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Post by martinw8686 on May 13, 2024 8:03:29 GMT
I really enjoyed The Devil's Chord. Jinx was an over the top delight. Ncuti has fast become the Doctor, with Millie an intriguing companion.
I tend to prefer darker interpretations of The Doctor but Ncuti is striking a lovely balance of kindness, inclusion, ecentricity and sadness. It's quite right that the show has allowed the Doctor to move beyond the brooding of their part in the Time war but a being as old of the Doctor still needs to exhibit the loneliness and regret such longevity brings. Ncuti brings great joy to the part but also pathos, his performance elevated the poor Space Babies episode and here he shines in an episode so close to 5/5 for me.
My only criticism of the episode is that I don't care for fourth wall breaking and that I needed a reason for the final twist, not just because it's a passable pun. I enjoyed the song and dance routine but I need an in universe reason for it to happen, where did the dancers come from? Did the Doctor organise that whole extravagancer or did some othe Toymaker related entity manipulate reality?
Still small quibles, bring on Mr Moffat's booming return!
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Post by shallacatop on May 13, 2024 8:41:08 GMT
Seems there was more filmed scenes of Cilla Black which got cut: I’m assuming more content with The Beatles was cut too. George & Ringo didn’t have any lines, but they made a fuss of the band appearing and the DWM interview suggested the guys spent a lot more time together. My understanding is that the script made it explicit about why the song and dance routine happened at the end, but it’s not clear in the episode. Add to that RTD mentioned the opening of the series would have a significant scene where the Doctor chooses a song from the jukebox, which was missing. Seems to have been Push the Button by Sugababes given how many times the phrase is mentioned in Space Babies for seemingly no reason. I wonder if these were intended to be 60 minute episodes originally and cut down? If the script releases and Target novelisations are adding additional content that’s one thing, but if they’re clarifying things on screen, then that’s an issue with the actual screened episode. |
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Post by sherlock on May 13, 2024 8:52:30 GMT
Seems there was more filmed scenes of Cilla Black which got cut: I’m assuming more content with The Beatles was cut too. George & Ringo didn’t have any lines, but they made a fuss of the band appearing and the DWM interview suggested the guys spent a lot more time together. My understanding is that the script made it explicit about why the song and dance routine happened at the end, but it’s not clear in the episode. Add to that RTD mentioned the opening of the series would have a significant scene where the Doctor chooses a song from the jukebox, which was missing. Seems to have been Push the Button by Sugababes given how many times the phrase is mentioned in Space Babies for seemingly no reason. I wonder if these were intended to be 60 minute episodes originally and cut down? If the script releases and Target novelisations are adding additional content that’s one thing, but if they’re clarifying things on screen, then that’s an issue with the actual screened episode. Plus they don’t seem to keep track of what they’re cutting. The Doctor mentioned telling Ruby about the Toymaker when they first met…but he didn’t. In the script of Church on Ruby Road he did (and think novelisation too) but not in the actually aired episode! |
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Post by theillusiveman on May 13, 2024 8:52:33 GMT
Oh, dear God, please take away RTD's pen. What the hell was that? How do you write a Beatles story without any Beatles songs? By barely having them in it, apparently. (Or, y'know, plot.) Did Ringo have any lines? Leaving aside the too-many-gods problem which RTD2 looks set to have, there was no particular reason why the Maestro was defeated. And as for Jinkx Monsoon - ye gods, did somebody think Eric Roberts was underacting? I was looking forward to having a Broadway star on the show, but there was nothing about this performance that struck as being particular merited. And as for the self-indulgent padding of the song-and-dance sequence at the end.. why? Why? WHY?! Nice to see Cilla, though. Shame they couldn't find anybody who sounded like her. (Or looked like the Beatles, for that matter)
They really missed out not having a reference to The Common Men.
The billboard on top of the building was for Chris Waites and the Carollers, which was the Hon. Aubrey Waites' original band before taking on the stage name of John Smith.
Surprised they didn’t get Sheridan smith to play Celia |
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Post by timleschild on May 13, 2024 9:09:18 GMT
Definitely think a 60 minute format would have worked better, no real reason for it not to be given the deal is with Disney. Then again that would have meant more Cilla!
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Post by shallacatop on May 13, 2024 11:49:15 GMT
I’m assuming more content with The Beatles was cut too. George & Ringo didn’t have any lines, but they made a fuss of the band appearing and the DWM interview suggested the guys spent a lot more time together. My understanding is that the script made it explicit about why the song and dance routine happened at the end, but it’s not clear in the episode. Add to that RTD mentioned the opening of the series would have a significant scene where the Doctor chooses a song from the jukebox, which was missing. Seems to have been Push the Button by Sugababes given how many times the phrase is mentioned in Space Babies for seemingly no reason. I wonder if these were intended to be 60 minute episodes originally and cut down? If the script releases and Target novelisations are adding additional content that’s one thing, but if they’re clarifying things on screen, then that’s an issue with the actual screened episode. Plus they don’t seem to keep track of what they’re cutting. The Doctor mentioned telling Ruby about the Toymaker when they first met…but he didn’t. In the script of Church on Ruby Road he did (and think novelisation too) but not in the actually aired episode! Also the novelisation is the only place where it’s referenced that the Goblins are part of the Toymaker’s legions. Might not be a big deal on the surface, but it’s things like this which are reinforcing the arc we’re heading towards. |
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Post by timleschild on May 13, 2024 12:04:39 GMT
Plus they don’t seem to keep track of what they’re cutting. The Doctor mentioned telling Ruby about the Toymaker when they first met…but he didn’t. In the script of Church on Ruby Road he did (and think novelisation too) but not in the actually aired episode! Also the novelisation is the only place where it’s referenced that the Goblins are part of the Toymaker’s legions. Might not be a big deal on the surface, but it’s things like this which are reinforcing the arc we’re heading towards. A shame. Most viewers won't bother with the novelisations. |
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Post by christmastrenzalore on May 13, 2024 12:32:34 GMT
Oh, Great. I imagine I'll be spending the rest of my life making that mistake over and over and over again. Just pretend John Hurt was Warteenth. |
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Post by martinw8686 on May 13, 2024 14:55:26 GMT
Can anyone tell me why the song and dance routine at the end? What was the original scripted reason it happened?
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Post by bethhigdon on May 13, 2024 15:46:05 GMT
Can anyone tell me why the song and dance routine at the end? What was the original scripted reason it happened? I suspect it's foreshadowing for the Susan Twist character, who will tie into the meta arc that's currently happening.
That said, I have a sneaking suspicion that this episode was meant to come later in the season and that the fourth wall elements were meant to build up to that bigger break.
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Post by Chakoteya on May 14, 2024 8:31:04 GMT
Also the novelisation is the only place where it’s referenced that the Goblins are part of the Toymaker’s legions. Might not be a big deal on the surface, but it’s things like this which are reinforcing the arc we’re heading towards. A shame. Most viewers won't bother with the novelisations. I fear that the novelisations are another way of trying to make money - by including snippets of info that most people will miss. For utter completists only. |
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Post by timleschild on May 14, 2024 10:11:15 GMT
A shame. Most viewers won't bother with the novelisations. I fear that the novelisations are another way of trying to make money - by including snippets of info that most people will miss. For utter completists only. Possibly, I do like it when they expand on some of the characters but they shouldn't include missing info crucial to the plot that got excised from the original episode. |
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Post by Kestrel on May 14, 2024 12:02:25 GMT
I don't know that it's necessarily crucial. Didn't the Toymaker say that, because of him, the boundaries/rules/whatever of the universe were weakening, allowing things to enter that otherwise wouldn't? And then we see the Goblins, a very fantastical set of creatures who clearly don't belong in the Doctor Who universe -- aren't we meant to assume that they're only on Earth because of the Toymaker?
I suppose we can't infer that they're, you know, legions under his command or anything... but do we need to know that? Does it add anything to the story?
I'm more concerned/confused by a mythological structure that places the personification of music as somehow subordinate to the personification of games.
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Post by timleschild on May 14, 2024 13:57:46 GMT
I don't know that it's necessarily crucial. Didn't the Toymaker say that, because of him, the boundaries/rules/whatever of the universe were weakening, allowing things to enter that otherwise wouldn't? And then we see the Goblins, a very fantastical set of creatures who clearly don't belong in the Doctor Who universe -- aren't we meant to assume that they're only on Earth because of the Toymaker? I suppose we can't infer that they're, you know, legions under his command or anything... but do we need to know that? Does it add anything to the story? I'm more concerned/confused by a mythological structure that places the personification of music as somehow subordinate to the personification of games. This highlights a bigger problem with this era. The Devils Chord is Season 1 Episode 2. Space Babies the previous episode was the jumping on point so why reference stuff that happened prior to that? Why in fact start with a Doctor & companion that have been introduced in an episode prior to the beginning of this season? Was The Church on Ruby Road Season 1 Episode zero? |
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Post by shallacatop on May 14, 2024 15:05:00 GMT
It seems pretty clear The Devil’s Chord was never intended to be episode 2 originally and was brought forward to coincide with Eurovision, not that did anything to help in any way. The odd six month gap suggests it’s meant to be later on and Boom is being emphasised as featuring Ruby’s first trip in the future and where she really comes into her own as a lead; no way that wouldn’t have happened on their presumably many adventures between SB & TDC.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2024 15:29:47 GMT
“Numbers are not shrinking,” Jinkx Monsoon has said about the number of Doctor Who fans. “For every transphobic, racist, bigoted Doctor Who fan that we lose this season, there are going be three to five new fans who are coming in for the representation. So to those fans — who are not fans — I say, ‘Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.'”
Is Jinks saying anyone who doesn't like the current series is a transphobic, racist bigot? If so, I'm not sure this is a way to promote the BBC's Saturday teatime family sci-fi series. Is it? Is it a hate crime not to like Doctor Who now - aren't these dangerous words to use concerning what is, after all, a television show? I don't like to think of myself guilty of any of the above, but I really don't enjoy these new 'stories', so I guess I must be. I'll do the show a favour: I'm done with it, so hopefully those 'three to five new fans' will boost the ratings. I would say that I hope the next showrunner and regime will have a more balanced, less aggressive way of selling the show, but I honestly don't think there'll be a show by the time RTD buggers off. He brought it back so brilliantly all those years ago - what on Earth has happened? I've never been so grateful for Big Finish.
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Post by bethhigdon on May 14, 2024 16:05:06 GMT
“Numbers are not shrinking,” Jinkx Monsoon has said about the number of Doctor Who fans. “For every transphobic, racist, bigoted Doctor Who fan that we lose this season, there are going be three to five new fans who are coming in for the representation. So to those fans — who are not fans — I say, ‘Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.'”
Is Jinks saying anyone who doesn't like the current series is a transphobic, racist bigot? If so, I'm not sure this is a way to promote the BBC's Saturday teatime family sci-fi series. Is it? Is it a hate crime not to like Doctor Who now - aren't these dangerous words to use concerning what is, after all, a television show? I don't like to think of myself guilty of any of the above, but I really don't enjoy these new 'stories', so I guess I must be. I'll do the show a favour: I'm done with it, so hopefully those 'three to five new fans' will boost the ratings. I would say that I hope the next showrunner and regime will have a more balanced, less aggressive way of selling the show, but I honestly don't think there'll be a show by the time RTD buggers off. He brought it back so brilliantly all those years ago - what on Earth has happened? I've never been so grateful for Big Finish.
I think Jinx is talking about a certain type of so called fan who makes bigoted content/reviews for revenue/clicks, and stirs shit up just for the sake of it.
Any large, long running fandom has this problem, and doctor who is no stranger to it. Nor does it start with RTD2 era.
There's a difference between saying you just don't vibe with the current era or have legitimate critiques about the writing/presentation and posting that in a forum, like here, or on a personal blog... and being a paid journalist for the Daily Mail whining about how this classic British institution has gone woke and is now ruined forever because of the gays (conveniently ignoring how the show was always progressive for it's time) on X-twitter in order to generate controversy to sell more newspapers.
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Post by Alastair on May 14, 2024 16:27:21 GMT
Is Jinks saying anyone who doesn't like the current series is a transphobic, racist bigot? I think it’s fairly clear the “transphobic, racist, bigoted” comment is referring to… transphobes, racists and bigots. Please keep the context in mind, as I worry that’s easily lost in the quoting. If you have a free moment, I do urge you to read the original interview response to see where she’s coming from. This is not an unprompted statement or attack; she was specifically asked by Variety if she “had a message for the trolls” who reacted to Ncuti’s casting with racist, homophobic comments. She was (benignly) set up by a journalist to address the most hateful people at the very bottom of the barrel, for which “zero tolerance” is just about the only acceptable response. And all that aside: god knows she’d have had enough exhausting experiences with actual bigotry to be beating around the bush with indirect implications on fandom. I doubt Jinkx has a horse in that race. If you feel such a statement has been made elsewhere by RTD or the BBC, that’s fair enough. I’ve always found your passion for good Doctor Who stories on this forum infectious, bonehead; I’m genuinely sorry to hear these new episodes haven’t struck the same chord for you, and that they won’t be getting the same wonderful write-ups you’ve given Big Finish’s finest. But one actor’s response to a leading interview question really shouldn’t be a part of that conversation. :-) |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2024 21:44:26 GMT
“Numbers are not shrinking,” Jinkx Monsoon has said about the number of Doctor Who fans. “For every transphobic, racist, bigoted Doctor Who fan that we lose this season, there are going be three to five new fans who are coming in for the representation. So to those fans — who are not fans — I say, ‘Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.'”
Is Jinks saying anyone who doesn't like the current series is a transphobic, racist bigot? If so, I'm not sure this is a way to promote the BBC's Saturday teatime family sci-fi series. Is it? Is it a hate crime not to like Doctor Who now - aren't these dangerous words to use concerning what is, after all, a television show? I don't like to think of myself guilty of any of the above, but I really don't enjoy these new 'stories', so I guess I must be. I'll do the show a favour: I'm done with it, so hopefully those 'three to five new fans' will boost the ratings. I would say that I hope the next showrunner and regime will have a more balanced, less aggressive way of selling the show, but I honestly don't think there'll be a show by the time RTD buggers off. He brought it back so brilliantly all those years ago - what on Earth has happened? I've never been so grateful for Big Finish.
Couldn't have put it better myself, I'm calling it now this series will be axed after series 2. All about ticking boxes now in many shows not about good storytelling or interesting characters anymore. I'll be sticking to Big Finish for my Doctor Who fix the series ended with The Giggle for me. |
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Post by bethhigdon on May 14, 2024 22:37:44 GMT
“Numbers are not shrinking,” Jinkx Monsoon has said about the number of Doctor Who fans. “For every transphobic, racist, bigoted Doctor Who fan that we lose this season, there are going be three to five new fans who are coming in for the representation. So to those fans — who are not fans — I say, ‘Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.'”
Is Jinks saying anyone who doesn't like the current series is a transphobic, racist bigot? If so, I'm not sure this is a way to promote the BBC's Saturday teatime family sci-fi series. Is it? Is it a hate crime not to like Doctor Who now - aren't these dangerous words to use concerning what is, after all, a television show? I don't like to think of myself guilty of any of the above, but I really don't enjoy these new 'stories', so I guess I must be. I'll do the show a favour: I'm done with it, so hopefully those 'three to five new fans' will boost the ratings. I would say that I hope the next showrunner and regime will have a more balanced, less aggressive way of selling the show, but I honestly don't think there'll be a show by the time RTD buggers off. He brought it back so brilliantly all those years ago - what on Earth has happened? I've never been so grateful for Big Finish.
Couldn't have put it better myself, I'm calling it now this series will be axed after series 2. All about ticking boxes now in many shows not about good storytelling or interesting characters anymore. I'll be sticking to Big Finish for my Doctor Who fix the series ended with The Giggle for me. Aren't they already filming the third season?
Like even if the series doesn't get renewed after the second is done, I'm pretty sure Bad Wolf is contracted for at least three seasons.
Either way, regardless of ones personal feelings about the current era, realistically even if it doesn't work out with Disney, the BBC will just move it to another streaming platform. The show isn't just going away unless the Beeb can't find someone to replace RTD when he's done, or if the BBC itself goes under... which given how traditional television is dying that's not wholly out of the realm of possibility.
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