|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 8, 2021 21:02:02 GMT
War of the Sontarans doesn't have anything to say about war, the clear parallels between British Imperialism and the Sontarans' own war thirst I'm not sure that there's such an obvious parallel, particularly in reference to the Crimean War. Both have this utter, almost fetishistic, fixation with a very arcane and romanticized view of war, all mythic glory and rank obsession and 'never surrender chaps', against the backdrop of a war which, even by usual war standards, didn't really stand for anything save for the pursuit of more glory for the few. Obviously that's not unique to just the Victorians, but given their enduring cultural image is a society of incredibly anal absolutionists with rigid values (not unlike our battle spuds), it felt odd how nothing was done with that. The fact that the story does draw attention to why Seacole does her ministrations, and seems to be the one character who can stand up to the General's 'right chaps' bluster, muddies the waters.
I'm not expecting a grand treatise, but given how more open to putting theme in the main text this era is fond of, it was different.
|
|
|
Post by fitzoliverj on Nov 8, 2021 21:11:01 GMT
the backdrop of a war which, even by usual war standards, didn't really stand for anything save for the pursuit of more glory for the few. Er, what?! Granted, the underlying dispute over the precedence of Catholic and Orthodox control of the Holy Places had been settled outside of the imperial squabble between the French and Russians, but the longstanding ambition of the Russians to seize Constantinople (not necessarily entirely extinct today) and to gain the fabled warm-water port would have lead to a massive geopolitical change with a new and huge military and naval power controlling the western Mediterranean. Even if you want to stress the aggrandising aspects of the war, it's the French and Russian Empires that would stand you comparison to the Sontarans' recurring ostenisble justifiction for constant war (the Rutans, who we almost never get to see).
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 8, 2021 21:23:34 GMT
the backdrop of a war which, even by usual war standards, didn't really stand for anything save for the pursuit of more glory for the few. Er, what?! Granted, the underlying dispute over the precedence of Catholic and Orthodox control of the Holy Places had been settled outside of the imperial squabble between the French and Russians, but the longstanding ambition of the Russians to seize Constantinople (not necessarily entirely extinct today) and to gain the fabled warm-water port would have lead to a massive geopolitical change with a new and huge military and naval power controlling the western Mediterranean. Even if you want to stress the aggrandising aspects of the war, it's the French and Russian Empires that would stand you comparison to the Sontarans' recurring ostenisble justifiction for constant war (the Rutans, who we almost never get to see).
But surely this add to my original point? The lack of thematic mining of the war (I perhaps overstated the British's role here, though in a broader sense, the Empire and the Sontarans do have parrallels. Still, Russians or French might've been a better substitute specifically here) does leave that part of the episode, as great as the spectacle and the Sontarans are, a little hollow when looked at deeper.
My review is positive, I just wanted to comment on something that I felt hadn't hit its full potential.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 21:30:13 GMT
Er, what?! Granted, the underlying dispute over the precedence of Catholic and Orthodox control of the Holy Places had been settled outside of the imperial squabble between the French and Russians, but the longstanding ambition of the Russians to seize Constantinople (not necessarily entirely extinct today) and to gain the fabled warm-water port would have lead to a massive geopolitical change with a new and huge military and naval power controlling the western Mediterranean. Even if you want to stress the aggrandising aspects of the war, it's the French and Russian Empires that would stand you comparison to the Sontarans' recurring ostenisble justifiction for constant war (the Rutans, who we almost never get to see).
But surely this add to my original point? The lack of thematic mining of the war (I perhaps overstated the British's role here, though in a broader sense, the Empire and the Sontarans do have parrallels. Still, Russians or French might've been a better substitute specifically here) does leave that part of the episode, as great as the spectacle and the Sontarans are, a little hollow when looked at deeper.
My review is positive, I just wanted to comment on something that I felt hadn't hit its full potential.
Its as deep as Star Wars or Star Trek...sometimes action and adventure is all i want 😂 call me shallow after a hard days work i just want some entertainment
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 22:38:22 GMT
Chapter Two was an okay episode, but nothing special... it did seem a bit of a mess at times though. Flux might shape up to be something better once we've seen the whole picture, as it is a mini-series ... so I will judge it that way.
Oh, and why did all of the Sontarans have to go to lunch at the same time, has Chibnall not heard of staggered breaks... or are Sontarans just that stupid to all trundle off for a bite to eat at the same time leaving their camp exposed?!!! One highlight of the episode was the semi-serious Sontarans though, but I thought they were defeated way too easily.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Nov 8, 2021 22:47:03 GMT
Well I absolutely loved this! It was dark, gritty, had some fun moments, and the show continues to show stunning visuals. I was surprised by the death toll and that they were showing several quite grisly executions. Not sure I am happy with that. I agree with Causality and others who say that this is a huge step up and this is what the show should have been from series 11 on. I certainly like the darker tone. The costumes and masks also deserve a HUGE praise. These guys look fantastic! Maybe the skull lady is overdoing it a bit on the glitter make-up, but those Sontarans- these are the best Sontarans we have ever seen, and they are portrayed truly horrific and scary. Even Dan Starkey's comic relief character is not played for laughs, and his last scene and the brutality stunned me for a moment.
Karvinista the Samurai Space Dog is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. I have actually already looked for dog fur suits online, because if I had the money, cosplaying as a Samurai Space Dog would make you the star on any convention and you could go full out with overacting and hamming it up.
Dan battling Sontaran's with his battle wok was an awesome idea, too.
I also agree there were a few plot holes, and nobody in their right mind could tell me, believably, that a few barrels of lousy wet black powder could seriously damage space worthy battle barges. That can withstand solar flares and cosmic radiation. I am sorry, but I have to agree on the point that this was male cattle poo.
Other than that, we get a stunningly looking fun ride, with a darker tone, great pacing and fantastic costumes. Just the excessive violence and public executions were a bit borderline.
I hope they keep his up, because this is actually really good.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 8, 2021 22:59:36 GMT
Er, what?! Granted, the underlying dispute over the precedence of Catholic and Orthodox control of the Holy Places had been settled outside of the imperial squabble between the French and Russians, but the longstanding ambition of the Russians to seize Constantinople (not necessarily entirely extinct today) and to gain the fabled warm-water port would have lead to a massive geopolitical change with a new and huge military and naval power controlling the western Mediterranean. Even if you want to stress the aggrandising aspects of the war, it's the French and Russian Empires that would stand you comparison to the Sontarans' recurring ostenisble justifiction for constant war (the Rutans, who we almost never get to see).
But surely this add to my original point? The lack of thematic mining of the war (I perhaps overstated the British's role here, though in a broader sense, the Empire and the Sontarans do have parrallels. Still, Russians or French might've been a better substitute specifically here) does leave that part of the episode, as great as the spectacle and the Sontarans are, a little hollow when looked at deeper.
My review is positive, I just wanted to comment on something that I felt hadn't hit its full potential.
Why does it have to do any thematic mining of the war? Not every story has to have a subtext or commentary.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 9, 2021 0:24:44 GMT
Two episodes in and I will echo the comment up thread that if this, or something like it, had been what the Chibnall era had opened with instead of closing with, well, I suspect we would be looking at CC’s run on the show in a vastly different light. I will also echo David’s hope that this is the Chris Chibnall of Broadchurch series 1 & 3 and not Broadchurch series 2.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Nov 9, 2021 0:30:09 GMT
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 9, 2021 1:17:26 GMT
Two episodes in and I will echo the comment up thread that if this, or something like it, had been what the Chibnall era had opened with instead of closing with, well, I suspect we would be looking at CC’s run on the show in a vastly different light. I will also echo David’s hope that this is the Chris Chibnall of Broadchurch series 1 & 3 and not Broadchurch series 2. Please don't presume that everyone feels the same about Chibnall's era. I know some haven't been huge fans of him until this season but I have really enjoyed all of it.
|
|
|
Post by Max The Autist on Nov 9, 2021 4:12:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by agentten on Nov 9, 2021 4:27:01 GMT
Wow! This week was even better than last week! Every scene is exciting, every moment has something interesting going on. The characters, even the guest stars, feel fully realized and the stakes keep ramping higher. I'm really impressed with Flux so far. If they keep this up, this could be an all time classic in the making.
Also, there is a LOT of money on the screen! Is this the best Who has ever looked? I'm thinking yes.
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on Nov 9, 2021 8:25:46 GMT
Well I absolutely loved this! It was dark, gritty, had some fun moments, and the show continues to show stunning visuals. I was surprised by the death toll and that they were showing several quite grisly executions. Not sure I am happy with that. I agree with Causality and others who say that this is a huge step up and this is what the show should have been from series 11 on. I certainly like the darker tone. The costumes and masks also deserve a HUGE praise. These guys look fantastic! Maybe the skull lady is overdoing it a bit on the glitter make-up, but those Sontarans- these are the best Sontarans we have ever seen, and they are portrayed truly horrific and scary. Even Dan Starkey's comic relief character is not played for laughs, and his last scene and the brutality stunned me for a moment. Karvinista the Samurai Space Dog is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. I have actually already looked for dog fur suits online, because if I had the money, cosplaying as a Samurai Space Dog would make you the star on any convention and you could go full out with overacting and hamming it up. Dan battling Sontaran's with his battle wok was an awesome idea, too. I also agree there were a few plot holes, and nobody in their right mind could tell me, believably, that a few barrels of lousy wet black powder could seriously damage space worthy battle barges. That can withstand solar flares and cosmic radiation. I am sorry, but I have to agree on the point that this was male cattle poo. Other than that, we get a stunningly looking fun ride, with a darker tone, great pacing and fantastic costumes. Just the excessive violence and public executions were a bit borderline. I hope they keep his up, because this is actually really good. May have been a few cans of Nitro-9 thrown in there for good measure, Ace probably left some behind in another adventure.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Nov 9, 2021 9:57:39 GMT
Two episodes in and I will echo the comment up thread that if this, or something like it, had been what the Chibnall era had opened with instead of closing with, well, I suspect we would be looking at CC’s run on the show in a vastly different light. I will also echo David’s hope that this is the Chris Chibnall of Broadchurch series 1 & 3 and not Broadchurch series 2. Please don't presume that everyone feels the same about Chibnall's era. I know some haven't been huge fans of him until this season but I have really enjoyed all of it. Its not, just the opposite in fact, but as usual you provoke its validity cause its not the same opinion as yours. Regards mark687
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 9, 2021 11:03:45 GMT
Please don't presume that everyone feels the same about Chibnall's era. I know some haven't been huge fans of him until this season but I have really enjoyed all of it. Its not, just the opposite in fact, but as usual you provoke its validity cause its not the same opinion as yours. Regards mark687 As usual? I'm simply saying that using the term "we" presupposes a collective single opinion which is not the case. "We" don't all feel the same way about the Chibnall era, there are probably people here that still don't like it.
|
|
|
Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 9, 2021 11:23:42 GMT
Ok.. finally caught up with episode 2.
1st comment from wife "Why couldn't the previous 2 seasons be as gripping and consistent as these last 2 episodes".
The Liverpool accents were really strong in this episode, to our Aussie ears we really had to focus. Flux sounds like "Floox" to us LOLZ - kinda ironic since 1 of my best mates is born and raised in Liverpool, I think his accent has been diluted a bit over the last 40+ years living here.
I love how whatever is happening is changing the Tardis- now we need a merchandise figure of a Tardis with no door!
Sontaran's shown as a non-comedic plot point was a welcome addition.
My oh my has the budget increased!
Solid episode.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Nov 9, 2021 11:24:07 GMT
Its not, just the opposite in fact, but as usual you provoke its validity cause its not the same opinion as yours. Regards mark687 As usual? I'm simply saying that using the term "we" presupposes a collective single opinion which is not the case. "We" don't all feel the same way about the Chibnall era, there are probably people here that still don't like it. "We" in this instance refereed to the individuals that have similar feelings about it and form a "We" just as a "We" is formed by individuals that have an opposite opinion Both types of "We" are valid, Regards mark687
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 9, 2021 11:24:57 GMT
As usual? I'm simply saying that using the term "we" presupposes a collective single opinion which is not the case. "We" don't all feel the same way about the Chibnall era, there are probably people here that still don't like it. "We" in this instance refereed to the individuals that have similar feelings about it and form a "We" just as a "We" is formed by individuals that have an opposite opinion Both types of "We" are valid, Regards mark687 I disagree.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Nov 9, 2021 11:26:33 GMT
"We" in this instance refereed to the individuals that have similar feelings about it and form a "We" just as a "We" is formed by individuals that have an opposite opinion Both types of "We" are valid, Regards mark687 I disagree. Why so the only valid view on it is the view you subscribe to? Regards mark687
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 9, 2021 12:45:14 GMT
Why so the only valid view on it is the view you subscribe to? Regards mark687 Oh dear...Best to leave it here as for whatever reason you don't seem to be getting it & this will drift further off topic.
|
|