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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Dec 9, 2022 21:49:58 GMT
And what year was that all with Albie and Bailey? 1963. Again, I don't think Roy Gill did that by accident. This was happening while Verity, Hartnell, Russ, Peter, Carol Ann, etc etc were in Doctor Who. That's how recent we are talking. It was not till between Seasons 4 and 5 of DW that homosexuality was finally decriminalised in England and Wales. In Scotland, not till late era Tom and Northern Ireland not till Davison's era. That's how recent we are talking. This ^ wow.. In terms of life expectancy this is very recent.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 9, 2022 23:08:19 GMT
And what year was that all with Albie and Bailey? 1963. Again, I don't think Roy Gill did that by accident. This was happening while Verity, Hartnell, Russ, Peter, Carol Ann, etc etc were in Doctor Who. That's how recent we are talking. It was not till between Seasons 4 and 5 of DW that homosexuality was finally decriminalised in England and Wales. In Scotland, not till late era Tom and Northern Ireland not till Davison's era. That's how recent we are talking. This ^ wow.. In terms of life expectancy this is very recent.
Well, it is something that is very much still alive and kicking- and happening in many countries right now. Look no further than Russia for example (but that goon in charge just needs fresh young blood for his armies, so gay people are just not part of his agenda, I assume).
It boggles the mind what kind of BS can be stylized as a crime (and yes, it was a criminal offense in Germany until 1969; during Nazi times, of course, TOUCHING alone, not even sex, of a loved same-sex person meant concentration camp and/ or forced castration).
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Dec 9, 2022 23:45:16 GMT
This ^ wow.. In terms of life expectancy this is very recent.
Well, it is something that is very much still alive and kicking- and happening in many countries right now. Look no further than Russia for example (but that goon in charge just needs fresh young blood for his armies, so gay people are just not part of his agenda, I assume).
It boggles the mind what kind of BS can be stylized as a crime (and yes, it was a criminal offense in Germany until 1969; during Nazi times, of course, TOUCHING alone, not even sex, of a loved same-sex person meant concentration camp and/ or forced castration).
Our home state was 1 of the 1st in Oz to fully embrace the LGBT etc equally valid lifestyle. We had a famous Premier (head politician in our state) in the 70's/80's who implemented that in place and it has thankfully stuck.
Love is love is love. Simple as that.
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Post by sidestep on Dec 10, 2022 0:23:44 GMT
I thought Here Lies Drax was quite tedious, to be honest. It’s quite literally just a retread of The Trouble with Drax and I’m siding with the Doctor at the end questioning what the point of it all was. I had an inkling that the six random items at the beginning formed a key, a la the Key to Time and it was just a case of waiting for it to all unfold, which ultimately just ended up being a rehash. It’s not a story without merit, though. I loved the Doctor, Liv & Helen’s interaction throughout the first act until they’re split up. They’re a TARDIS team that I’m not convinced needed to continue beyond Ravenous, let alone Stranded, but they can still really shine. If it is indeed a retread (I wouldn’t know. It’s my first ever Drax story experience. Everything was a surprise), could it possibly be a case of Big Finish wanting to revisit/redo this story with a slight twist? They’ve done it in the past with several other stories. The Trouble with Drax was a 4th Doctor single release story (in 2016) but part of Series 5 & oop on cd. Here Lies Drax is 8’s story with Nicola Walker in this newly released cd boxset. Even if 4 & 8 fanbases (& casual or new listeners who would take a chance on this boxset because of Nicola Walker) overlap to a degree in a Venn diagram, some don’t. Some fans might only collect 4 & not 8, or vice versa. Or wish to buy but haven’t yet for various reasons. (Even with this rare Liv sale there are many fans who couldn’t buy). I don’t have The Trouble with Drax yet despite being a 4th Doctor fan & completist because I’m waiting for the bundle download sale (which might be years away). Similarly, haven’t watched The Armageddon Factor & the entire Season 16 Key to Time storyline because I’m waiting for the Collection boxset (might be years away also). Imho, not professing to mindread BF’s motives, it’s either too good of a story concept not to redo or they genuinely thought it was an entirely new exciting story for 8 & this Tardis team? Hence it was greenlit? Now I would definitely be interested in more stories of Drax meeting other Doctors & their teams. Like 6. Or 5. Or any. Would be fun. 😊
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 10, 2022 0:28:05 GMT
I thought Here Lies Drax was quite tedious, to be honest. It’s quite literally just a retread of The Trouble with Drax and I’m siding with the Doctor at the end questioning what the point of it all was. I had an inkling that the six random items at the beginning formed a key, a la the Key to Time and it was just a case of waiting for it to all unfold, which ultimately just ended up being a rehash. It’s not a story without merit, though. I loved the Doctor, Liv & Helen’s interaction throughout the first act until they’re split up. They’re a TARDIS team that I’m not convinced needed to continue beyond Ravenous, let alone Stranded, but they can still really shine. If it is indeed a retread (I wouldn’t know. It’s my first ever Drax story experience. Everything was a surprise), could it possibly be a case of Big Finish wanting to revisit/redo this story with a slight twist? They’ve done it in the past with several other stories. The Trouble with Drax was a 4th Doctor single release story (in 2016) but part of Series 5 & oop on cd. Here Lies Drax is 8’s story with Nicola Walker in this newly released cd boxset. Even if 4 & 8 fanbases (& casual or new listeners who would take a chance on this boxset because of Nicola Walker) overlap to a degree in a Venn diagram, some don’t. Some fans might only collect 4 & not 8, or vice versa. Or wish to buy but haven’t yet for various reasons. (Even with this rare Liv sale there are many fans who couldn’t buy). I don’t have The Trouble with Drax yet despite being a 4th Doctor fan & completist because I’m waiting for the bundle download sale (which might be years away). Similarly, haven’t watched The Armageddon Factor & the entire Season 16 Key to Time storyline because I’m waiting for the Collection boxset (might be years away also). Imho, not professing to mindread BF’s motives, it’s either too good of a story concept not to redo or they genuinely thought it was an entirely new exciting story for 8 & this Tardis team? Hence it was greenlit? Now I would definitely be interested in more stories of Drax meeting other Doctors & their teams. Like 6. Or 5. Or any. Would be fun. 😊 I have only listened to the 4th Doctor story once and had completely forgotten all about it. But I vaguely remember Drax doing exactly the same thing there- pulling a number with all his regenerations in tow, playing different roles. He is a bit like a antithesis to the Eleven- many incarnations working together in different bodies and not homicidal, just annoying. Pitting him against the Eleven would actually be quite fun, come to think about it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2022 2:40:06 GMT
Well, I'm more surprised anyone could forget Trouble With Drax, that was a classic! I think if you just space the appearances out, it works better automatically rather than burn through incarnations (and potential future casting) for the sake of a re-do. And it's not JUST a re-do, it does work perfectly well but is clearly designed to almost parody the previous story. Drax is a con-man, a grifter. I think for him you could do SO many stories almost as a reverse take on 70s Who using gothic horror classics like Frankenstein and turning them into Who eps. Do that with capers. Imagine an Italian Job Doctor Who? The Sting Doctor Who? Basically...space Ocean's 11...but all 11 can be the same Timelord!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2022 3:09:58 GMT
With The Robots and these stories that all take place during the end 10minutes of Stranded 4 from Tania's POV if not Liv's, there are two ongoing series both essentially exploring "The Further Adventures Of Liv". I get why that seems like WAY too much for some. But this team are better in this box than in most of Doom Coalition or Ravenous. Why? The stories are better. Paul is also the actor who has come closest to chucking BF so if he remains happy..que sera sera.. But I would love to see anyone in UK entertainment tell Nicola Walker "we've done enough with you, cheers love - be in touch if we need you". She's a bigger star than any BF regular outside Tennant or Jacobi if we count them. She can walk into a BBC or ITV Primetime drama any time she fancies. As recently as this summer she was billed above Sean Bean in Stefan Golaszewski's show Marriage on BBC1 If Nicola Walker wants to work..and your motto is "For The Love Of Stories.." - you better have some stories handy. She can do them all, she's a star and moreover a terrific actor. Well, I kind of see the point that Liv is now straying into the "Leela" and "Ace" territory. I myself am a bit over Leela, to be honest.
However, I totally agree with you here.
I can absolutely see why people feel burnt out on announcement but at the same time..as I said earlier a LOT of Doom Coalition and Ravenous, early Helen and relatively early Liv was average at best. I can't say I'm burnt out when this box set ends with one of the only DW stories in any medium to reduce me to a blubbering wreck. It's the story that matters. Ditto with Ace. Well, Sylv and Sophie are so close..it's gonna happen. And the most recent TV ep just solidified their closeness for a whole new generation. The Seventh Doctor and Ace? Maybe it's the fact Sylv was the most recent Doctor as I became a fan but they've always felt like they were a "team" more than most TARDIS teams. Leela? Well, the next time Lou Jameson delivers even a line badly will be the first time. I remember Barbarba Broccoli being asked why Judi Dench was kept on as M when James Bond was being rebooted to his first mission as 007 when in earlier movies an older Bond was there when SHE was new as head of the service. Her answer "It's Judi Dench. We would always be chasing an actor anywhere near as good as that". I feel the same about Lou. I think she is REMARKABLE (there's a reason her TV career went on for decades as an actor unlike almost every other companion) and if you have a story that needs a companion rather than a specific one? She's perfect. Also showed in Gallifrey how she can be "the savage" AND fit in to Timelord society. A lesser actor would be a fish out of water. speaking of Gallifrey, when Romana II finally started appearing in Tom stories the excitement lasted 10 mins before "Lalla sounds like Gallifrey era..she can't recreate the TV era" posts all over. They can't win! Even if "Shoot them both against white..we can try and make it look like they recorded together" probably deserved a smacked arse for BF! Besides, we know there was tentative talk about Lis Sladen and Mary Tamm was on board before their respective untimely deaths. With Lalla not interested (then) in appearing with Tom's Doctor and Matthew Waterhouse not yet on board and poor Ian Marter long dead..Leela appeared in a LOT more than if Tom said "Yes please" in 2000 not 2010. Tom was still reticent at the start and getting to finally mend the relationship with Lou is something they've both spoken about many times. With BF more open to recasts and Tom open to new companions, we have seen changes there. And Sylv barely does enough to burn anyone out these days. Something Nick said years back on the podcast stands out, it was someone making a complaint that I think Turlough was underused. He made the rather obvious point about the georgraphy issues there but on a broader "why can't we have more..and less.....or just create a new companion.", Nick said essentially we have to remember that BF is not big pay. These actors make more doing conventions that are often easier to get to and he felt lucky almost all who could come back, have done. But that we're also talking about older people and it's not really the done thing to badger pensioners into working more! And that older companions with history sold better to non-MR subbers than when they had taken a chance on the odd newer ones. As much as a person asks for change, people often want more of the same. A balancing act only trickier I'm sure now with recasts, aging actors, no MR, boxsets having to have a "selling point" for a headline leading to a lot of crossover and gimmicky meetups. I don't envy BF.
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Post by Kestrel on Dec 10, 2022 5:57:11 GMT
The fact there is more Liv stories than Lucie is a crime in itself Very much a matter of opinion.... I never warmed up to Lucie. Liv is my spirit animal.
At the risk of repeating myself, I find myself in exactly the same situation. Though I will say I think Helen deserves a bit more time in the limelight than either Lucie or Liv. She's really been under-used.
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 10, 2022 7:32:00 GMT
I thought Here Lies Drax was quite tedious, to be honest. It’s quite literally just a retread of The Trouble with Drax and I’m siding with the Doctor at the end questioning what the point of it all was. I had an inkling that the six random items at the beginning formed a key, a la the Key to Time and it was just a case of waiting for it to all unfold, which ultimately just ended up being a rehash. It’s not a story without merit, though. I loved the Doctor, Liv & Helen’s interaction throughout the first act until they’re split up. They’re a TARDIS team that I’m not convinced needed to continue beyond Ravenous, let alone Stranded, but they can still really shine. If it is indeed a retread (I wouldn’t know. It’s my first ever Drax story experience. Everything was a surprise), could it possibly be a case of Big Finish wanting to revisit/redo this story with a slight twist? They’ve done it in the past with several other stories. The Trouble with Drax was a 4th Doctor single release story (in 2016) but part of Series 5 & oop on cd. Here Lies Drax is 8’s story with Nicola Walker in this newly released cd boxset. Even if 4 & 8 fanbases (& casual or new listeners who would take a chance on this boxset because of Nicola Walker) overlap to a degree in a Venn diagram, some don’t. Some fans might only collect 4 & not 8, or vice versa. Or wish to buy but haven’t yet for various reasons. (Even with this rare Liv sale there are many fans who couldn’t buy). I don’t have The Trouble with Drax yet despite being a 4th Doctor fan & completist because I’m waiting for the bundle download sale (which might be years away). Similarly, haven’t watched The Armageddon Factor & the entire Season 16 Key to Time storyline because I’m waiting for the Collection boxset (might be years away also). Imho, not professing to mindread BF’s motives, it’s either too good of a story concept not to redo or they genuinely thought it was an entirely new exciting story for 8 & this Tardis team? Hence it was greenlit? Now I would definitely be interested in more stories of Drax meeting other Doctors & their teams. Like 6. Or 5. Or any. Would be fun. 😊 I haven’t got a clue what their thought process was about it. I just know as a listener I didn’t have a great experience with Here Lies Drax because I’d heard it all before in The Trouble with Drax, which was just better done in general. Overlap of customers, releases being out of print (you can still by it on download), etc. shouldn’t come into it. If anything, you enjoy one story and you’re inclined to buy the other; it’s all the more disappointing when they’re extremely similar. Stick Drax in another con type of scenario that’s better suited for McGann’s Doctor and I think it’d be fine.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 10, 2022 12:09:26 GMT
I think if you look at the 6 episodes (5 stories) we've got with this mini series Big Finish have set out to balance the type of tales on offer.
Paradox of the Daleks and Here Lies Drax offer returning classic elements. Both light romps.
The Dalby Spook and Love Vampires are original tales.
Albie's Angels, although the Angels are a returning monster, this is a intimate character piece.
With The Dalby Spook, Love Vampires and Albie's Angels it feels like real thought has gone in to developing Helen's character. To me all the calls for a new companion are mute when you have a fantastic actress playing a 1960s woman with plenty of relevant and touching themes that are far more interesting than say another modern era companion.
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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 10, 2022 15:59:13 GMT
Just finished Albie's Angels, oh my this is a special one. It's moved me so much, really bringing home some personal feelings. My wonderful little sister came out when she was a teenager, she really struggled before telling the family, she was so afraid and confused, she confided in me first and I was so scared she might take her own life, her mental anguish was so strong. I supported her to tell our parents and the girl she had fallen in love with, there was never any doubt that my sister is loved and we're proud of who she is. My sister and her girlfriend are part of the family, in those tough early days she was terrified of rejection, from her family, friends, other teenagers and society.
This story means so much because of how badly people were treated then and continue to be treated in lesser educated parts of society, and yes although much improved I'm still included the UK in this bunch.
I love my sister, no question of exceptance, she is a wonderful person and we celebrate everything she stands for. No one should ever feel the way she did, coming out should be a celebration of discovering who you are, there should be no fear, no judgement, no prejudice, just love, always love and kindness.
Sorry to spill my heart out on this one, just had to put my feelings into words. xx
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 11, 2022 0:10:42 GMT
I have to agree to the consensus here- Albie's Angels is an absolute wonderful story about love, family, loss and hope. It is also a great call back to the late Trevor Baxter, as I adore Jago and Litefoot, this was a great touch. This story will make you cry, but it will also warm your heart. The writing is clever (showing us all the paradoxes and the different timelines), Helen is front and centre for a wonderful deep character piece and even the Angels show a new side. All of this wrapped up in a historical story, presenting us with the horrific laws against same-sex love that sadly are all too present in some countries. This is as perfect as it gets.
Even if some people are holding back because they dislike Liv or do not want to hear Liv anymore- you are seriously missing out on something wonderful. Especially since this story is not about Liv- although she gets some nice banter with the Doctor. This story comes wholeheartedly recommended from me.
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 14, 2022 16:07:18 GMT
I thought The Love Vampires was terrific. Great base under siege that expertly blends the gothic horror and the science fiction together. Our TARDIS team is firing on all cylinders and there's none of that sidelining Helen, relentlessly sarcastic Liv or moping Eight that plagued the previous couple of box set sagas. Just bloody good stuff.
And Albie's Angels? What else can I add that nobody else has said? Utterly sublime and I shed a couple of tears at the end. A long awaited platform for Helen and a showcase for Hattie Morahan, who shines throughout. I loved the use of the Weeping Angels; they never dominate and yet serve the story perfectly and add to the lore without detriment. I loved every single scene between Helen & Albie and I loved that the Doctor & Liv just crack on without any of the meaningless friction that's overwhelmed recent releases. The last few minutes, with Song for Helen, the reveal about Litefoot, etc. were all perfectly pitched. Like the Weeping Angel usage, it wasn't forced, it was just perfectly done. I agree that I'd have closed on Song for Helen too, instead it's just added onto the music suite after the credits; it would've hit that little bit harder.
Like the previous set, the opening story hampers, but the remaining stories do go to show that there's still life in Eight, Liv & Helen yet. I still do wonder "what if?" and lament wasted opportunities for stories like this in Ravenous & Stranded instead of what we got, but if the further adventures continue to be of this overall quality, then I'm happy to stick with them for a little while longer.
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Post by elkawho on Dec 15, 2022 3:43:51 GMT
Fabulous set. I loved all the stories, but yeah, Albie's Angles is the star.
I have really missed stand alone Eighth Doctor stories, and I've been thrilled with the last 2 sets. And I will happily listen to stories with Liv Chenka for as long as Nicola Walker and Big Finish want to make them.
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Post by Chakoteya on Dec 15, 2022 10:02:09 GMT
What, no poll?
Enjoyed this set a lot.
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Post by Who Review on Dec 15, 2022 13:34:59 GMT
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 19, 2022 1:28:26 GMT
Well, I'm more surprised anyone could forget Trouble With Drax, that was a classic! I think if you just space the appearances out, it works better automatically rather than burn through incarnations (and potential future casting) for the sake of a re-do. And it's not JUST a re-do, it does work perfectly well but is clearly designed to almost parody the previous story. Drax is a con-man, a grifter. I think for him you could do SO many stories almost as a reverse take on 70s Who using gothic horror classics like Frankenstein and turning them into Who eps. Do that with capers. Imagine an Italian Job Doctor Who? The Sting Doctor Who? Basically...space Ocean's 11...but all 11 can be the same Timelord! There's only one Timelord & that's me
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 19, 2022 1:35:59 GMT
A fantastic set of stories, the third story hit me hard because it reminded me of the prejudice my cousin endured being gay & how badly his stepdad treated him that he then pretended to have a girlfriend but sadly it all ended that he committed suicide as he thought his family would be better off without him.
Breaks my heart to this day as last conversation I had we argued as I told him stop being fake accept your gay & stuff the family & there prejudices, I should have been more supportive & tactful but as someone who had prejudice over having mental illness I tried to instill in him people will either have accept this is who you are or if they can't then they can f..K off.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 19, 2022 5:45:37 GMT
Here lies Drax- This was a fun run around. I think I was lucky that I had completely forgotten about the 4th Doctor audio and the MO that Drax uses (despite it being called out at the start). So the whole plot came as a surprise and worked for me. But it was not only the big stuff that made this a fun audio, it was also the little scenes, like Liv and Helen explaining junk mail to the Doctor. A scene that is not wasted, since it ties in to the resolution. Very well done! Performances were great throughout. All in all a wonderful start! Also, I admit I had to look up who this apparently famous (in the UK, I assume) Shane Ritchie guy was. And before you all come at me again- I am German. In Germany, every fart is dubbed. Comedy often does not work when dubbed. This is why Monty Python and Blackadder in German dub are so utterly pointless. Even the Terry Pratchett book translation is not working for me. So no, I do not know many modern UK comedians (only a few I had to watch while I was in NZ) and I do know NONE of the soap stars, since a) I do not watch soaps as a rule and b) UK soaps do not happen on German TV and c) if they did, I do NOT own a TV. Counter question to the people complaining about my lack of "cultural knowledge"- how many GERMAN comedians and soap stars to YOU know? I think you get the point. Now I k ow you’re taking the Mickey - Germany doesn’t HAVE any comedians.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 19, 2022 8:45:53 GMT
Here lies Drax- This was a fun run around. I think I was lucky that I had completely forgotten about the 4th Doctor audio and the MO that Drax uses (despite it being called out at the start). So the whole plot came as a surprise and worked for me. But it was not only the big stuff that made this a fun audio, it was also the little scenes, like Liv and Helen explaining junk mail to the Doctor. A scene that is not wasted, since it ties in to the resolution. Very well done! Performances were great throughout. All in all a wonderful start! Also, I admit I had to look up who this apparently famous (in the UK, I assume) Shane Ritchie guy was. And before you all come at me again- I am German. In Germany, every fart is dubbed. Comedy often does not work when dubbed. This is why Monty Python and Blackadder in German dub are so utterly pointless. Even the Terry Pratchett book translation is not working for me. So no, I do not know many modern UK comedians (only a few I had to watch while I was in NZ) and I do know NONE of the soap stars, since a) I do not watch soaps as a rule and b) UK soaps do not happen on German TV and c) if they did, I do NOT own a TV. Counter question to the people complaining about my lack of "cultural knowledge"- how many GERMAN comedians and soap stars to YOU know? I think you get the point. Now I k ow you’re taking the Mickey - Germany doesn’t HAVE any comedians. My dad says the same thing about England....
In all honesty, my dad goes and sees shows of people (who call themselves "comedians") who would not make me laugh if they flooded the audience with laughing gas.
All a matter of perspective. An acquired taste. I had to learn English sense of humor first. Ours is very direct. We often do not get yours.
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