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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Nov 16, 2021 7:42:31 GMT
It’s probably the best story as a whole since tHoVD. And I enjoyed War of the Sontarans a good deal - but it should have been it’s own story and not squeezed into a wider storyline (to whit - history is broken is the plotline of the season, stopping the Sontarans and establishing a vague facsimile of history thr goal of the story, no Dan in 2021 Liverpool etc). This one OTOH had to be part of Flux but also holds together as a definitive segment of story told within a 50 minute timeframe. Dodgy CGI Daleks ignored, obviously.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 16, 2021 10:40:55 GMT
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 16, 2021 11:08:28 GMT
It’s probably the best story as a whole since tHoVD. And I enjoyed War of the Sontarans a good deal - but it should have been it’s own story and not squeezed into a wider storyline (to whit - history is broken is the plotline of the season, stopping the Sontarans and establishing a vague facsimile of history thr goal of the story, no Dan in 2021 Liverpool etc). This one OTOH had to be part of Flux but also holds together as a definitive segment of story told within a 50 minute timeframe. Dodgy CGI Daleks ignored, obviously. tHoVD? OTOH?
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Post by mark687 on Nov 16, 2021 13:30:30 GMT
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,669
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 16, 2021 14:24:21 GMT
Just watched it. Managed to get spoiled (Doctor Ruth) on an episode for the first time since Series 8. Not happy about that, but there was so much else going for the story that it didn’t really matter.
That was magnificent. I’ve been trawling through Twitter and it seems that a lot of people found it confusing. Maybe they should be watching it. It was confusing for about five minutes until you started putting all the pieces together. But it was just superb as well: I love it when a show I love takes storytelling risks like this. The story got a lot bigger: the first episode introduced the problem; the second offered some answers but no solutions and this one just opened up a whole new can of worms and did it wonderfully. The confusion as our characters are trying to work out what has happened to them was portrayed really well and their grasping of the situation as they began to understand it was amazing. I just hope that all the balls manage to stay in the air for the second half.
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Post by jacobz40 on Nov 16, 2021 14:39:48 GMT
I got spoiled for Martin's appearance, but still really enjoyed the story. Flux is shaping up to be an excellent and really enjoyable series. Loving the serialized format, loving the huge scope of it, loving the creativity I'm seeing. The straining of the relationship between Yaz and the Doctor is a really interesting dynamic. Dan is starting to feel more fleshed-out to me, but he could still use some more focus. I wonder if he'll stay on past Flux, or even past Whittaker's regeneration.
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Post by bonehead on Nov 16, 2021 16:50:58 GMT
Am of the opinion that we had RTD do we need him back?Just as Much as we do not need Moffat back.....surely there must be someone out there willing to take on the poisoned Chalice...what about Nick Briggs 😂 for one i have resumed weekly watching and that’s a good thing am enjoying the puzzle and am enjoying the longer tale with cliffhangers (which get spoiled by the next week thing lol)Viewing figures i dont worry about ever will i buy this on blu ray-certainly will more money for the beeb...its enjoyable,cinematic and totally different at the moment and glad Chibnall is doing what he wants he may pul it off he may not but hey...am on for the ride i have for the first time enjoyed Jodies more gutsy approach this time. Agree about RTD. Wish we had someone fresh & new as next showrunner. Maybe someone outside of fandom. I am buoyed by the fact that RTD has written several aclaimed and involving series since leaving Doctor Who, proving once again that to me, he knows about writing for television. I know nothing about writing for television, but I do know it isn't wise to try and walk the same tin dog twice. So I am fairly confident that talk of bringing back Rose, Murray Gold (someone I know is convinced David Tennant is returning) etc. won't happen. I don't imagine RTD will be interested in turning the clock back, but creating a new universe of characters. That's why I'm excited (within reason) about his return.
Sorry, this was off-topic.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 16, 2021 17:05:46 GMT
One of the big virtues of Chibnall has been how, for a guy who was written off as a meat and potatoes writer, he's striven to swing big. Topicality in S11, The Timeless Child and now the absolutely bonkers scope and style of Flux. If you told me the guy who wrote 42 would write an episode that's one part VNA, one part Jack Kirby-style wild ancient space mythology, one part totally earnest romance and then a smorgasbord of references, callbacks and surreal sights like 13 as a satsuma-hating cop or playing PS4... I'd have thought you nuts. And therein lies the great strength and critical weakness of Once: it's stuffed. And some of that stuffing is either over or underdone.
If you've complained that the era doesn't have enough stakes, moves too slowly, or doesn't let the characters do enough... this is the story you've been waiting for. An assertive, almost frenzied 13 (this is Jodie at her most overwhelmed and desperate), Yaz and Vinder face personal anxieties and we get to see why Dan and Diane click so well. Bishop and Albine have great chemistry and Diane is the right mix of adorable and spunk (hopefully, she gets to be more than a damsel). Same with Vinder and Bel - nice little reversal there with who's she's seeking, and it hits the right note of deep affection. (I've seen some read into it as allegory to couples split by lockdown and, yeah, that makes sense). Azur Saleem proves a great helmer, balancing all the threads and setpieces (some fun stuff with the Angel especially), and it seems a little more settled compared to Stone's more manic approach.
But through it all, I just felt like we're still not at the halfway point of this story - three weeks in, out of six, and we've learnt astoundingly little about the Flux beyond 'giant death cloud', the Swarm aliens, even really much of the Doctor's own reaction and anxieties about her identity and history. I keep being told this is vital and important... but it seems like it's taking 13 a head-scratching amount of time to get answers. If this were ep3 out of 10, fine, but this is the halfway point - it should feel a lot more dire than it is. There should be some major upset or reveal here, something that skyrockets the stakes, and instead... it's just more of the same. More Division action, without more understanding of them as an organization or the Doctor's role in it beyond 'Fugitive is dark'; more Swarm speechifying without evolving their motivation or goals; more hints and mystery characters dumped on us instead of focusing in on the ones already here, and more tension between Yaz and 13 without it actually leading anywhere meaningful. In fact, I feel like we just had an almost identical exchange in HA, with the same result (and this one doesn't seem to add more on top). Either escalate it so it bursts and we can move onto something deeper and meatier, or do something else. Good as Gil is, I don't buy Yaz would let herself be gaslit this many times and for it not to burst - we've seen this here since S12 and it's hurting their dynamic.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 16, 2021 17:22:00 GMT
As an addendum: I got some flack last time for this, but I stand by this complaint: Flux's thus far refusal of a theme or uniting thesis is starting to really hurt it as a story. WOTS was just big pulpy fun, so I could let that slide more there. But in an episode that clearly wants to add more dimension to the cast and seems to want to say things about them (especially for 13), with no bigger idea or concept to tie it together (beyond some lip service to love and identity, which are too broad to really count), it just ends up being a lot of cool things and moments and not much else. Theme helps guide drama and character arcs, and it doesn't have to be just lazy pontificating. There are many Who stories with defined themes that are also big goofy fun rollercoasters - you can do both and this franchise has many times. It just seems, from where I sit, like Chibs took the criticism of 'too much preachiness' and overcompensated in the other direction.
I say all this as someone who has defended S11 and S12 many times, not as a detractor. To use two counterexamples - Villeneuve's Dune (which is fair - it's half the first book and part of a planned film trilogy, so small piece of big picture) and S1 of Man in the High Castle, another sci-fi serial. By the end of Dune, and by the halfway mark of MIHC, not only had both established theme clearly, but also I had a clearer sense of evolving stakes, why x wanted y and what the characters were going to do to get 'y'.
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Post by bonehead on Nov 16, 2021 18:50:18 GMT
Just finished watching this, and I feel on a high. I wonder if Chris Chibnall was high when he wrote it! It is literallly (hate that word) mind blowing: my mind is in the process of being blown. It's a mixture of Dennis Potter, David Lynch, Alice through the Looking Glass, Steve Parkhouse/John Ridgway comic strips and above all, Chris Chibnall, who has blown away any ideas I previously had about him as a writer. He's alright, I thought: solid, occasionally inspired, flawed, interesting. This third episode of Flux continues to explode those conceptions. Time is truly broken and exploding, sliding and drifting, and we - the audience as well as The Doctor and Co. - are experiencing it happen. The visuals remain incredible, the direction is extaordinary (and I repeat from an earlier post, all this has been achieved during a pandemic, which makes it even more impressive) and the acting is universally wonderful (Jodie's Doctor is consistently excellent this series - don't be horrible to Yaz though!). My one quibble echoes what has been said earlier - the CGI Daleks weren't quite right, but other than that, if this was the 'let's take a moment to reveal a little of what is going on' episode, it has been a rollercoaster. It doesn't just deserve repeated viewings - it demands them. I love this chaos, it is truly unsettling, and at the moment we're in way above our heads. What an enjoyable place to be. The 'Invasion'-style Cybermen, Segun's spacious and wonderful music, the Angel aboard the Tardis. When the theme music crashed in, I said a profanity - agh. I can stand the confusion in my mind. In fact, I bloody love it!
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Nov 16, 2021 20:54:44 GMT
It’s probably the best story as a whole since tHoVD. And I enjoyed War of the Sontarans a good deal - but it should have been it’s own story and not squeezed into a wider storyline (to whit - history is broken is the plotline of the season, stopping the Sontarans and establishing a vague facsimile of history thr goal of the story, no Dan in 2021 Liverpool etc). This one OTOH had to be part of Flux but also holds together as a definitive segment of story told within a 50 minute timeframe. Dodgy CGI Daleks ignored, obviously. tHoVD? OTOH? The Haunting of Villa Diodati. On The Other Hand.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Nov 16, 2021 20:59:38 GMT
It might be interesting to keep history broken for a season or two, then have as a dilemma “do I Fix fix things or just keep repairing over the cracks because of X, Y and Z that’s happened”. You can’t give RTD2 much more of a blank palette then “literally everything is up in the air, do you want a Dalek Gandhi? DO IT. Do you want a Cybermen invasion of Slough fought off by Ghengis Khan and Batman? DO IT”.
in fact, leaving things broken until the 60th could make for an “event” for that story, even allow past Doctors to turn up looking as they do now, their histories changed along with all other history.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,669
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 16, 2021 22:39:33 GMT
As an addendum: I got some flack last time for this, but I stand by this complaint: Flux's thus far refusal of a theme or uniting thesis is starting to really hurt it as a story. WOTS was just big pulpy fun, so I could let that slide more there. But in an episode that clearly wants to add more dimension to the cast and seems to want to say things about them (especially for 13), with no bigger idea or concept to tie it together (beyond some lip service to love and identity, which are too broad to really count), it just ends up being a lot of cool things and moments and not much else. Theme helps guide drama and character arcs, and it doesn't have to be just lazy pontificating. There are many Who stories with defined themes that are also big goofy fun rollercoasters - you can do both and this franchise has many times. It just seems, from where I sit, like Chibs took the criticism of 'too much preachiness' and overcompensated in the other direction. I say all this as someone who has defended S11 and S12 many times, not as a detractor. To use two counterexamples - Villeneuve's Dune (which is fair - it's half the first book and part of a planned film trilogy, so small piece of big picture) and S1 of Man in the High Castle, another sci-fi serial. By the end of Dune, and by the halfway mark of MIHC, not only had both established theme clearly, but also I had a clearer sense of evolving stakes, why x wanted y and what the characters were going to do to get 'y'. I understand your concerns but I really think we shouldn’t be second-guessing the process here. I’m feeling that this might be a Classic Who six-parter format at play here: four parts telling one story, two parts taking a twist in another direction. Think Talons Of Weng-Chiang where we have a classic Holmesian (Conan Doyle not Robert… um…) pastiche which turns into a pulpy Fu Manchu-style story in the last third. Or, despite it not really sticking the landing (although I love it) Invasion Of Time, where we defeat what we think is the menace only for another one to raise its head. We’ll just have to wait and see what Chapter 4 brings us.
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Post by agentten on Nov 17, 2021 4:17:47 GMT
Took me a couple of days to find time to get caught up with this week's episode, but I finally have! I am amazed at how thoroughly they're killing it every week. We're half way through Flux now and each episode has been thrilling, propulsive, and full of heart. I'm pleased that it appears this era will go out on such a high point. A few thoughts:
- The weeping angels are proper scary in this series. I felt like they got a little blunted toward the end of the Moffet era, but the way they're being used in Flux channels the raw thrills and terror from "Blink".
- I don't want Dan to leave at the end of this era. He's rapidly becoming my favorite companion in a good while and I feel like there's a lot more that can be done with him. I really hope RTD keeps him if he's able to.
- The antagonists continue to be unnerving and genuinely intimidating. Their history with the Jo Martin Doctor gives me hope they may find their way to Big Finish when the inevitable Jo Martin adventures arrive.
- Whittaker nailed the desperation to uncover the past that's been hidden from her. I really felt her agony at being denied her knowledge of self.
- The supporting cast, those characters outside of The Doctor, Yaz, and Dan, doesn't feel like a supporting cast anymore. They're becoming so real and so authentic that I'm starting to think of them as part of the fam. Impressive work for only three episodes.
- This is just a theory, but I wonder if Vinder would have originally been Captain Jack before Barrowman's scandal hit. Hence why Vinder's station is named for Rose. Obviously, the part would have been rewritten quite a bit, but I keep wondering if the seed of the character was originally supposed to be Jack.
Roll on next week! There are so many interesting questions still floating in this story. It's making the week long wait for the next episode delightfully agonizing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2021 7:07:32 GMT
Took me a couple of days to find time to get caught up with this week's episode, but I finally have! I am amazed at how thoroughly they're killing it every week. We're half way through Flux now and each episode has been thrilling, propulsive, and full of heart. I'm pleased that it appears this era will go out on such a high point. A few thoughts: - The weeping angels are proper scary in this series. I felt like they got a little blunted toward the end of the Moffet era, but the way they're being used in Flux channels the raw thrills and terror from "Blink". - I don't want Dan to leave at the end of this era. He's rapidly becoming my favorite companion in a good while and I feel like there's a lot more that can be done with him. I really hope RTD keeps him if he's able to. - The antagonists continue to be unnerving and genuinely intimidating. Their history with the Jo Martin Doctor gives me hope they may find their way to Big Finish when the inevitable Jo Martin adventures arrive. - Whittaker nailed the desperation to uncover the past that's been hidden from her. I really felt her agony at being denied her knowledge of self. - The supporting cast, those characters outside of The Doctor, Yaz, and Dan, doesn't feel like a supporting cast anymore. They're becoming so real and so authentic that I'm starting to think of them as part of the fam. Impressive work for only three episodes. - This is just a theory, but I wonder if Vinder would have originally been Captain Jack before Barrowman's scandal hit. Hence why Vinder's station is named for Rose. Obviously, the part would have been rewritten quite a bit, but I keep wondering if the seed of the character was originally supposed to be Jack. Roll on next week! There are so many interesting questions still floating in this story. It's making the week long wait for the next episode delightfully agonizing. I can honestly say you are a mind reader. I cannot think of many posts ever I agree with so much. If I can take your points one by one, by your leave: - Yes. The Angels are scary once more. Moffat got too cute with them in Angels In Manhattan - the Statue Of Liberty is an Angel? Thats a cute joke he had and couldn't resist sticking it in despite it making zero sense. When is someone not looking at one of the most famous landmarks on Earth in "the city that never sleeps"? Add the "cherub Angels" and yeah...lost their luster. - Dan is fantastic. John Bishop, I worried, was just gonna be a stand in for Graham - middle aged personality/entertainer who acts sometimes,. And he isn't like Bradley at all. Dan has an infectious kindness, a warmth and a love for helping others. John is acting, he isn't comic relief. Yeah, he can be funny but he can bloody act. Charisma to spare. Sadly, John is the UK's numero uno stand up revenue wise since Peter Kay semi-retired and John is on tour as we speak and isn't stopping till the summer. I think a year off touring and a short stint on Who is what we were always gonna have, like Catherine Tate or Matt Lucas - they can write their own tickets and wont be tied down too long to one thing. - Jo Martin...well, look at my avatar that I have had since her debut. I adore her. She found a way to project "Doctorness" SO quickly. She makes every scene just a bit classier. I feel a bit bad for Jodie as the plot demands she is manic and frantically wondering what is going on..whereas Jo can play it so cool, so smooth - the way she takes her specs off is even Doctor-y. And Jodie gets an unenviable task of playing ignorant and out of control. I do still wonder why Jo Martins TARDIS is also a police box. If that isn't answered, that would be rather lazy from CC. It would mean he didn't trust the audience to think we can accept The Doctor (in ANY lifetime or regeneration cycle) has a TARDIS not looking like a police box. Did Jo also break the chameleon circuit while in the UK in the mid 20th century. Yeah...clunky when you actually think about it. Still bloody cool though. Jo being a Doctor who (no pun intended) would go too far because she is part of The Division and hasn't had the experiences to make her as compassionate as "our" Doctor. Yeah, BF...you know it makes sense. She can be a canonical version of David Collings Doctor from Full Fathom Five. I would love that. - Ah Jodie. In S11 and a lot of S12 I asked "what is there about this Doctor that is something unique, like every other. The dreaded "generic" word was used more than once. Now we know. She is The Doctor who has to search for her identity, literally. Its almost meta. Jodie was so wonderful in little moments like snapping at Yaz that not everything is a debate - basically "shut up". She is kind, brave, bold and faithful to her friends to a fault. But if they try and get too close to who she fears she may be...she will be so passive agressive its distressing in contrast to her usual self. Jodie plays both so well now. The fun friend...and the secretive kinda bully who tries to have a "fam" but doesn't truly trust them like a family should. Its a lovely character flaw for Jodie to play and in keeping with putting the "who?" back in "Doctor Who". - Absolutely - the recurring characters are fleshed out. We dont know them well but they seem like real people. Its easy to identify with them quickly. It really is the Broadchurch Chibnall in action as that is something he wrote so well on that show. I am now convinced he is a serial writer, not a one-off kinda writer. As for The Ravagers themselves, I think they are pawns of, or at least being used by, Barbara Flynn's character. I know most seem to believe she is Tecteum but I hope not. She had almost deity like powers and to talk of the Ravagers almost as a toy, and also as a poison needed to end this universe makes me think she is from the Universe The Doctor is from, when she was the Timeless Child. Could even be the person who sent the child to this universe - or someone who tried to stop it. - I said at the time when Jacob was announced VERY late and we know Barrowman was supposed to return that he was almost certainly a re-written Jack. Not a stand-in - CC clearly re-wrote much but lets remember Jack too had years of his life where his memories were taken from him. Would only make sense for him to be here for that arc. Vinders planet could have been the Boe Peninsula, Jack could have been monitoring the Flux. Maybe back with the Time Agency. I - and this is not to do with John Barroman being persona non grata - actually am happy for Vinder. I have always liked Jacob and I like the new. Jack coming back for the third time in two series would make the universe seem awfully small. I am absolutely adoring this series
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Post by Tim Bradley on Nov 17, 2021 8:22:37 GMT
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Post by sherlock on Nov 17, 2021 9:55:01 GMT
Took me a couple of days to find time to get caught up with this week's episode, but I finally have! I am amazed at how thoroughly they're killing it every week. We're half way through Flux now and each episode has been thrilling, propulsive, and full of heart. I'm pleased that it appears this era will go out on such a high point. A few thoughts: - The weeping angels are proper scary in this series. I felt like they got a little blunted toward the end of the Moffet era, but the way they're being used in Flux channels the raw thrills and terror from "Blink". - I don't want Dan to leave at the end of this era. He's rapidly becoming my favorite companion in a good while and I feel like there's a lot more that can be done with him. I really hope RTD keeps him if he's able to. - The antagonists continue to be unnerving and genuinely intimidating. Their history with the Jo Martin Doctor gives me hope they may find their way to Big Finish when the inevitable Jo Martin adventures arrive. - Whittaker nailed the desperation to uncover the past that's been hidden from her. I really felt her agony at being denied her knowledge of self. - The supporting cast, those characters outside of The Doctor, Yaz, and Dan, doesn't feel like a supporting cast anymore. They're becoming so real and so authentic that I'm starting to think of them as part of the fam. Impressive work for only three episodes. - This is just a theory, but I wonder if Vinder would have originally been Captain Jack before Barrowman's scandal hit. Hence why Vinder's station is named for Rose. Obviously, the part would have been rewritten quite a bit, but I keep wondering if the seed of the character was originally supposed to be Jack. Roll on next week! There are so many interesting questions still floating in this story. It's making the week long wait for the next episode delightfully agonizing. I believe Jacob Anderson was seen filming as far back as March, so long before the Barrowman scandal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2021 14:13:05 GMT
Took me a couple of days to find time to get caught up with this week's episode, but I finally have! I am amazed at how thoroughly they're killing it every week. We're half way through Flux now and each episode has been thrilling, propulsive, and full of heart. I'm pleased that it appears this era will go out on such a high point. A few thoughts: - The weeping angels are proper scary in this series. I felt like they got a little blunted toward the end of the Moffet era, but the way they're being used in Flux channels the raw thrills and terror from "Blink". - I don't want Dan to leave at the end of this era. He's rapidly becoming my favorite companion in a good while and I feel like there's a lot more that can be done with him. I really hope RTD keeps him if he's able to. - The antagonists continue to be unnerving and genuinely intimidating. Their history with the Jo Martin Doctor gives me hope they may find their way to Big Finish when the inevitable Jo Martin adventures arrive. - Whittaker nailed the desperation to uncover the past that's been hidden from her. I really felt her agony at being denied her knowledge of self. - The supporting cast, those characters outside of The Doctor, Yaz, and Dan, doesn't feel like a supporting cast anymore. They're becoming so real and so authentic that I'm starting to think of them as part of the fam. Impressive work for only three episodes. - This is just a theory, but I wonder if Vinder would have originally been Captain Jack before Barrowman's scandal hit. Hence why Vinder's station is named for Rose. Obviously, the part would have been rewritten quite a bit, but I keep wondering if the seed of the character was originally supposed to be Jack. Roll on next week! There are so many interesting questions still floating in this story. It's making the week long wait for the next episode delightfully agonizing. I believe Jacob Anderson was seen filming as far back as March, so long before the Barrowman scandal. Absolutely, but then he came back for a much longer stint filming and thats when Jacob was announced as a recurring star, independent of any other casting news, and not long after Barrowmans future prospects became bleaker. Which has led to a pretty widespread belief - and its all guesswork but the truth always comes out at cons in years ahead - that he was a one-off star who was promoted to recurring star. Maybe they dropped him off "home" and that was it. No lover out there plot etc. We can only speculate, which is fine. We always know eventually.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 17, 2021 15:35:17 GMT
I believe Jacob Anderson was seen filming as far back as March, so long before the Barrowman scandal. Absolutely, but then he came back for a much longer stint filming and thats when Jacob was announced as a recurring star, independent of any other casting news, and not long after Barrowmans future prospects became bleaker. Which has led to a pretty widespread belief - and its all guesswork but the truth always comes out at cons in years ahead - that he was a one-off star who was promoted to recurring star. Maybe they dropped him off "home" and that was it. No lover out there plot etc. We can only speculate, which is fine. We always know eventually. Yes I think the rumour of Bare-All-Man's involvement was due to his character appearing in a crossover comic?
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Post by agentten on Nov 17, 2021 18:57:30 GMT
Took me a couple of days to find time to get caught up with this week's episode, but I finally have! I am amazed at how thoroughly they're killing it every week. We're half way through Flux now and each episode has been thrilling, propulsive, and full of heart. I'm pleased that it appears this era will go out on such a high point. A few thoughts: - The weeping angels are proper scary in this series. I felt like they got a little blunted toward the end of the Moffet era, but the way they're being used in Flux channels the raw thrills and terror from "Blink". - I don't want Dan to leave at the end of this era. He's rapidly becoming my favorite companion in a good while and I feel like there's a lot more that can be done with him. I really hope RTD keeps him if he's able to. - The antagonists continue to be unnerving and genuinely intimidating. Their history with the Jo Martin Doctor gives me hope they may find their way to Big Finish when the inevitable Jo Martin adventures arrive. - Whittaker nailed the desperation to uncover the past that's been hidden from her. I really felt her agony at being denied her knowledge of self. - The supporting cast, those characters outside of The Doctor, Yaz, and Dan, doesn't feel like a supporting cast anymore. They're becoming so real and so authentic that I'm starting to think of them as part of the fam. Impressive work for only three episodes. - This is just a theory, but I wonder if Vinder would have originally been Captain Jack before Barrowman's scandal hit. Hence why Vinder's station is named for Rose. Obviously, the part would have been rewritten quite a bit, but I keep wondering if the seed of the character was originally supposed to be Jack. Roll on next week! There are so many interesting questions still floating in this story. It's making the week long wait for the next episode delightfully agonizing. I can honestly say you are a mind reader. I cannot think of many posts ever I agree with so much. If I can take your points one by one, by your leave: - Yes. The Angels are scary once more. Moffat got too cute with them in Angels In Manhattan - the Statue Of Liberty is an Angel? Thats a cute joke he had and couldn't resist sticking it in despite it making zero sense. When is someone not looking at one of the most famous landmarks on Earth in "the city that never sleeps"? Add the "cherub Angels" and yeah...lost their luster. - Dan is fantastic. John Bishop, I worried, was just gonna be a stand in for Graham - middle aged personality/entertainer who acts sometimes,. And he isn't like Bradley at all. Dan has an infectious kindness, a warmth and a love for helping others. John is acting, he isn't comic relief. Yeah, he can be funny but he can bloody act. Charisma to spare. Sadly, John is the UK's numero uno stand up revenue wise since Peter Kay semi-retired and John is on tour as we speak and isn't stopping till the summer. I think a year off touring and a short stint on Who is what we were always gonna have, like Catherine Tate or Matt Lucas - they can write their own tickets and wont be tied down too long to one thing. - Jo Martin...well, look at my avatar that I have had since her debut. I adore her. She found a way to project "Doctorness" SO quickly. She makes every scene just a bit classier. I feel a bit bad for Jodie as the plot demands she is manic and frantically wondering what is going on..whereas Jo can play it so cool, so smooth - the way she takes her specs off is even Doctor-y. And Jodie gets an unenviable task of playing ignorant and out of control. I do still wonder why Jo Martins TARDIS is also a police box. If that isn't answered, that would be rather lazy from CC. It would mean he didn't trust the audience to think we can accept The Doctor (in ANY lifetime or regeneration cycle) has a TARDIS not looking like a police box. Did Jo also break the chameleon circuit while in the UK in the mid 20th century. Yeah...clunky when you actually think about it. Still bloody cool though. Jo being a Doctor who (no pun intended) would go too far because she is part of The Division and hasn't had the experiences to make her as compassionate as "our" Doctor. Yeah, BF...you know it makes sense. She can be a canonical version of David Collings Doctor from Full Fathom Five. I would love that. - Ah Jodie. In S11 and a lot of S12 I asked "what is there about this Doctor that is something unique, like every other. The dreaded "generic" word was used more than once. Now we know. She is The Doctor who has to search for her identity, literally. Its almost meta. Jodie was so wonderful in little moments like snapping at Yaz that not everything is a debate - basically "shut up". She is kind, brave, bold and faithful to her friends to a fault. But if they try and get too close to who she fears she may be...she will be so passive agressive its distressing in contrast to her usual self. Jodie plays both so well now. The fun friend...and the secretive kinda bully who tries to have a "fam" but doesn't truly trust them like a family should. Its a lovely character flaw for Jodie to play and in keeping with putting the "who?" back in "Doctor Who". - Absolutely - the recurring characters are fleshed out. We dont know them well but they seem like real people. Its easy to identify with them quickly. It really is the Broadchurch Chibnall in action as that is something he wrote so well on that show. I am now convinced he is a serial writer, not a one-off kinda writer. As for The Ravagers themselves, I think they are pawns of, or at least being used by, Barbara Flynn's character. I know most seem to believe she is Tecteum but I hope not. She had almost deity like powers and to talk of the Ravagers almost as a toy, and also as a poison needed to end this universe makes me think she is from the Universe The Doctor is from, when she was the Timeless Child. Could even be the person who sent the child to this universe - or someone who tried to stop it. - I said at the time when Jacob was announced VERY late and we know Barrowman was supposed to return that he was almost certainly a re-written Jack. Not a stand-in - CC clearly re-wrote much but lets remember Jack too had years of his life where his memories were taken from him. Would only make sense for him to be here for that arc. Vinders planet could have been the Boe Peninsula, Jack could have been monitoring the Flux. Maybe back with the Time Agency. I - and this is not to do with John Barroman being persona non grata - actually am happy for Vinder. I have always liked Jacob and I like the new. Jack coming back for the third time in two series would make the universe seem awfully small. I am absolutely adoring this series
100% agree with your commentary. I'd follow up on your point about Whittaker's Doctor manifesting an interesting flaw and just add that I think this is the component that was missing in series 11 and 12. Whittaker's Doctor was too likable, if that makes sense. She was inoffensive and we were seldom reminded of her alienness. I've written over the last three years on this forum that I enjoy her Doctor, but that flaw, which we've seen coming on more and more as Flux progresses, seems to pull the character together. I think it's important that the Doctor not be too likeable in some cases. Even the most audience friendly Doctors like Tennant have had interesting flaws such as Ten's arrogance. To me, it's a bit like the flaw in a beautiful painting. It somehow makes the painting more interesting than if it were perfect.
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