the reason 'The Young Ones' back in the early 1980's always had a musical interlude was so that it qualified as a 'variety' show and thus gained a larger budget than a mere 'comedy' show. On the matter of Mrs Browns Boys, I must declare that I was mystified at how it managed to garner successful ratings and a long run, whereas Count Arthur Strong got shunted amidst the schedules and then the axe for failing to gain traction with audiences. A solid family sit-com, placed first on BBC2, then BBC after the news at ten and then when promoted to peak time for the third series, was postponed first for the General Election coverage for a few weeks, then back to BBC2 because of Wimbledon. It never had a chance, despite its established run as a cult radio show, a stage act and critical acclaim.
|
|
|
Post by fitzoliverj on Apr 24, 2021 20:05:18 GMT
On the matter of Mrs Browns Boys, I must declare that I was mystified at how it managed to garner successful ratings and a long run, whereas Count Arthur Strong got shunted amidst the schedules and then the axe for failing to gain traction with audiences. I was channel-hopping one day, and came across the episode where Count Arthur Strong teams up with John Shuttleworth. Didn't get a drop of advance publicity.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 20:27:11 GMT
On the matter of Mrs Browns Boys, I must declare that I was mystified at how it managed to garner successful ratings and a long run, whereas Count Arthur Strong got shunted amidst the schedules and then the axe for failing to gain traction with audiences. I was channel-hopping one day, and came across the episode where Count Arthur Strong teams up with John Shuttleworth. Didn't get a drop of advance publicity. Well, that's just it. I only found out after my Father chanced upon it one evening and enjoyed it, getting me to watch with him the second episode (Jack the Ripper Tours in a borrowed Ice Cream Van). Took me a couple of episodes to 'get it' and then it became a case of tracking down the DVD's to catch up as there were never any repeats. It became a firm favourite with the family and one of the funniest we have watched in years (to our tastes of course). I recommended it to a number of people and not one had ever heard of it. Ironically the episode you cite, from series three was a weaker one (to me), as indeed series three seemed to be, as the intended promotion to BBC1 peak time seemed driven by the growing popularity of Rory Kinnear, at the expense of the star, Steve Delaney in terms of screen time and a romantic sub-plot. Having worn out the DVD's it is pleasing that the seven radio series give a purer shot of Arthur Strong at his best (worst), along with the admittedly hard to source stage show DVD's. So its a 'strong' recommend for anyone interested. Big tangent I know, but still semi on topic. I guess the message is, cancellation means cancellation these days and I think 'hiatus' only exists in terms of the varied gaps in production of the series. If it goes, it goes for a long time indeed.
|
|